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Chicago vs Steely Dan
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Poll Question: Which band do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
26 [37.14%]
41 [58.57%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [4.29%]
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Points: 16188 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2019 at 15:49
^ Agreed. They had a few good albeit poppy moments later on(and the stone of sisyphus album is supposed to be pretty good) but the few immediately following Kath's death in particular are supposed to be pretty bad. 

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 30 2019 at 15:50
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Icarium View Drop Down
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And im not low-crediting Lee Loughnane nor Seraphine (spelling) but Pankow and Parazeider strikes me as more driving forces.

Though Robert is the central core. Though diminshed by the presance of David Foster.
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Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Duh!   The band was castrated when Terry shot himself in the head.  Without Terry's ballsy combo of soulful vocals and raw guitar, Chicago went full on wimp.Wink
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Originally posted by irrelevant irrelevant wrote:

Gotta be a bit of a rare sighting here. The considerably proggier band doing far worse than the other band in the poll. 

aye,,, but don't discount how things have changed man.  The condiderable more PROGRESSIVE band is running away with this.  

this .. and the community as it exists today is not what it once was circa 2006. It has fragmented... those that appreciate the same old same old regurgitation of what other had done, and often done better, or those blazing their own sounds and styles.

I was quite shocked by two sepeate but linked occurances when I added SD to the site. One the poisonous attacks by the traditionalists.. which thankfully occured in the collab zone as the one true maxim of PA's is if you pull a knife on the Big Mick..he pulls out out a shotgun.

but the other was the score of PM's I got thanking me for having the forward thinking to add them to the site.

are they prog.. hell no.. they aint' English and they didn't do boring side longs with hyper intellectual bullsh*te... but other than perhaps one other mainstream artist..  I don't consider any other to be more 'progressive'. They did their thing.. and only sold albums out of shear quality.... not painting music by the numbers which unfortunately past 1972 is where much of 'prog' went to. Prog.. but as progressive as my left toe.

As great as Chicago's early albums were... nothing was new there... SD was unique then..and still is today which is quite the accomplishment...  compliment.
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by irrelevant irrelevant wrote:

Gotta be a bit of a rare sighting here. The considerably proggier band doing far worse than the other band in the poll. 

Same thing in the APP vs Steely Dan poll where Steely Dan is also doing way better. 
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Hi,

CHICAGO for me. STEELY DAN was more about what the whole scene became, the hip this and that, than it was musically important and artistically valuable.

CHICAGO was there when I got my head bashed ... STEELY DAN was there later when I was at the university and its main role was for the stuff to be played while people got stoned and some girls got off on smoking a pipe shaped like a pen__ that had the words Steely Dan on it ... in case you don't know, you really should go find about its literary significance. It was a dildoe!

CHICAGO, had great music, and some improvisations, all the way to the 6th and 7th albums with longer cuts, and it is a shame that it is not considered "progressive" by our contingent here in PA, because all of its merits, from musicality to lyrical material, would all fit the definitions just fine, except that we wanted more solo's and CHICAGO could not invent any more solos as large a band as it was!

Sad to see the popularity of the poll choices ... but CHICAGO fits as one of the originals in the movement in music in the late 60's, and Steely Dan, was just another pop band, with much better music than most radio hits, but all in all, it was just pop music! CHICAGO does not fit that word'age, even though they had a few hits here and there ... hits that said something!
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 10044 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2019 at 04:55
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Steely Dan, was just another pop band, with much better music than most radio hits, but all in all, it was just pop music!
I'm so happy that this is completely irrelevant to me. The open minded music lover moshkito who is once again so sad on our behalf is actually the one who is close minded - not the other way around.
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Chicago became VERY pop in the 80s. To say that "pop" does not fit Chicago ignores a chunk of their discography and is quite frankly, laughable. 
Let's also not forget that Chicago even made a foray into disco. 
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Steely Dan, was just another pop band, with much better music than most radio hits, but all in all, it was just pop music!
I'm so happy that this is completely irrelevant to me. The open minded music lover moshkito who is once again so sad on our behalf is actually the one who is close minded - not the other way around.

It's a shame that you only profess your personal dislike for someone, and not discuss the music of the bands. I did so, and explained why I felt so ... by 1978 when I was at UCSB, CHICAGO was no longer an "important" band, although no one would argue with its level and fame ... and STEELY DAN was hip and funny and had kinda neat music, although to consider it musically great, I would rather refer to things like GENTLE GIANT and several other European bands.

STEELY DAN, was, almost exclusively a radio band, and it was well loved in the LA scene, because running around smoking a a steely dan pipe was very cool with the boys and girls at both high schools (to the upset chagrin of many teachers, btw!) and college folks, in those days ... and at the very least, CHICAGO did not quite come down to that level of idiocy for publicity's sake.

