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Zac M View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Any Nucleus fans?
    Posted: September 17 2005 at 18:57
Hi, I was curious if anyone out there besides me was a fan of Ian Carr and Nucleus.  I got into them because I found out some of the members of Nucleus went on to form Soft Machine, and now I like them a lot and am trying to get all of their albums.  If you are a fan too, what's your favorite album or track or actual member of the group?

Discuss.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 19:00
Why did this get moved????

Nucleus is in the archives, I've written an album review for Elastic Rock.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 19:02

Oh yes, I wonder why they aren't here yet!!!!

One of my first intro to prog, I loved and still love Solar Plexus, Elastic Rock, Labyrinth, Roots, We'll talk about it later!!!!!!

I'm not alone then, there's someone else who likes this beautiful jazz - rock - prog oriented band!!!!

Ian Carr is a genius. I'm listening to his "Belladonna" album..

___BYE___

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 19:03
Ah they are there?!?!?! I didn't know....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 19:05
Originally posted by CrazyDiamond CrazyDiamond wrote:

Oh yes, I wonder why they aren't here yet!!!!

One of my first intro to prog, I loved and still love Solar Plexus, Elastic Rock, Labyrinth, Roots, We'll talk about it later!!!!!!

I'm not alone then, there's someone else who likes this beautiful jazz - rock - prog oriented band!!!!

Ian Carr is a genius. I'm listening to his "Belladonna" album..

___BYE___



They are here thats why I am upset that this thread got moved.  By the way I just got a vinyl copy of Belladonna and have ordered Labyrinth.  We definitely share the same sentiments and that's a good thing; Ian Carr and Karl Jenkins are both geniuses!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 19:05
Originally posted by CrazyDiamond CrazyDiamond wrote:

Ah they are there?!?!?! I didn't know....


Yeah, I asked for them to be added and now there here....although the discography isn't complete..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 19:11
Yeah! I have Elastic Rock and We'll Talk About It Later. Great albums both! I love their elegant and calm jazz-rock style.

I was thinking about getting Live In Bremen next. Is it any good?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 19:14
Actually I haven't heard that one yet, but I can recommend Belladonna.  Allan Holdsworth and Roy Babbington play on it.  It's really good!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 19:18
^ Ok, well at least Hugues Chantraine seems to like it. That's usually a good sign! Thanks, I'll check out Belladonna as well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 20:52
Originally posted by meurglysIII meurglysIII wrote:

  I got into them because I found out some of the members of Nucleus went on to form Soft Machine,
Discuss.


The original line up of Soft Machine, and  in fact until just after Robert Wyatt left (which I guess takes you to line-up 8 or 10)  had little and more likely nothing to do with Nucleus, except share a strong interest in jazz rock - a period of 5 to 6 years. Ian Carr came from the British 60's avante gard/free jazz movement as did several others who passed through Nucleus (but  Elton Dean too worked briefly in the British avante jazz scene, as the recent Graham Collier release on Cuneiform Records reveals, although before that worked in the British R'n'B scene with the likes of  Reg Dwight backing Long John Baldry*) . However, with Wyatt's departure and then Hopper's there was indeed the occasional transfusion of fresh blood into Machine from Nucleus. All will be detailed in Graham Bennett's Machine biography Out Bloody Rageous, out in the very near future.

*Reg Dwight asked Dean & Baldry if he could borrow their forenames and so became Elton John.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 20:54
Originally posted by WiguJimbo WiguJimbo wrote:

Yeah! I have Elastic Rock and We'll Talk About It Later. Great albums both! I love their elegant and calm jazz-rock style.

I was thinking about getting Live In Bremen next. Is it any good?


Live In Bremen is  freer jazz than the studio albums would suggest, harking back to Carr's work in the 60's. But will provide another dimension to Nucleus's output
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2005 at 20:55
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by meurglysIII meurglysIII wrote:

  I got into them because I found out some of the members of Nucleus went on to form Soft Machine,
Discuss.


