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Can: Monster Movie

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SteveG View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 12 2018 at 03:55
Another impressive debut album. This time from the highly regarded krautrock pioneers.

Edited by SteveG - December 14 2018 at 14:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2018 at 04:31
Father Cannot Yell - my favorite opening tune on a debut ever* - Yoo Doo Right - not far from my favorite ending. Sounds just as "revolutionary" a rock album to my ears as Velvet & Nico, Stooges or Black Sabbath's 1st or Never Mind the Bollocks.... really

*& Kobaïa+ come to think of it... many more

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2018 at 06:27
Mary Mary, Mary Mary Mary.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2018 at 06:26
Hi,

I'm not sure that this album is the one that showed us all what CAN became, even though there are some things that seem to suggest that we might have something after all. The long cut on Side 2 of the album, supposedly came out of many hours of playing around, which of course was what happened to TAGO MAGO, a much superior album. But the strong free spirit of Damo, seemed to add something that was more vital and interesting than what Malcolm seemed to be bringing to the group, even if we have no idea what he is saying most of the time, and sometimes there are no words at all. 

The main thing in this album is Malcolm  Morley, and I am not sure that he was a good mix for the band as he definitely brought an American touch to their work, when in the next version they started saying they did not want to do "western sounding" anything. The change/addition of Damo Suzuki, helped define the band for good, and its spirit was not exactly alive in this first album of theirs.

I think it is a nice album to have, if you are a collector of CAN material, since their "Unfinished" stuff and other "Attic" material is probably better than a lot of the stuff that we have heard, but I am not sure that we will find a lot more now. With many of the folks passed on, I'm not sure that the one left has the energy for it, and Damo, seems to be completely desensitized from the CAN thing, even if he plays the pieces/parts he was on.

For my tastes, it's not a great album, but a nice one, and I had it on my collection since the days of "imports" ... Ege Bamyasi was first, Soundtracks next and then Future Days came out ... and those 3 dominated things until Soon Over Babbalooma which got played by Guy Guden to the tune of using about 3 or 4 copies of the album, and then Landed, which was a great fun album, but most rockers can't handle the mix of all the weirdness.

First heard of the band in the film DEEP END, by Jerzy Skolimowski. You did not see the band, but they were doing MOTHER SKY, for a couple of minutes during a scene. We went right after the albums at that time, but could not find the import "Soundtracks", and eventually Ege Bamyasi came out and the rest is history!


Edited by moshkito - December 14 2018 at 18:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2018 at 14:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2018 at 15:29
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I'm not sure that this album is the "representative" of what CAN became, 

I'd be curious Pedro if you thought there was one that was...  it was a continual evolution as the truly greats tend to do.  As I've posted I've thought Soon over Babaluma represented the culmination of  all they had worked up to to that point but the next one, also a great one, however was a jump in a different direction.  I don't think there was a single represenatiive album that represenated all that Can was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2018 at 18:47
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I'm not sure that this album is the "representative" of what CAN became, 

I'd be curious Pedro if you thought there was one that was...  it was a continual evolution as the truly greats tend to do.  As I've posted I've thought Soon over Babaluma represented the culmination of  all they had worked up to to that point but the next one, also a great one, however was a jump in a different direction.  I don't think there was a single represenatiive album that represenated all that Can was.

I'm going to "re-word" that ... it wasn't exactly what I wanted to say, since there were things in it that CAN went on to do, like the long rehearsals made for pieces of music and such ... I was wanting to say something that had more strength and difference than what Malcolm brought to the table in my estimation, which was a bit more conventional than what Damo brought to the mix, which, of course, set CAN on fire right then.

