Prog World Cup - Round Of 16: Rush- Bubu

Morningrise wrote: M27Barney wrote: Bubu? Nowhere as good as Nexus...so Rush by a few parsecs! I used to love Nexus. Nowadays I could name at least 10 argentinian prog bands more exciting and interesting than them. Bubu is one. Invisible, Crucis, Alas, MIA, Factor Burzaco, Honduras Libregrupo, Bauer, Las Orejas Y La Lengua, Aquelarre, Pez...

The burden of proof... I do wish that when people would makes such claims of one thing being better than another that they would at least try to present a compelling argument to back up the assertion. It's a weird argument anyway as presented.

Nexus is much better than Bubu.
Therefore, Rush is way better than Bubu.

One might add the premise that Rush is better than Nexus even if it wasn't directly said to make the conclusion more logical.

Since this is a world cup, for me Rush is not the best Canadian Prog band, but that's only according to my taste. There are many from Quebec that I place over Rush, but when choosing Bubu because I prefer the music (not making claims of objective quality), I didn't think, say, Dionne-Bregent or Miriodor are better than Rush, therefore Bubu must be better than Rush.

I don't like what I have heard of Nexus, but I love Bubu -- not that individual taste should matter when it comes to claims of quality. What I've heard of Nexus I haven't found remotely as interesting, adventurous, nor as complex as Bubu's Anabelas. Other than both Bubu and Nexus are from Argentina, I'm not really understanding why the two are even being compared. Musically, they both seem very different beasts.   To me that's like comparing Henry Cow to Marillion. I wouldn't see the audiences as largely being the same or the musical approach warranting particular comparison. MIA makes more sense to compare with Bubu as I hear similarities between Anabelas and Cornonstipicum, and they came out in the same year..

I would be interested to hear unbiased musical arguments for why Nexus is definitely better than Bubu -- I might learn something about music theory. Is the musicianship at a higher level with Nexus, is the composition more advanced? Is it more original and adventurous? I won't claim that Bubu is better than Nexus, I can only say that it's much better for me from what I have heard of Nexus.

M27Barney wrote: Apparently bubu is Swahili for mute...no Spanish translation. Worst name in prog history?

Now you're just being really silly.

Rush is a "popper" which you can buy in Canada and elsewhere (an alkyl nitrite inhaler used for a high, a head-rush particularly amongst youth, and has been used as a sexual stimulant. A friend of mine into Rush used to sniff Rush (so he was a Rush-head in more ways than one).

From wikipedia:

Poppers is a slang term given broadly to the chemical class called alkyl nitrites, that are inhaled for recreational drug purposes, typically for the "high" or "rush" that the drug can create. Poppers have also been historically used for sexual encounters among the youth, including in the gay community.[1] If you trace the bottle of amyl (a type of alkyl nitrite) through late 20th-century history, you trace the legacies of gay culture on popular culture in the 20th century. We wouldn't have had rave, disco or club culture as we know it today without the gay community.[1] Poppers were part of club culture from the mid 1970s disco scene to the 1980s, and the 1990s rave scene made their use popular again.[2] Popper use has a relaxation effect on involuntary smooth muscles, such as those in the throat and anus.[3][4] Most widely sold products include the original amyl nitrite (isoamyl nitrite, isopentyl nitrite), but also variants such as isobutyl nitrite, isopropyl nitrite (2-propyl nitrite, increasingly, after EU ban of the isobutyl form). In some countries, to evade anti-drug laws, poppers are labelled or packaged as room deodorizers, leather polish or tape head cleaner.

See https://paganpressbooks.com/jpl/EVANSPOP.HTM

Is an Argentinian band having a name that means mute in Swahili really worse than a Canadian band which has been popular with youth sharing a name with a dangerous product used by youth to get high in Canada? Still, better Rush than Gas Huffer, I guess (an American band). I'm not blaming them, but I think that Rush is a horrible name for a band. "Bubu" is mostly harmless, even if a little "owie".



Edited by Logan - October 17 2018 at 11:34

Had you even listened to Anabelas in full before casting your vote and making such apparent claims?   It was expressed as objective, and I know that musical merits can be analysed objectively within frameworks, and we can discuss audience reception aesthetics.