The original line up of Soft Machine, and  in fact until just after Robert Wyatt left (which I guess takes you to line-up 8 or 10)  had little and more likely nothing to do with Nucleus, except share a strong interest in jazz rock - a period of 5 to 6 years. Ian Carr came from the British 60's avante gard/free jazz movement as did several others who passed through Nucleus (but  Elton Dean too worked briefly in the British avante jazz scene, as the recent Graham Collier release on Cuneiform Records reveals, although before that worked in the British R'n'B scene with the likes of  Reg Dwight backing Long John Baldry*) . However, with Wyatt's departure and then Hopper's there was indeed the occasional transfusion of fresh blood into Machine from Nucleus. All will be detailed in Graham Bennett's Machine biography Out Bloody Rageous, out in the very near future.

*Reg Dwight asked Dean & Baldry if he could borrow their forenames and so became Elton John.


I'll need to pick up that book when it comes out.  Didn't know that about Dean and Baldry, interesting...Also, I do like Soft Machine post-Hopper, Wyatt, and Ratledge.  I think that Karl Jenkins is an extremely gifted composer and musician.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2005 at 09:32

Originally posted by WiguJimbo WiguJimbo wrote:

^ Ok, well at least Hugues Chantraine seems to like it. That's usually a good sign! Thanks, I'll check out Belladonna as well.

Thanks Jimbo!

What a fine pupil you make!

Actually Nucleus became a breeding ground for Soft Machine ! I counted up to ten musos that played in Nucleus before becoming Machinists. I did not count one doing the reverse!

I may need help to complete their discography though!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2005 at 14:23
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by WiguJimbo WiguJimbo wrote:

^ Ok, well at least Hugues Chantraine seems to like it. That's usually a good sign! Thanks, I'll check out Belladonna as well.

Thanks Jimbo!

What a fine pupil you make!

Actually Nucleus became a breeding ground for Soft Machine ! I counted up to ten musos that played in Nucleus before becoming Machinists. I did not count one doing the reverse!

I may need help to complete their discography though!



Sean Trane, I am in the process of acquiring all of their albums (waiting for Labyrinth and Under the Sun to arrive in the mail shortly).  Soon, I will have them all and will most likely be able to help you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2005 at 14:50
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Actually Nucleus became a breeding ground for Soft Machine ! I counted up to ten musos that played in Nucleus before becoming Machinists. I did not count one doing the reverse!

I may need help to complete their discography though!



Sean

You need to see BBC's Jazz Britannia, the documentary run earlier this year covering  jazz development in the UK since 1950. The second part covers the roots and development of UK jazz rock, and I was surprised at the start point of some the players who became famous in the 70's.

Good point about the one way flow from Nucleus to Machine. One of several things I heard listening to the Hux records 2 2-CD set releases Soft Machine BBC, was how much Machine started to sound like Nucleus through the 70's. This is less evident in the studio compilation Out Bloody Rageous, the compiler perhaps over doing the Riley-influenced tunes in his selection.

I think Wyatt (e.g. End of an Ear) and Hopper (e.g. 1984) had some influence Henry Cow and the RIO movement  for instance.  But then between the RIO/free jazz/avante rock Hugh Hopper moved to Isotope and then Stomu Yamashta's Band. BTW there is a sort of parallel here with Stomu Yamashta and Brand X (in a couple instances via Suntreader) - although I have wondered why Gary Boyle didn't become Brand X's guitarist?? And Ratledge and Jenkins went on to produce some very successful advertising jiggles, before inventing "cross-over classics".

However, a bit of an  enigma. Why did Chris Spedding shift out of Nucleus, and after doing some nice blues rock with Free's Andy Fraser in Sharks, be responsible for sounding Sex Pistols'  first recorded riff............................?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2005 at 15:01
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Actually Nucleus became a breeding ground for Soft Machine ! I counted up to ten musos that played in Nucleus before becoming Machinists. I did not count one doing the reverse!

I may need help to complete their discography though!



Sean

You need to see BBC's Jazz Britannia, the documentary run earlier this year covering  jazz development in the UK since 1950. The second part covers the roots and development of UK jazz rock, and I was surprised at the start point of some the players who became famous in the 70's.

Good point about the one way flow from Nucleus to Machine. One of several things I heard listening to the Hux records 2 2-CD set releases Soft Machine BBC, was how much Machine started to sound like Nucleus through the 70's. This is less evident in the studio compilation Out Bloody Rageous, the compiler perhaps over doing the Riley-influenced tunes in his selection.