BTW, of course the comments are irrelevant to you ... you weren't around at that time, and knew what it was like to get your head bashed in Chicago in 1968 because a band did not show up, and how much CTA 1 ad 2 were important at that time, and find a couple of known friends gunned down for nothing.

Liking STEELY PAN is fine, but saying that it is more "important" or "valuable" than CHICAGO is a sad comment on the state of advertising and fame ... somehow the image of coolies going around smoking a cheap Steely Dan pipe, is not my image of great music whatsoever ... but you love the fashion behind it all, I bet!


Edited by moshkito - February 01 2019 at 06:42
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

Chicago became VERY pop in the 80s. To say that "pop" does not fit Chicago ignores a chunk of their discography and is quite frankly, laughable. 
Let's also not forget that Chicago even made a foray into disco. 
Chicago 16 is possibly my favourite Pop album, and the song Street Player, the only disco song I can tolerate. I can barely tolerate any SD song.
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Points: 10044 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2019 at 06:50
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Steely Dan, was just another pop band, with much better music than most radio hits, but all in all, it was just pop music!
I'm so happy that this is completely irrelevant to me. The open minded music lover moshkito who is once again so sad on our behalf is actually the one who is close minded - not the other way around.

It's a shame that you only profess your personal dislike for someone, and not discuss the music of the bands. I did so, and explained why I felt so
You're tastes and preferences is none of my business but you're general judging tone towards others you don't know just rubs me the wrong way. Its among my least favorite "qualities".
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

... running around smoking a a steely dan pipe was very cool with the boys and girls at both high schools (to the upset chagrin of many teachers, btw!) and college folks, in those days....


I hope those pipes did not resemble the Steely Dans in Burroughs' Naked Lunch. I could understand how distressing it would be to the teachers seeing the students running around smoking dildos (the Steely Dan III was steam powered, but a smoke powered one could be a later model)..
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Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


As great as Chicago's early albums were... nothing was new there... SD was unique then..and still is today which is quite the accomplishment...  compliment.

I don't agree. Those first two or three Chicago records were very progressive plus they were an american band. Not many(if any)US bands were doing what they were doing  with suites and what not. Plus the first two were both recorded before the release of King Crimson's first. I'm not saying Chicago were the first prog band but they were clearly doing stuff few others were. Steely Dan were playing jazz rock in a more poppy format but I don't think we can say they were doing stuff that was never done before where as early Chicago was at least closer to that if anyone was. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - February 01 2019 at 09:35
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Funny, I see things rather the opposite.

I love the early Chicago albums, but even the best ones have their spotty moments.  Meanwhile, the Dan's best albums are strong throughout.  

And I agree with Micky that the Dan was more unique.  Their brand of jazzy influenced intellectual rock has never been matched, or even seriously attempted.  They stand truly alone in the history of music.  
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Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

... running around smoking a a steely dan pipe was very cool with the boys and girls at both high schools (to the upset chagrin of many teachers, btw!) and college folks, in those days....


I hope those pipes did not resemble the Steely Dans in Burroughs' Naked Lunch. I could understand how distressing it would be to the teachers seeing the students running around smoking dildos (the Steely Dan III was steam powered, but a smoke powered one could be a later model)..
Surely referring to a bong of sorts ? I don’t think crack pipes were popular back then....however, lmfao at Moshi’s idea......
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

 
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

... running around smoking a a steely dan pipe was very cool with the boys and girls at both high schools (to the upset chagrin of many teachers, btw!) and college folks, in those days....


I hope those pipes did not resemble the Steely Dans in Burroughs' Naked Lunch. I could understand how distressing it would be to the teachers seeing the students running around smoking dildos (the Steely Dan III was steam powered, but a smoke powered one could be a later model)..
Surely referring to a bong of sorts ? I don’t think crack pipes were popular back then....however, lmfao at Moshi’s idea......

It was not an idea ... it was real. And it was worse at SBCC and UCSB, because many folks would just about walk to the class room with it in hand before putting it away. One professor at UCSB class I was in, threw out two kids that were smoking a SD pipe! A film class ... and of all weird things, it was going to have an early Godard film!

And this is the part that many folks here don't believe ... history has a way of hiding things. And while I do not dislike SD, I did find that their PR around them was a bit of a problem ... however, I am not sure that the Copyright thing about "steely dan" would necessarily apply to the band since the name belonged to something else, by a writer that died in 1997. Williams S. Burroughs. 


Edited by moshkito - February 02 2019 at 09:45
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Take me back...to Chicago.  

I like both bands quite a bit, but I've seen Chicago live at least 10 times and enjoyed the hell out of each and every one of those shows.  (Unfortunately all post-Terry Kath and Peter Cetera).
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Jason Scheff is a good singer also
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He is...but he is gone now too!
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Make mine Dan!  The band featured some amazing talent (Lee Ritenour, Jeff Baxter etc.) and fantastic writing. 

Both were excellent, and Chicago was a true band vs. recording project, but both dominated the airwaves in the 1970s.  Love 'em both. 
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