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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 01:59
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Chamber of 32 Doors still sends shivers down my spine whenever I listen to it.


Me too. Lovely song.

I go on a Genesis forum every now and then, and for some reason the track is almost universally disliked by folk on there, and broadly deemed to be the worst song on the album
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 02:13
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

I guess it's a good album, but for me a step down from the previous ones... and even more, for me it's got no sublime songs as the best ones from Gabriel's era. If this is the direction Gabriel was going to take the band, then I guess I don't really regret him leaving at the time he did. It's sort of an equivalent to The Wall from Pink Floyd's discography, but yet I easily get more enjoyment out of that one.

I always get the vibe that if Gabriel hung around for one more record, it probably wouldn't have been too pretty.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 06:11
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

I guess it's a good album, but for me a step down from the previous ones... and even more, for me it's got no sublime songs as the best ones from Gabriel's era. If this is the direction Gabriel was going to take the band, then I guess I don't really regret him leaving at the time he did. It's sort of an equivalent to The Wall from Pink Floyd's discography, but yet I easily get more enjoyment out of that one.

I always get the vibe that if Gabriel hung around for one more record, it probably wouldn't have been too pretty.


Hard to say, but if the Melody Maker center page interview about PG leaving Genesis, my take on it, was that he was disappointed with the reviews and the fans, and decided to go do something else.

Some of the material that he had on his first solo album, btw, has that Genesis sound/mix to it, which might have suggested that there was material that was ready to move forward past TLLDOB.

As I mentioned before, I think that the biggest problem during those days, was that some rock critics were on the war path against long anything, and it started, more or less, with CTTE and then was further enhanced by TFTO, and it also included AHM and Echoes. A lot of the reviews were upset that many bands were making it look like they were creating music for the sake of creating music, with no value to it whatsoever.

Time has been very kind to all of these pieces, and they are all remembered and appreciated, which tells you that some over eager fanboys had as much taste for music as they did dish-soap water! AND, it includes some comments by morons, calling TD "washing machine music", which no one, even here, ever said ... time out ... washing machines sound very different, so that guy is out of line and needed to get fired by Trump! Likewise, Rolling Stone, was also a magazine that did not like these big pieces and continued its tradition of only liking famous and hit music.

I don't think that anything following TLLDOB would be a downer or depressing ... it was created to be a stage show, but it didn't get its chance to go so far, and sadly, by that time, stage shows were on the way out (too expansive), with the exception of bands like PF, who continued that tradition, but in some cases they lost money on it, but they had already recouped it via sales, so they did not care!

Lastly, an artist, writer, painter, and even musician, has a right to express himself/herself ... it's weird that we sit here and say it could be depressing, and don't say that some of PH's lyrics ARE depressing, and sometimes strange, although in his later days, he makes a lot more sense. The work they do, is about ... not us ... not what we want ... and I find it strange that we still use that criticism for any of them ... so Picasso is disturbing (one picture anyway) and Bosch is not ... give it a break ... that comment is really not necessary!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 10:14
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Chamber of 32 Doors still sends shivers down my spine whenever I listen to it.


Me too. Lovely song.

I go on a Genesis forum every now and then, and for some reason the track is almost universally disliked by folk on there, and broadly deemed to be the worst song on the album


There are some very strange folk about
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 11:36
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

I guess it's a good album, but for me a step down from the previous ones... and even more, for me it's got no sublime songs as the best ones from Gabriel's era. If this is the direction Gabriel was going to take the band, then I guess I don't really regret him leaving at the time he did. It's sort of an equivalent to The Wall from Pink Floyd's discography, but yet I easily get more enjoyment out of that one.

I always get the vibe that if Gabriel hung around for one more record, it probably wouldn't have been too pretty.


Hard to say, but if the Melody Maker center page interview about PG leaving Genesis, my take on it, was that he was disappointed with the reviews and the fans, and decided to go do something else.

Some of the material that he had on his first solo album, btw, has that Genesis sound/mix to it, which might have suggested that there was material that was ready to move forward past TLLDOB.

As I mentioned before, I think that the biggest problem during those days, was that some rock critics were on the war path against long anything, and it started, more or less, with CTTE and then was further enhanced by TFTO, and it also included AHM and Echoes. A lot of the reviews were upset that many bands were making it look like they were creating music for the sake of creating music, with no value to it whatsoever.

