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presdoug View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 04 2018 at 18:20
I did not get much response on my thread for Triumvirat's debut, so am trying one with their most successful album, their third studio effort, from 1975, Spartacus. Easily rock music's greatest concept album, a story based on the famous gladiator who led a revolt against what was a decadent and cruel Imperial Rome. It is one of my top three albums of all time, and a winner, instrumentally, vocally, lyrically, and conceptually. Lead vocalist/Bassist and 6 string guitarist the late Helmut Koellen shines here, especially, and is more than amply aided by Juergen Fritz's astounding keyboard work, and Hans Bathelt's powerhouse drumming. A real tour de force! What do others think of this album?


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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2018 at 18:47
Bought this one in the 1st couple of years of discovering prog.  Still love it and give it a spin from time to time, though I like Illusions on a Double Dimple better Wink 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2018 at 19:36
Spartacus and Old Loves Die Hard represent the zenith of Triumvirat's viability as a prog rock band — being their own band, rather. The first two albums are ELP wannabe records, to varying degrees. But Spartacus is exceptional and does boast a magnificent title track.

Now, is it "easily" rock's best concept album? It's a very good one, but there are many fantastic concept albums out there, and while Spartacus may be better than a good number of them, it's still a debate that would take a few pages of discussion to wring out, were there enough interested parties.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 07:57
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Spartacus and Old Loves Die Hard represent the zenith of Triumvirat's viability as a prog rock band — being their own band, rather. The first two albums are ELP wannabe records, to varying degrees. But Spartacus is exceptional and does boast a magnificent title track.

Now, is it "easily" rock's best concept album? It's a very good one, but there are many fantastic concept albums out there, and while Spartacus may be better than a good number of them, it's still a debate that would take a few pages of discussion to wring out, were there enough interested parties.
I don't really see the first two albums of Triumvirat as being derivative of ELP, really; there is a unique atmosphere or "vibe" I get from their music right from the start that is, dare I say, different, from other groups, and it has it's own special appeal. 
        Apart from the album's instrumental prowess, the thing that I think makes Spartacus the greatest rock conceptual epic is the lyrical writing; the lyrics are very "to the point", and not a single word or phrase is out of place or wasted, and you really get the story of Spartacus in a convincing and "real life" way. 
              Triumvirat were the first German rock band to make a strong impact in North America, with Spartacus cracking the Top 30 at position 27, and it is an example of how music is truly the universal language, and breaks down barriers between cultures and society.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 08:14
I always loved "March to the City", which got a lot of airplay in Montreal back in the day.  So did the title cut, which I found a bit too frenetic but enjoyed it well enough depending on my mood.  I don't recall hearing the rest of the album, so I should give it a listen.  I did enjoy "Old Loves Die Hard" very much, as I felt it struck a pleasant balance between complex and accessible and I think it was more their own sound.  Doug, what do you think of Rolling Stone including "Illusions on a Double Dimple" in the top 50 prog albums of all time list?  It's great that they included Triumvirat but would you agree with that choice?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 09:06
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

I always loved "March to the City", which got a lot of airplay in Montreal back in the day.  So did the title cut, which I found a bit too frenetic but enjoyed it well enough depending on my mood.  I don't recall hearing the rest of the album, so I should give it a listen.  I did enjoy "Old Loves Die Hard" very much, as I felt it struck a pleasant balance between complex and accessible and I think it was more their own sound.  Doug, what do you think of Rolling Stone including "Illusions on a Double Dimple" in the top 50 prog albums of all time list?  It's great that they included Triumvirat but would you agree with that choice?
I think it is great that it is listed, and I would agree with that choice, Ken, as I feel it is their best album, and was the first one that turned heads for them, internationally, like in America, and places like Brazil and Argentina.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 13:08
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Triumvirat were the first German rock band to make a strong impact in North America, with Spartacus cracking the Top 30 at position 27, and it is an example of how music is truly the universal language, and breaks down barriers between cultures and society.  
 

