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Canterbury Scene and fuzz pedals

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Polymorphia View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 13 2019 at 16:35
Does anyone know what fuzz pedals were used in the Canterbury Scene? For the organ sounds, but also for the guitar and bass sounds. In particular, the bass fuzz on Moving Gelatine Plates' The World of Genius Hans. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irrelevant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2019 at 06:28
I've sorta been wanting to know this too... 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2019 at 07:35
You guys may already have familiarised yourselves with this thread: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26649
In case you haven’t then read on fine gents!

A lot of Canterbury sounding bands from all over used a guitar amp for the organ so as they could use wah-wahs, flangers and other such tomfoolery.
The specific pedal in use on Genius Hans? Go fish

Edit: the above as well as lowry organs, farfisa through a fuzz box and fuzz pedals (no specifics!) were the things I picked up from that thread

Edited by Guldbamsen - January 14 2019 at 07:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2019 at 17:27
I'm looking for the specific fuzz box. Is it a fuzzface? Is it the superfuzz?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2019 at 18:45
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

I'm looking for the specific fuzz box. Is it a fuzzface? Is it the superfuzz?

I would probably check the websites for some of these bands, since at times they list the equipment for various members ... hopefully you will find it, but I caution you about one thing ... don't try to emulate ... create your own sound, even if you have to use a kitchen pot! For the most part it is some of the crazy stuff that many of them did to help create an identity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2019 at 20:45
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

I'm looking for the specific fuzz box. Is it a fuzzface? Is it the superfuzz?


I would probably check the websites for some of these bands, since at times they list the equipment for various members ... hopefully you will find it, but I caution you about one thing ... don't try to emulate ... create your own sound, even if you have to use a kitchen pot! For the most part it is some of the crazy stuff that many of them did to help create an identity.
Thanks for the tip, but if you listen to my music you'll hear there's little danger of it sounding like Caravan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 05:05
Always difficult to tell, as a lot of distortion can come from the amp as well. 

That's from 1972, so you've got everything from Fuzz Face's to Electro Harmonix's Big Muff. I'd personally bet on it being the Big Muff Pi, they were used a lot by bassists, but - well, difficult to tell. 

I tend to build my own pedals - usually Fuzz Dog ones - quite a few to chose from here if you're feeling experimental and have a soldering iron. ;-)

https://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/Fuzz/cat847125_2465698.aspx


Edited by Davesax1965 - January 16 2019 at 05:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 06:20
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

I'm looking for the specific fuzz box. Is it a fuzzface? Is it the superfuzz?


I would probably check the websites for some of these bands, since at times they list the equipment for various members ... hopefully you will find it, but I caution you about one thing ... don't try to emulate ... create your own sound, even if you have to use a kitchen pot! For the most part it is some of the crazy stuff that many of them did to help create an identity.
Thanks for the tip, but if you listen to my music you'll hear there's little danger of it sounding like Caravan.
 

CARAVAN, is probably the most "classical" sounding band of them all, and also the one that stood out … however, the really far out stuff is buried and out there … and I would probably spend more time listening to National Health, Matching Mole, Richard Sinclair (try Caravan of Dreams! (much later!)), and so many others around that time … they are really different and fun to enjoy. And the creative efforts are … totally out there somewhere in the galaxy, sometimes, but always fun! I did not keep up with Soft Machine after the 5th or 6th album to tell you more.

(BTW, I'm probably the only Caravan person you know that has at least 15 of their albums) … (I forgot how to count in my old age to tell you more about the Canterbury folks!)

(BTW2 … I find sounds in the strangest of places! So I went to the food bank and someone dropped … whatever it was … let me tell you that sound was … too late for a recorder, and I did not have my smartphone!) … I like walking down the street and record the sounds haphazard for 5 minutes … (and NOT LISTEN to it for several days) … then get in the car, go somewhere else … do it again … by the time you turn that stuff over, and goof around with it forwards, backwards, and different speeds, you have created a new sound effect, that you can use … for a lot of … who knows … ohh, by the way, try bathroom sounds backwards … they sound great!


