Frank Zappa: Hot Rats |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20474 |
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Posted: October 10 2018 at 04:24 |
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An entry level accessible Zappa album or a jazz rock pioneer?
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irrelevant
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I like Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo more, but Hot Rats is cool. Little Umbrellas is an underrated little tune.
Hey, does the recent CD reissue on Zappa records sound better than the Rykodisc version?
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hellogoodbye
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The Zappa Records Cd or vinyl sound different. The last song " It must be a camel" sounds fantastic.
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irrelevant
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^ Worth a replacement buy? Been happy with the other ones so far. The mix on the Rykodisc CD sounds weird to me but I haven't heard much of the original LP mix. I'm hoping it'll give me a new appreciation of the album.
Edited by irrelevant - October 10 2018 at 06:51 |
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Fischman
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Both. And therein lies much of its brilliance. It is accessible Zappa. It is accessible fusion. It is intricate music, but you need not be a proghead or fusion freak to appreciate it. It is one of those rare albums that spans both worlds. Zappa could be a full blown esoteric, or he could make for a wider audience and he could do either exceptionally well.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20474 |
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^
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dwill123
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"Hot Rats" contains one of Frank's best studio guitar solos, "Willie the Pimp". |
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The.Crimson.King
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I have over 40 FZ albums, but have never liked Hot Rats...
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ForestFriend
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I don't think I'd say it's my favorite Zappa albums, but still very good. The composed pieces are really great, but I'm not a big fan of The Gumbo Variations - just too much jamming for me.
Edited by ForestFriend - October 11 2018 at 15:59 |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Same, and exactly. I also agree with whomever said it has some of his best guitar solos. Willie The Pimp! I also feel it was early jazz rock at its finest.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
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hieronymous
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2012 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 308 |
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The relationship between composition and improvisation is a fascinating aspect of Zappa's music. Some pieces are completely composed, sometimes he would improvise something and then turn that into a compositional element. One example being a solo in "Big Swifty" (I think that's the track - something from Waka/Jawaka) - Zappa improvised a solo, then the trumpet player notated it and overdubbed horns to play it in unison. Or "The Dangerous Kitchen" from The Man From Utopia, where Steve Vai transcribed a half-spoken/half-sung vocal piece (improvised?). Xenochrony is another example where he takes recorded improvisations and overlays them on each other. Maybe one way to look at it is manipulation of improvised material so that it becomes "composed" in a way - different than the "spontaneous improvisation" of Can for example. I personally think that Gumbo Variations is very improvised - not structured in the same way as "Peaches En Regalia" for example. "Son of Mr. Green Genes" is a great example of a combination of the two - composed piece with jamming solos in the middle, then back to the composition at the end - kind of standard in a way but nice - and kind of "jazz" in the sense of how traditional jazz pieces are often structured (head/improvised solos/head) even if it doesn't sound "jazz" in the sense of swing/instrumentation/etc. Or as the master himself said - "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny!"
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
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Right on indeed for so much here. I'd like to just point out that 'structured' and 'composed' are not the same thing. Composing is a pre-planning sort of thing. Structuring music, however can happen on the fly. Jazz improvisation is typically very highly structured. Jazz improvs, traditionally at least, closely follow chords as they develop within a progression. In other words, what counts as a "good" note depends on what the current chord is, what is referred to as chord tone soloing. This a special challenge to the Jazz soloist to attend to exactly when any particular chord changes and know instantly how to adjust note selection. This is not how Rock and Blues traditionally work. This is at least in one part a type of structure I'm referring to. Gumbo Variations, to my ear, uses standard chord tone soloing. Later Zappa improvs frequently follow a Modal Jazz approach, an innovation in Jazz that incidentally brings it closer in approach to Blues and Rock. Also, the lead work in Gumbo Variations interacts constructively with the drumming aspect of the rhythm. The drumming develops through many different, dare I say, variations throughout the piece and the guitar lead finds a variety of ways to be responsive to it. Edited by HackettFan - October 12 2018 at 21:34 |
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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micky
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yes sir... Willie the Pimp sits at #5 on my list of blow thy speaker songs ever...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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SteveG
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Edited by SteveG - October 13 2018 at 07:51 |
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HackettFan
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Edited by HackettFan - October 13 2018 at 09:29 |
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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hieronymous
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Interesting insight about the relationship between "structured" and "composed" - maybe structure could be the variable on the continuum between composed & improvised. Completely composed versus completely free improv would be the extreme ends, with compositions that leave room for improv (blues, etc.) and more structured improv (traditional jazz) somewhere in the middle. Also wanted to add - Max Bennett, the bassist on all tracks on Hot Rats except Peaches En Regalia, passed away in September. I am a bassist and love his playing on this album. I started playing along with the album for the first time this past year (though I've been listening to it since the '80s) and the bass playing is really stellar. He was in the Wrecking Crew and played with LA Express, including on several Joni Mitchell albums. Here are a couple of quotes: On a musical blind date with Frank Zappa, Bennett was the principal bassist on the latter’s 1969 album Hot Rats. "I knew his name," Bennett recalled in 2007, “but not much else. The sessions went very well and he wanted me to join his band. I just couldn’t give up my studio work, though.” - https://jazztimes.com/news/bassist-max-bennett-dies-at-90/ Fans of more radical music may recognize him as the primary bassist on Frank Zappa’s classic Hot Rats album. “I was not familiar with Zappa’s music. Our paths never crossed,” Bennett told The Observer. “I was never a big fan of avant garde music in that sense. It was while I was working in the studio, what was it, 1967, I think? And I got a call from John Guerin. He said, ‘Get your stuff over to TTG’—that was in Hollywood—‘I got a double session for you with Frank Zappa.’ So we get there and we worked two double sessions for two nights. And that was the album, that was ‘Hot Rats.’” - http://jazznewsyoucanuse.com/2018/09/in-memoriam-max-bennett-2/ Edited by hieronymous - October 18 2018 at 12:32 |
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hieronymous
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I could be wrong about the structure thing though - perhaps it is just another axis? I'm thinking of some of the "20th Century Classical" stuff where there may be structure but within each section the playing is improvised - think John Cage, Terry Riley, etc. It's potentially important though because of the influence of 20th Century Classical on Zappa.
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dr wu23
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If I could only keep one Zappa it would be the one.
The first album by him (or the Mothers) that really stuck with me...we played this one constantly in college and usually when in an altered state.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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