I think that I felt not as excited as I had, when we had heard the next 3 albums BEFORE we even found this one, as an import. SOUNDTRACKS we already knew had one far out cut that Guy wanted on the air now kind of thing. And then EGE BAMYASI (American release btw ... United Artists, I think it was) showed up out of the blue, and we went right after TAGO MAGO. And of course, the following year FUTURE DAYS appeared, and ... we finally found a copy of MONSTER MOVIE, which, when listened to in this order, instead of the original order of their existence, has a tendency to not be as interesting an album at all, though it's still CAN and valuable. 

That's the best I can explain this ... but this chronology takes in account the fact that IMPORTS were a head ache when it comes to arriving ... as an example, I could never get ZEIT, or ATEM, until after the ENGLISH pressing of PHAEDRA, that we got BEFORE the American release, which was quite late by comparison, I suppose because Virgin and American distributors did not think the album was going to be that good, or that well received. Same thing with Klaus Schulze, and I do not recall having been able to get at least two of the early albums, before BLACK DANCE and PICTURE MUSIC.

To my memory, almost all of these albums started appearing from 1974 on for a good pair of years, until the "import" thing began falling out within the next 5 years for the most part as smaller distributors started taking over ... and there are some stories in EUROCK about many European bands that got lost in this shuffle,, btw. 

Thus, some things were not heard in a way, that would have been more correct, according to their chronology.


Edited by moshkito - December 14 2018 at 18:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2018 at 19:48
Jaki IS the monster in this movie
Just listen around the half-way mark of Yoo Doo Right. He’s going nuts !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2018 at 03:18
Thank you for this thread...I have decided to start my perusal of Can with Future Days, instead (it is conveniently in "full album" mode on youtube) but will get around to the debut. Can almost remind me of Soft Machine in places-which is great as I like that band a lot-and I find myself able to "get into the groove" of what they are doing. I am gong to hear all of their classic period albums; when did that period end for the band? Did they alter their signature sound, as so many bands ended up doing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2018 at 03:54
Anything up to and including the Babaluma album. From Landed, they changed their approach somewhat (more focus on quirky songs - Full Moon on the Highway, Half Past One...), though I love the later 70’s albums with Rosko Gee just as much. Flow Motion is the weakest, though has its moments. My opinions, of course. Loved Can for half my life so far.

Edited by Tom Ozric - December 15 2018 at 03:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2018 at 04:16
I love Landed too and kind of like their late 70's "crap" albums as well. Even Out of Reach has its glorious moments




Edited by Saperlipopette! - December 15 2018 at 04:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2018 at 05:04
Yes, yes - Out Of Reach ; Seven Days Awake and November
( always bloody editing for spelling mistakes...soz)

Edited by Tom Ozric - December 15 2018 at 05:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2018 at 06:27
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Thank you for this thread...I have decided to start my perusal of Can with Future Days, instead (it is conveniently in "full album" mode on youtube) but will get around to the debut. Can almost remind me of Soft Machine in places-which is great as I like that band a lot-and I find myself able to "get into the groove" of what they are doing. I am gong to hear all of their classic period albums; when did that period end for the band? Did they alter their signature sound, as so many bands ended up doing?

I would caution ANY listener to go after CAN for the "sound". I don't think that CAN is about the "sound" as much as it is about the quality of the expression and the feelings behind it, which is the point of "improvisations" ... to help add "meat and potatoes" to the main dialogue in the play ... and to help clean up various moments in rehearsal.

(Not to mention, that in the stage business, the sound, is almost only dealt with on the "afterwords" and has less effect on the immediate performance ... thus, for the sake of example, and clear with CAN, the "sound" is the AFTER, the players have finished ... and for the appreciation of this band, their work is NOT ABOUT THE SOUND ... it's about the players and their connection! This may not seem right with Damo, but it is, very clear and he is attuned to the band really well.!)


Comparing their "sound" from EGE BAMYASI to SOON OVER BABBALOOMA will make you go ... what? .... from something that comes off as a raw, hard core funk, all of a sudden you get something really soft and has the best sense of timing and feeling (the transition between the two long cuts is one of the prettiest things of all ... with the drums driving it, without ... just about ... playing them at all!