Time has been very kind to all of these pieces, and they are all remembered and appreciated, which tells you that some over eager fanboys had as much taste for music as they did dish-soap water! AND, it includes some comments by morons, calling TD "washing machine music", which no one, even here, ever said ... time out ... washing machines sound very different, so that guy is out of line and needed to get fired by Trump! Likewise, Rolling Stone, was also a magazine that did not like these big pieces and continued its tradition of only liking famous and hit music.

I don't think that anything following TLLDOB would be a downer or depressing ... it was created to be a stage show, but it didn't get its chance to go so far, and sadly, by that time, stage shows were on the way out (too expansive), with the exception of bands like PF, who continued that tradition, but in some cases they lost money on it, but they had already recouped it via sales, so they did not care!

Lastly, an artist, writer, painter, and even musician, has a right to express himself/herself ... it's weird that we sit here and say it could be depressing, and don't say that some of PH's lyrics ARE depressing, and sometimes strange, although in his later days, he makes a lot more sense. The work they do, is about ... not us ... not what we want ... and I find it strange that we still use that criticism for any of them ... so Picasso is disturbing (one picture anyway) and Bosch is not ... give it a break ... that comment is really not necessary!

Great post and I agree! Some "critics" are worse than even the most stringent naysayer. I do recall reading somewhere, though, that the band was sick and tired of Gabriel's stage antics at this point. Some of the costumes were so massive they obstructed his ability to successfully reach the microphone on stage, and he'd be out of breath from their massive size alone. You can hear him struggling on some of The Lamb LIVE stuff.

None of this negates what you said, because I totally agree. There was something magical about that 1970-1975 lineup!

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 15:34
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

I guess it's a good album, but for me a step down from the previous ones... and even more, for me it's got no sublime songs as the best ones from Gabriel's era. If this is the direction Gabriel was going to take the band, then I guess I don't really regret him leaving at the time he did. It's sort of an equivalent to The Wall from Pink Floyd's discography, but yet I easily get more enjoyment out of that one.

Same for me...I like the earlier Genesis lp's better. It just doesn't click for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 18:22
^ doesn't click' sort of flies with a 40 minute lp... not a double album.. that crosses over into worst album (bad f**king idea man) territory. The only thing worse than making an album of boring music, along with a silly ridiculous concept is making it is a double album.

Genesis always had a problem with consistency.. previous albums had some 1st rate killer stuff.. but along with it came really cringe worthy stuff.. but on the Lamb..  they sort of forgot to include the killer 1st rate stuff to balance out the cringe worthy or simply just plain boring stuff.  That is why some, like me, do call it their worst album.  It was a sin man..against good musical tastes..  and God might forgive that sh*t. but not Big Mick and his heavy hitters. No sir...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richey Edwards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2019 at 03:48
This album never gets old. It's one of my favourites of all time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2019 at 04:04
The Lamb is hardly my fave Genesis album, but it's still up there in the top tiers of the band's whole catalogue.
here is what I would keep as must keep for an edited version
then there is the stuff that is somewhat worthy of inclusion

But I'm not keen on the rest (side 4 is fairly poor FTM or ITR)

Disc1
1. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (4:50)
2. Fly on a Windshield (4:23)
3. Broadway Melody of 1974 (0:33)

4. Cuckoo Cocoon (2:11)
5. In the Cage (8:15)
6. The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging (2:45)

7. Back in N.Y.C. (5:42)
8. Hairless Heart (2:13)
9. Counting Out Time (3:42)
10. The Carpet Crawlers (5:15)
11. The Chamber of 32 Doors (5:40)


Disc 2
1. Lillywhite Lilith (2:42)
2. The Waiting Room (5:24)
3. Anyway (3:07)
4. The Supernatural Anaesthetist (2:59)
5. The Lamia (6:57)
6. Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats (3:07)

7. Colony of Slippermen (8:13)
8. Ravine (2:04)
9. The Light Dies Down on Broadway (3:32)
10. Riding the Scree (3:57)
11. In the Rapids (2:26)
12. It (4:15)



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2019 at 04:25
^ Dude, Ravine is super.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2019 at 08:41
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

The only thing worse than making an album of boring music, along with a silly ridiculous concept is making it is a double album.
I love the concept sir Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2019 at 11:48
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Disc1
1. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (4:50)
2. Fly on a Windshield (4:23)
3. Broadway Melody of 1974 (0:33)