I think Wyatt (e.g. End of an Ear) and Hopper (e.g. 1984) had some influence Henry Cow and the RIO movement  for instance.  But then between the RIO/free jazz/avante rock Hugh Hopper moved to Isotope and then Stomu Yamashta's Band. BTW there is a sort of parallel here with Stomu Yamashta and Brand X (in a couple instances via Suntreader) - although I have wondered why Gary Boyle didn't become Brand X's guitarist?? And Ratledge and Jenkins went on to produce some very successful advertising jiggles, before inventing "cross-over classics".

However, a bit of an  enigma. Why did Chris Spedding shift out of Nucleus, and after doing some nice blues rock with Free's Andy Fraser in Sharks, be responsible for sounding Sex Pistols'  first recorded riff............................?


These are the times when I wish I lived in Britain.   Six is where the Nucleus feel can be felt IMO.  After Seven, the Nucleus feel was certainly still there, but Soft Machine started to lose focus, although I still enjoy the albums from this period.  I'm glad that you noted Jenkin's "jingles"; I didn't know Ratledge did them as well.  Jemkins really is a great instrumentalist and composer and doesn't always get the recognition he deserves.  By the way, have you heard Soft Machine's new album (with Dean, Holdsworth, etc...)?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2005 at 03:58
Originally posted by meurglysIII meurglysIII wrote:

Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Actually Nucleus became a breeding ground for Soft Machine ! I counted up to ten musos that played in Nucleus before becoming Machinists. I did not count one doing the reverse!

I may need help to complete their discography though!



Sean

You need to see BBC's Jazz Britannia, the documentary run earlier this year covering  jazz development in the UK since 1950. The second part covers the roots and development of UK jazz rock, and I was surprised at the start point of some the players who became famous in the 70's.

Good point about the one way flow from Nucleus to Machine. One of several things I heard listening to the Hux records 2 2-CD set releases Soft Machine BBC, was how much Machine started to sound like Nucleus through the 70's. This is less evident in the studio compilation Out Bloody Rageous, the compiler perhaps over doing the Riley-influenced tunes in his selection.

I think Wyatt (e.g. End of an Ear) and Hopper (e.g. 1984) had some influence Henry Cow and the RIO movement  for instance.  But then between the RIO/free jazz/avante rock Hugh Hopper moved to Isotope and then Stomu Yamashta's Band. BTW there is a sort of parallel here with Stomu Yamashta and Brand X (in a couple instances via Suntreader) - although I have wondered why Gary Boyle didn't become Brand X's guitarist?? And Ratledge and Jenkins went on to produce some very successful advertising jiggles, before inventing "cross-over classics".

However, a bit of an  enigma. Why did Chris Spedding shift out of Nucleus, and after doing some nice blues rock with Free's Andy Fraser in Sharks, be responsible for sounding Sex Pistols'  first recorded riff............................?


These are the times when I wish I lived in Britain.   Six is where the Nucleus feel can be felt IMO.  After Seven, the Nucleus feel was certainly still there, but Soft Machine started to lose focus, although I still enjoy the albums from this period.  I'm glad that you noted Jenkin's "jingles"; I didn't know Ratledge did them as well.  Jemkins really is a great instrumentalist and composer and doesn't always get the recognition he deserves.  By the way, have you heard Soft Machine's new album (with Dean, Holdsworth, etc...)?

Now that this thread got putback in the main forum

I think that you are right about Six being the most-Nucleus-like! It is probably why it is my favorite if the midlle era Machine.

But I beg to differ about them losing focus after this !

They just went into another metamorphosis (the fourth after the psych larva , the Canterbury catterpillar , the jazz fusion cocoon and now the jazz-rock fusion butterfly)

Listen to Bundles or Softs, when the guitars make a comeback after a lenghty absence - since Daevod Allen had left in the alcyon days. Both albums are excellent!

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2005 at 06:44

Originally posted by meurglysIII meurglysIII wrote:

By the way, have you heard Soft Machine's new album (with Dean, Holdsworth, etc...)?