Edited by moshkito - January 16 2019 at 06:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 08:17
I thought I'd include a picture of a tangent at this point. ;-) (Sorry. Mosh. ;-) )


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2019 at 12:08
I would also put my bet on the Big Muff and the Fuzz Face.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2019 at 02:18
They're the most likely. However, remember that this is an era where decent pedals and amps are scarce in the UK. You can get bassists using guitar pedals, there are obscure manufacturers coming up with a few designs which are only manufactured by the handful - you also get bassists using guitar amps, so unless you get an equipment list or a photo, you can never be completely sure. 

My money would really be on a Fuzz Face or Big Muff Pi. That covers most of the possibilities. However, of course, without knowing what the amp was, you're never going to absolutely replicate the sound. And even if you found an old bass valve amp, which it just might be, modern valves will sound different. And a modern one is probably biased correctly as well. Then there's the bass and string choice. ;-)

You may get close, but you probably won't get *exact*. Although that may not matter. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2019 at 02:23
Oh yes, another point. Polymorphia was talking about what might have been used for the organ and guitar as well. The answer is "probably the same pedal that the bassist was using". Equipment was pretty scarce in the early 70's. 

Even bands like Hawkwind would only have, say, a couple of Binson echo units, a couple of Dunlop wah pedals and a couple of generic "fuzz" pedals. That would be the lot, apart from some WEM / Marshall / Sound City / Vox amps. Amps in the UK were generally British made, getting something heavy shipped from the US was a bit of an expensive proposition, then. Matter of fact, even American guitars and basses were by no means universal, either. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - January 17 2019 at 02:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2019 at 02:26
This may help. Searchable pedals and effects made from 1960 - 69. Just alter the link to get it to, say, 1972. 

https://reverb.com/marketplace/effects-and-pedals?year_max=1969&year_min=1960
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2019 at 07:16
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

I thought I'd include a picture of a tangent at this point. ;-) (Sorry. Mosh. ;-) )



Sorry Dave ... the picture is not funny ... where are the laughs? (spoken through a space whisper thing that Gilly used!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2019 at 09:59
Well, perhaps the thread is actually about "do you know what equipment was used" rather than "let's all go off on a tangent and no we don't", Mosh........ ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2019 at 16:57
In most cases, it doesn't quite sound like a big muff to me. It sounds a little more "congested." I've been watching some Univox Superfuzz demos and I thinks that's definitely what the MGP bass player is using. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2019 at 04:43
That's interesting ! Could be. 

I was looking up the price of Fuzz Faces yesterday - ha haaaa, thousands for a pedal because it has the original germanium transistors in it. World's gone mad, a bipolar transistor junction transistor is basically a voltage controlled high speed switch. It's like saying a vintage car handles differently due to the wind resistance of the original paint. 

Just found this, a schematic for a Univox Superfuzz. The original transistors are 2SC828's - you can get new old stock ones for 99p each. There are six of them, standard NPN ones. You could actually use BC547's and save a few quid, there wouldn't be much of a difference. Pretty simple to build this on stripboard or design a simple PCB for it. Not that I'm volunteering, too much work to do on the modular synth !!! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2019 at 04:46
DA-90 germanium diodes, just use 1N4148's instead. Nothing else in there is unusual, all off the shelf bits. Modern resistors and capacitors are built to better tolerances than the 60's stuff as well. 

The schematic above would cost about £20-30 to build using a Chinese made PCB, including the price of a Hammond enclosure, foot switch, jacks, pots, knobs and a power inlet (I'd ditch the battery.) Nothing to it, this is "pre integrated circuit" days, of course. 

Quick PS, it'll be well out of copyright. ;-)

Edited by Davesax1965 - January 18 2019 at 05:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2019 at 04:49
And Polymorphia may be happy to know that clones are indeed available. ;-)

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/what-are-my-options-for-a-univox-super-fuzz.1796015/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2019 at 05:24
Here's a clone in action..... 


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