4. Cuckoo Cocoon (2:11)
5. In the Cage (8:15)
6. The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging (2:45)

7. Back in N.Y.C. (5:42)
8. Hairless Heart (2:13)
9. Counting Out Time (3:42)
10. The Carpet Crawlers (5:15)
11. The Chamber of 32 Doors (5:40)


Disc 2
1. Lillywhite Lilith (2:42)
2. The Waiting Room (5:24)
3. Anyway (3:07)
4. The Supernatural Anaesthetist (2:59)
5. The Lamia (6:57)
6. Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats (3:07)

7. Colony of Slippermen (8:13)
8. Ravine (2:04)
9. The Light Dies Down on Broadway (3:32)
10. Riding the Scree (3:57)
11. In the Rapids (2:26)
12. It (4:15)

I couldn't imagine The Lamb any different than it is as every song is required to advance the written story, with the exception of one:  Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats.  I always considered it filler, but as I looked at the running order listed above it finally hit me that Silent Sorrow fulfills a vital function as well.  PG needed that 3:07 to change into his Slipperman costume Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jayem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2019 at 14:48
This album contains material... Lamb for its great groovy "It seems they cannot leave their dream" sequence (too slow on the album, I find ); Lamia for how all those sumptuous ingredients were managed, Grand Parade, if played (on YT) at 1,25x  speed has a great summit at 2'24, one rare short possible escape from the everlasting scent of melancholy (in which the very similar Giant Hogweed's remains deeply, er, entangled) that prevents me from really enjoying (prog) Genesis.

Edited by jayem - January 12 2019 at 17:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2019 at 19:03
It's the greatest album ever. Six stars out of five. Side three ensures that sixth star. The Waiting Room to me is core of the weird sheet I conceive of as Progressive Rock. The musical continuity went beyond song and elevated to whole album in a way that was never successfully accomplished before.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2019 at 02:45
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

It's the greatest album ever. Six stars out of five. Side three ensures that sixth star. The Waiting Room to me is core of the weird sheet I conceive of as Progressive Rock. The musical continuity went beyond song and elevated to whole album in a way that was never successfully accomplished before.




6/5 stars, ha! Tongue

So you're one of the rare few whom prefer Lamb to SEBT?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2019 at 04:02
I prefer Lamb to SEBTP too.

I just listened to SEBTP yesterday, and to be frank I don't think it is quite the masterpiece it is often hailed as. I really like tracks such as "Firth of Fifth", but tbh. they kind of lose me on side 2.

On Lamb I think the compositions are more focused and much more tense, plus sonically I find it much more elaborate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2019 at 07:04
Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

I prefer Lamb to SEBTP too.

I just listened to SEBTP yesterday, and to be frank I don't think it is quite the masterpiece it is often hailed as. I really like tracks such as "Firth of Fifth", but tbh. they kind of lose me on side 2.

On Lamb I think the compositions are more focused and much more tense, plus sonically I find it much more elaborate.

"More Fool Me" has always kept it from a perfect 10/10 score for me. It's still a 9.9/10; the other parts more than make up for it for me. Something about Gabriel's delivery and timing on Lamb really stands out to me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2019 at 09:34
Still my favorite Genesis album.  Those that knock it clearly just don't get it.  I tend to have some really weird dreams that often make no sense and that is the what the concept is all about for me...
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OafofBread Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2019 at 14:30
Definitely my favorite Genesis album and album overall. Some truly brilliant musical moments, but Chamber of 32 Doors always stuns me. Such emotional intensity packed in a perfect prog package!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2019 at 20:36
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

I prefer Lamb to SEBTP too.

I just listened to SEBTP yesterday, and to be frank I don't think it is quite the masterpiece it is often hailed as. I really like tracks such as "Firth of Fifth", but tbh. they kind of lose me on side 2.

On Lamb I think the compositions are more focused and much more tense, plus sonically I find it much more elaborate.


"More Fool Me" has always kept it from a perfect 10/10 score for me. It's still a 9.9/10; the other parts more than make up for it for me. Something about Gabriel's delivery and timing on Lamb really stands out to me.


More Fool Me hasn't ever really been too much of a problem for me on Selling England... too short and inoffensive to really do much harm to the overall greatness of the album... it's Battle of Epping Forest the one that really ruins the album for me... too annoying and long to allow me to consider the album a true 5 star masterpiece.
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