That's awesome, but Kraftwerk beat them to the punch a year earlier when Autobahn (still regarded as a Krautrock record) reached No. 5 in the Billboard Top 200. I take no pleasure in saying that, nor in pointing out that Tangerine Dream, one of my all-time favorite bands, didn't mount a North American tour till several years after Kraftwerk's 1975 US tour (thanks to Phonogram backing them following the success of Autobahn).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 14:22
yes I thought Autobahn was a bit earlier, but wasn't sure if perhaps Illusions was an earlier chart record, though obviously it didn't reach #5!  Actually, didn't Nektar's "remember the Future" hit the US top 10 in 1973?  Now, their leader was British but the rest of the band was German I believe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 14:35
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

yes I thought Autobahn was a bit earlier, but wasn't sure if perhaps Illusions was an earlier chart record, though obviously it didn't reach #5!  Actually, didn't Nektar's "remember the Future" hit the US top 10 in 1973?  Now, their leader was British but the rest of the band was German I believe
 

They were all Brits: Roye Albrighton, Taff Freeman, Derek Moore and Ron Howden. They did form the band in Germany, but they're regarded as English prog.

But yes, Remember the Future and Down to Earth both charted in the Top 20/40 in '73-74.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 15:59
^thx!  Tongue
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 18:40
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Triumvirat were the first German rock band to make a strong impact in North America, with Spartacus cracking the Top 30 at position 27, and it is an example of how music is truly the universal language, and breaks down barriers between cultures and society.  
 

That's awesome, but Kraftwerk beat them to the punch a year earlier when Autobahn (still regarded as a Krautrock record) reached No. 5 in the Billboard Top 200. I take no pleasure in saying that, nor in pointing out that Tangerine Dream, one of my all-time favorite bands, didn't mount a North American tour till several years after Kraftwerk's 1975 US tour (thanks to Phonogram backing them following the success of Autobahn).
Illusions reached the Top 50 in America the year before Spartacus, but just barely, so Autobahn wins out, thanks for verifying that, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 18:45
Just the fact these albums charted in those days is a win!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 19:05
Old Loves Die Hard charted in America in 1976, but just reached position 85 in the album charts. Under-rated, and a fantastic record, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 20:54
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Old Loves Die Hard charted in America in 1976, but just reached position 85 in the album charts. Under-rated, and a fantastic record, though.
 

I agree!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tszirmay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 21:59
A treasured addition back in the 70s and I still go it often. Very often! The aura is spectacular, the playing is dizzying in technique and emotion. In my Top 10 all time . Enough said
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tszirmay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 22:01
BTW, Old Loves Die Hard, Illusions and even Pompeii were masterful. The debut ain't bad either!
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 07:20
Hi,

Pres ... are you trying to lock me up into listening to these things again?

At least, my roomie at the time actually played these albums on the air ... something that can not be said for most of the "progressive" wannabee's.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 08:07
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Now, is it "easily" rock's best concept album?
 
All personal opinion, obviously.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 11:08
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Pres ... are you trying to lock me up into listening to these things again?

At least, my roomie at the time actually played these albums on the air ... something that can not be said for most of the "progressive" wannabee's.
That, I am, mosh; if it will encourage yourself and other people on PA  to listen to Triumvirat, then I am doing what I set out to do.
       
       That is interesting that your roomie played Triumvirat; I was kind of late to the party on this band, never having heard them until 1985, and it is fascinating for me to read and hear about what was going on with them in their hey day in the seventies.
              I have never actually heard them on the radio in my entire life, which is a shame.


Edited by presdoug - November 06 2018 at 12:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 11:11
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

A treasured addition back in the 70s and I still go it often. Very often! The aura is spectacular, the playing is dizzying in technique and emotion. In my Top 10 all time . Enough said
Well stated, man! I never really tire of Spartacus.
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