This last example shows the quality of the feeling and its development ... sort of like a director helping an actor and saying ... a bit more ... just a bit more ... a teeny bit more ... before letting out the big breath of air ... it is a very important moment, in terms of describing the quality of the band connection amidst their members and how much they seemed to have trusted each other ... to be able to get the very last millimeter's worth of emotion and feeling out of something as simple as ... a very light cymbal touch! I doubt, that Soft Machine EVER had anything that strong and tight, specially without Robert Wyatt, whose feeling and expression has always been the driving force of what was originally called "jazz" in their group, but in reality ... was something else ... that probably should not be described as "jazz", although its traditions seem to suggest it all closer to jazz than any other definition. AFTER, Robert, it's a different story and not the same band, EVER. Read Robert's book ... it's a magnificent piece of work, and explains Soft Machine in its early days very well. (Although it explains Syd Barrett EVEN BETTER!)

LANDED is a very good album and quite fun to listen to if you enjoy fun/funny/weird stuff ... the mixing and the combinations of the players allow for a lot of fun, crazy things to get done around silly lyrics, that made the album a very good listen, a very progressive one as if it had been one of those weird obtuse bands around those days, but it was CAN, with a bit more of the Holger touch from his first two solo albums, that if you do not know are MASSIVELY fun and exciting and totally far out to listen to. And its long cuts are major major major major exciting things, with visuals that throw lyrics in the trash, and I think this is where Holger figured out that you don't need lyrics ... and visuals also work ... and then LANDED played around with that concept. If you go after "lyrics", you will hate LANDED, but if you go after an experiment having fun with words, then, LANDED becomes a much bigger and better experience to enjoy ... far different from what Damo did, however ... you look back and wonder ... what's the difference? You didn't "get" or "understand" either of them ... 

Listen to CAN for its artist beauty and experimental drive and verve ... not for its "sound". You will lose the ability to enjoy CAN if all you hear is the sound, and MOTHER SKY, will send you back to listen to the RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS (who btw, did a version of Mother Sky when Karoli passed away!).


Edited by moshkito - December 20 2018 at 06:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2018 at 14:58
I love Monster Movie. It was very original at the time and I think it features some very characteristic Can elements, particularly the dominating rhythm, Jaki is indeed great here (not just here). However, it is straighter than the later material. This may have to do with Malcolm (who fits perfectly what happens here but is indeed not quite as outlandish as Damo), but I can also imagine that the guys were young and wild and on this one there was more "pure rock" played as contrast/rebellion against their more academic/intellectual influences (Stockhausen and Jaki's free jazz), whereas later they brought these influences in more consciously, which made their music richer. However when it comes to influence on New Wave and later music such as Post Rock, probably Monster Movies will still be on top of where people take cues from. The straightness and rawness of the album is really iconic; I'd probably also say that Tago Mago, Ege Bamyasi and Soon Over Babaluma are somewhat better albums, but Movie Monster is in a unique position and will always be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2018 at 15:03
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,
I think it is a nice album to have, if you are a collector of CAN material, since their "Unfinished" stuff and other "Attic" material is probably better than a lot of the stuff that we have heard, but I am not sure that we will find a lot more now. With many of the folks passed on, I'm not sure that the one left has the energy for it, and Damo, seems to be completely desensitized from the CAN thing, even if he plays the pieces/parts he was on.
 

Do you know the 2012 "Lost Tapes" triple album? I think it has some quite good material unheard before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2018 at 07:16
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,
I think it is a nice album to have, if you are a collector of CAN material, since their "Unfinished" stuff and other "Attic" material is probably better than a lot of the stuff that we have heard, but I am not sure that we will find a lot more now. With many of the folks passed on, I'm not sure that the one left has the energy for it, and Damo, seems to be completely desensitized from the CAN thing, even if he plays the pieces/parts he was on.
 