The best opinions are well-informed opinions, and opinions can be nuanced and go beyond personal taste, but you stated something in the form of an objective fact. Preferring something is not the same as saying it's better, or at least it need not be. I like things that I consider to be bad by various metrics. And if all you can comment on is about something that sounds like an orchestra warming up, then I wonder if you have listened attentively enough with an open mind and open ears, and if you have you been exposed to a wide enough variety of music. There is beauty there that you just can't or don't appreciate, and I can say the same of much music that doesn't appeal to me. There is definite contrast in Anabelas, and I do believe that the music is more nuanced than your comments.

What about the names? If you're trying to make a case for Bubu being a bad name, at least try to be even-handed by mentioning that Rush is a popper. Or do you condone sniffing? I find it strange that you haven't commented on that aspect.

Of course it doesn't bother me in the least that you don't like Bubu, and I would have no issue with you saying that it's not to your taste. I don't like Nexus from what I have heard because I don't like the style of music. I generally prefer RIO to Neo, Krautrock to Symph, and Prog Folk to Prog Metal, to each his or her own tastes, and do take me down a notch if I ever seem to be ridiculing other people's tastes or claiming that what I like is better.

Looking at your reviews, I see we have very different tastes (I dislike much of that music that you have reviewed, but that doesn't mean that I think my tastes are better or that the music I listen to is better -- merely better for me). I would expect Nexus and Rush to appeal more to a person who likes what you like than Bubu, but when making seemingly objective claims of better, I also think that one should try to distance oneself from one's biases.

So, instead of me saying, for instance, Art Zoyd is better than Spock's Beard (and Spock's Beard is the stupider name, and I do like Star Trek), I would rather say, I prefer Art Zoyd.   That's clearer and more polite in that it doesn't come across as so dismissive.

If you were more into Avant Prog, I do think that you would like Bubu more, and if I were more into hard rock, I would probably like Rush more, and if I were more into Neo-Prog and Symphonic Prog than I would probably like Nexus more.

Anyway, this seems like a pretty low-hanging fruit type issue to even try to discuss.

I always think that if you recorded a room of chimpanzees that had several hundred musical instruments in it. Avant garde music lovers would consider the product as genius...Or perhaps the emperor isn't nude after all?

I have that CD. It didn't grab me on a first spin...perhaps I can revisit. I was expecting it to grab me from second one, given it's rating.....That may have worked against it...

M27Barney wrote: The guitar part that followed the symphony warm up was an improvement. But like you said,my bag is symphonic prog. Weird avant garde is not my bag. The name skit has seemingly got up your nose. I was merely surprised that a Spanish speaking band choose an African word for their name. Or perhaps that is just coincidence? Rush is a good name for a prog metal band. I am quite certain that bubu haven't produced a track opening classic like the 2112 overture...I rest my case.

It's not your name skit that got up my nose, it's Rush (the popper) which gets up people's noses. I took your Bubu comment as humorous (had it been about a band you loved, it might seem funnier to some), but I thought that the Rush reference would interest you. I don't know when the Rush inhalant came out or if the band were then aware of it, probably coincidental, but they must have become aware of it. For that reason I genuinely find it a poor name. I never thought that the band Rush were into drugs -- they were more into kimonos -- but I sure did know plenty of Rush fans into drugs, including the inhalant and anal spray Rush (well, I didn't personally know the ones who use it anally to my knowledge).

My favourite track off Anabelas is the second one.   While I listen to a fair amount of strange, jarring music, I also listen to a lot of classical and baroque music, modal jazz, and loungy music. I appreciate the contrast in Bubu, which is not to say that you should. As for Symphonic Prog, there's plenty of classic stuff that I do like, and plenty of stuff such as The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard that I find not to my tastes on the whole.

Prog music is eclectic, and tends to draw on many sources, and so I imagine most of us like a wide variety of musical expression. EDIT: Better yet, I like to think that we can appreciate diverse musical expression without necessarily enjoying it.

Edited by Logan - October 17 2018 at 14:07

Poll's over. Rush advances to quarterfinals. Final score: 28-19.

bubu