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fat poster View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 15 2019 at 15:00
Suppose you had to classify all progarchives artists into just three subgenres of your choosing. What three would you choose?

(I’m assuming that each of the three would be further subdivided. I’m also hoping that one of the three wouldn’t be “other” or “miscellaneous”—but maybe that’s not possible.)

/pq

Edited by fat poster - February 15 2019 at 15:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivertree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 16:12
... not sure yet if you're intending to offer some help for fulfilling such a relaunch ... Question
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fat poster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 16:15
Originally posted by Rivertree Rivertree wrote:

... not sure yet if you're intending to offer some help for fulfilling such a relaunch ... Question


Actually this is my first post here... is a relaunch of PA being considered?

Meanwhile, I really don’t know how I would answer the question, though I’m thinking about it and have one idea.

/pq
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 16:23
If there are only three sub-genres, I think they would have to be Symphonic Prog, Jazz Rock/Fusion, and Progressive Metal.
 
 
 
 
I was thinking about thinking but it really didn't get me very far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 16:57
Rock Progressivo Italiano, Canterbury Scene, Zeuhl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 17:03
SymphCantFus
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PostMetalKraut
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 17:06
Fantastic, Good and I don't care about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 17:31
Great Prog / Bad Prog and Prog-Metal   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 17:35
Three is pretty much impossible. I think the minimal you can do is 7:

Symphonic (including RPI, Neo, and eclectic/heavy)
Psych/Space (including Kraut & electronic)
Jazz/Fusion (including Canterbury)
RIO/Avant (including zeuhl)
Prog Metal (including all three prog metal subs PA has now)
Prog-Folk (including Indo/Raga)
Post Rock (including...well just Post Rock, although I guess some of the post-metal could probably go here too)


I also wouldn't be opposed to another category that just represents 'modern' (of whatever time it comes from) prog (basically the eclectic sub we have here), but I'm comfortable lumping all of those (like KC, VDGG, etc) into the symphonic umbrella (but I can understand the desire to not have it that way). 


Edited by Man With Hat - February 15 2019 at 17:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 22:05
Space Rock/Psychedelic
Symphonic/Classical Prog
Jazz-Rock Fusion

Eliminate Prog-Folk since, though I like them, there seems to be no basis for calling bands like Lindisfarne Prog anything. They're just Folk.

It still won't work, though. A lot of RIO could be put in Symphonic/Classical or Jazz-Rock, but some of it like what Fred Frith and Henry Kaiser have done with gruesome guitar torture just wouldn't fit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 22:12
Originally posted by fat poster fat poster wrote:

Suppose you had to classify all progarchives artists into just three subgenres of your choosing. What three would you choose?

(I’m assuming that each of the three would be further subdivided. I’m also hoping that one of the three wouldn’t be “other” or “miscellaneous”—but maybe that’s not possible.)

/pq

Welcome to the Forum. Happy to have you.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2019 at 06:35
Originally posted by Man With Hat Man With Hat wrote:

Three is pretty much impossible. I think the minimal you can do is 7:

Symphonic (including RPI, Neo, and eclectic/heavy)
Psych/Space (including Kraut & electronic)
Jazz/Fusion (including Canterbury)
RIO/Avant (including zeuhl)
Prog Metal (including all three prog metal subs PA has now)
Prog-Folk (including Indo/Raga)
Post Rock (including...well just Post Rock, although I guess some of the post-metal could probably go here too)
... 

Thanks for posting and welcome and here are some thoughts:

FIRST, and FOREMOST, the "definitions" need to come in line with MUSIC ... not change the word so that it means something else and another band does not fit because the reasoning is bizarre and has nothing to do with music ... has to do with someone's ideas.

I'm not sure that "psych/space" is that much different than "ambient" or "new age" (the worst term ever invented ... all for commercialism!).