Do you know the 2012 "Lost Tapes" triple album? I think it has some quite good material unheard before.

Hi,

Thx ... looking for it right now ... seems to be one of the few things I do not have. Mostly after "CAN", I stayed with Holger and his endeavors that I felt were more interesting and fun to listen to ... the later "ambient" stuff was not as good for me, but I thought it was a step for him to do something else with it ... but his first 5 or 6 solo albums, and even the albums with David Sylvan, were exceptional ... and for my ears a total riot, and one can almost see how CAN was such a "crazy" band, but only Holger had it in his albums.

Interesting thought about that comment above, was Jaki bringing in what might be considered classical music elements, or at least modern music, when I thought that his best work was not to be defined as a drummer at all ... so to speak. When you hear the transition in the two long cuts on the album (hopefully the CD did not break them up ... I would be mad!!!!!!), you have several minutes of material, where the drums slowly wind up to NOTHING ... except a little tick, a little tack, a little touch here and there, and the timing for them, is unbelievable ... with nothing in between, but not seeing it as "music", but as an honest feeling, or touch .... or feel.

You can not teach that in schools ... you have to live through it and understand your part and work well enough, that you almost always want to expand/experiment with one little something or other somewhere, and it is not ... it is NOT ... related to the beat or time keeping of the affair ... it is related to the FEELING of the piece at that moment ... and this is the part that people think they can create on a DAW ... and you can't ... it's a living moment in time ... you can not "freeze" that moment in a DAW, and think you created something, since, at the moment you play it, it will feel differently than you thought ... and this is the part that defines CAN for me ... music that is "thought" about, and music that is "lived" through ... and their rehearsals, and it shows with Malcolm and Damo, are more about "living through" than they are about anything else ... and sometimes, some groups (same in theater) learn a certain cohesion between each other that makes for amazing productions and work ... perfect examples would be the English "Angry Young Men" scene, and 10 years later the West End (NT and RSC), and so on, and the amazing number of folks they brought us, and the kind of work they did ... almost all of it, having arrived through the magic of rehearsal and improvisation.

The hard part in all this is ... why was "pop music" late to the party? I know "rock music" did show up and it was then called "art music" (and similar) and later ... progressive), however, both rock music, and pop, and even jazz music since then ... have almost all of it been completely riff driven and sequence derived and processed to the better known ways, styles and designs for the better top ten/top 100 things around.

The individualistic nature of it all, helped create CAN at that time in the late 60's, which you can see in time ... but if this were done today, everyone here on PA would laugh, call it stupid, uneven and bizarre ... because of the lack of ability to listen/hear something so drastic and different, and a further inability to "resolve" what it is, when the lyrics are ... not the clue ... they are just a part of the whole. 

To me, this is the fallacy of a lot of "progressive" things, that the lyrics MUST TELL US what the whole thing is about, and in the end, this is not true, and shouldn't be ... since we all think and feel it differently anyway, but a top of the pops mentality prevents folks from seeing that, specially in a historical context, that many here think I am inventing, when all I am doing is seeing the theater, film, literature, around these bands ... and they are all doing the same thing the band was doing ... it's not my fault that London was not smart enough to create other arts around the punk scene to take it away from the laughing stock that they became, specially for making fun of a lot of music that was, and is still, revered as outstanding and very well written.

CAN, is a magnificent example of all the arts at the time ... you really think there is a difference between the famous improvisations by Klaus Kinski in a Werner Herzog film, and Damo's improvisations on TAGO MAGO or EGE BAMYASI? At the very least, you find out real quick how important it can be ... Werner Herzog was so enchanted with the insanity that Klaus created and he made it the last 20 minutes of AGUIRRE ... no script necessary! Damo and CAN, did the same thing ... those moments were too precious and valuable to be wasted ... and that is what most rock bands do, because they trust the DAW, and their thrashing, and not the rest of the life of the piece. And the lyrics tell you what they are about, of course ... hahahahahahha!
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