Softworks: Abracadabra ? Check my review out. There is also an excellent boot recorded at Seattle about 10 weeks after the studio recording, plus a bonus track from Third, which AH fluffs up badly because he wasn't prepared and couldn't readily busk it. Unsurprisingly Holdsworth is not with the latest incarnation, Soft Machine Legacy - (which strictly shouldn't be in the Soft Machine section) - who are Softworks minus Holdsworth plus Etheridge - live recording made in Holland in May this year and out very soon on the French label Musea Live At Zaadam; it has a couple of tunes from Abracadabra.

Check out the Etheridge period Soft Machine just released as British Tour '75, recorded at Nottingham University 30 years ago come this November, and has several tunes from Bundles (so you can get to compare Etheridge and Holdsworth). The president of MoonJune, who manage Soft Works and now Soft Machine Legacy, tells me that there is another Etheridge period Machine album in the pipeline, recorded at Radio Bremen in 1975.

 

BTW any of you come across the excellent Polysofts, a French Soft Machine tribute band. One album out with Hopper and dean guesting on track - with lead taken by trumpet and sax, (amongst other things), there are some clues to what Ian Carr (although I have suggested elsewhere Miles Davis!!!) might have sounded with Machine!

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2005 at 18:03
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by meurglysIII meurglysIII wrote:

Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by Sean
Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Actually Nucleus became a breeding ground for Soft Machine ! I counted up to ten musos that played in Nucleus before becoming Machinists. I did not count one doing the reverse!

I may need help to complete their discography though!



Sean

You need to see BBC's Jazz Britannia, the documentary run earlier this year covering  jazz development in the UK since 1950. The second part covers the roots and development of UK jazz rock, and I was surprised at the start point of some the players who became famous in the 70's.

Good point about the one way flow from Nucleus to Machine. One of several things I heard listening to the Hux records 2 2-CD set releases Soft Machine BBC, was how much Machine started to sound like Nucleus through the 70's. This is less evident in the studio compilation Out Bloody Rageous, the compiler perhaps over doing the Riley-influenced tunes in his selection.

I think Wyatt (e.g. End of an Ear) and Hopper (e.g. 1984) had some influence Henry Cow and the RIO movement  for instance.  But then between the RIO/free jazz/avante rock Hugh Hopper moved to Isotope and then Stomu Yamashta's Band. BTW there is a sort of parallel here with Stomu Yamashta and Brand X (in a couple instances via Suntreader) - although I have wondered why Gary Boyle didn't become Brand X's guitarist?? And Ratledge and Jenkins went on to produce some very successful advertising jiggles, before inventing "cross-over classics".

However, a bit of an  enigma. Why did Chris Spedding shift out of Nucleus, and after doing some nice blues rock with Free's Andy Fraser in Sharks, be responsible for sounding Sex Pistols'  first recorded riff............................?


These are the times when I wish I lived in Britain.   Six is where the Nucleus feel can be felt IMO.  After Seven, the Nucleus feel was certainly still there, but Soft Machine started to lose focus, although I still enjoy the albums from this period.  I'm glad that you noted Jenkin's "jingles"; I didn't know Ratledge did them as well.  Jemkins really is a great instrumentalist and composer and doesn't always get the recognition he deserves.  By the way, have you heard Soft Machine's new album (with Dean, Holdsworth, etc...)?

Now that this thread got putback in the main forum

I think that you are right about Six being the most-Nucleus-like! It is probably why it is my favorite if the midlle era Machine.

But I beg to differ about them losing focus after this !

They just went into another metamorphosis (the fourth after the psych larva , the Canterbury catterpillar , the jazz fusion cocoon and now the jazz-rock fusion butterfly)

Listen to Bundles or Softs, when the guitars make a comeback after a lenghty absence - since Daevod Allen had left in the alcyon days. Both albums are excellent!

 



I didnt really mean that they lost focus; I meant that, as you said, they evolved.  Also, Softs is probably my favorite Soft Machine album, especially out of the Jenkins era.   I like Bundles as well, but just don't seen to listen to it as much.  I am overjoyed that this thread got put back into the Prog Music Lounge, which is where it should have been in the first place


Edited by meurglysIII
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2005 at 18:19
Got Elastic Rock, In Flagrante Delicto, Labyrinth, Live in Bremen, a live set from 1973, Roots, The Pretty Readhead Live, Under The Sun, We'll Talk About It Later and love every minute of every performance. Favorite of the albums would of course be We'll Talk About It Later and favorite member would be Ian Carr. (duh)

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