The "Prog-Folk" and "Prog-Rock" and "Prog-Metal" are terms that also do not fit any musical variations or descriptions, since one group is almost the same as the next (still a song format!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and the main difference is AMPLIFICATION, which almost all of us here, REFUSE to address. As an example, folks here still can not accept what a great composer Keith Emerson was, in the hands of Rachel Flowers ... and that alone defies the definitions for a lot of "progressive" anything ... something I have been suggesting for years ... you have to UNPLUG IT, and play it ... since too many of these bands are just over rated noise, for the sake of getting the attention they want ... again, this is commercialism, not a definition that belongs in "MUSIC".

The harder part is that the moment we find a nice fit for the main definitions, a new group will show up that makes the definitions seem a bit off key ... however, my contention is that this has been the history of all music for over 500/600 years, and that in this, there is nothing new under the sun or the moon, and we have to simply wake up to it! In other words we are simply trying to use different words for the same thing!

All in all, though, I am not sure that the "definitions" are the problem ... the folks doing the "selecting" are, many of whom are simply voting for their favorites, and I have a tendency to think that they lack musical abilities and studies, to even be considering being a part of that selecting group. In a place like that, the "favoritism" and "preferences" need to be set aside in order to help come up with a more OBJECTIVE view of the whole thing.

Lastly ... we have to stop looking at these things as another top ten this or that ... we need to look at artists as ARTISTS, not hit makers, which is all that the top ten at PA is ... and having the same band 6 times, and another band 7 times, distorts the quality and ability of the "progressive" work ... not to mention that many bands CHANGE over their life, and in their next album they are not exactly this anymore, but are that ... and it's like saying that Beethoven and Tchaikovsky are not composers because they had bagatelles in their listings, and other things that were not "symphonies" (for once that definition is right for hundreds of years ... unlike our "progressive") ... and they are still a "composer" ... and we continually think that rock/jazz folks are not artists ... just idiots that play an instrument ... ohhh, look, that one sold a million!

Until we change that attitude, the ability to do something better and fit the definitions to music ... because right now, many of those definitions are just childish and have less to do with music than they do with any trash you take out in the morning, or last night!


Edited by moshkito - February 16 2019 at 07:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2019 at 06:38
1. Pure prog
2. Prog related
3. Here just because we like it

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walkscore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2019 at 19:51
I am not sure of the reason for reducing to only three categories...(?) While I am a bit skeptical of the boundaries of the categories we often use, I also can see why they might be useful....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2019 at 21:19
I wouldn't worry over much about the utility of such an approach, think of it as an exercise in creative thought. I think there may be some misinterpretation of the intent of the initial post and some thinking that the OP would wish to limit this site's categories to three categories instead of it being a more general question/ exercise in thought. And there is no planned relaunch of this site, although some would wish there was.

It's hard to answer. Welcome to the forum, fat poster.

I'll say Conventional Prog, Alternative Prog and Experimental Prog.


Edited by Logan - February 16 2019 at 21:20
"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2019 at 01:31
Prog 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2019 at 01:54
just three subgenres? I don't know about that. 
I love the diversity in prog, there's plenty to choose from for everyone. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2019 at 02:40
Prog Sub Genre 1
Prog Sub Genre 2
Prog Sub Genre 3

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2019 at 03:54
1. Prog Rock 
2. Fusion, electronica, avantgarde, modern classsical and all the other stuff that isn't Prog Rock but can loosely be considered progressive music if we freeze time in 1974.
3. All the bands from all other genres that prog music fans keep appropriating when those bands are clearly not prog and have no desire to be called prog. 


Edited by LAM-SGC - February 17 2019 at 03:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oganesson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2019 at 04:00
1. Symphonic prog, neo-prog, heavy prog, prog metal (the conventional, melody-based stuff)
2. Jazz fusion, jazz rock, Canterbury scene (the jazzier stuff)
3. RIO, Avant-prog, post-rock, math rock (the more experimental stuff)
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