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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Points: 15916 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2019 at 16:59
I’ve noticed albums by The Nice are mostly around high-2’s to low-3’s. They deserve to be a bit better.
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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

ELP - both of their Works volumes have a lot of great material. Even Love Beach isn’t the ‘useless turd’ many make it out to be.

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I’ve noticed albums by The Nice are mostly around high-2’s to low-3’s. They deserve to be a bit better.


Have to agree with this. For me also, the Nice's 3rd album Everything as Nice as Mother Makes it (in the US) and Elegy (albeit a compilation) are both 5 star efforts
Similarly, I adore Rick Wakeman's No Earthly Connection but appear to be in the minority
Ditto Black Moon by ELP Ouch



Edited by ExittheLemming - March 23 2019 at 18:01
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I don't like the terms overrated and underrated altough I think Refugee's album should be brought up more in people's "best British prog" lists.
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Refugee's self-titled is fantastic. Symph trio fans (those of us who like ELP, Trace, Triumvirat, Quatermass, and so on) love it. The rest...it varies.

Ditto on No Earthly Connection. 
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Points: 15916 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2019 at 18:34
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

ELP - both of their Works volumes have a lot of great
material. Even Love Beach isn’t the ‘useless turd’ many make it out to
be.


Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I’ve noticed albums by The Nice are mostly around high-2’s to low-3’s. They deserve to be a bit better.


Have to agree with this. For me also, the Nice's 3rd album Everything as Nice as Mother Makes it (in the US) and Elegy (albeit a compilation) are both 5 star efforts
Similarly, I adore Rick Wakeman's No Earthly Connection but appear to be in the minority
Ditto Black Moon by ELP Ouch


I never could get into that particular Wakeman album.
Agree - The Nice ; EaNaMMi ( ) my copy is a self-title with a sweaty brick wall big mouth artwork. Love it to bits. And of course Elegy - gotta love Emmo, the barbarian......
Oh, Lee is a great bassist, and even his talents are criminally underrated. His work on the Refugee album is outstanding, and I’ve never had a problem with his voice. Blinky is criminally underrated as a drummer. Fruck, I love The Nice......

Edited by Tom Ozric - March 23 2019 at 18:39
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Refugee's self-titled is fantastic. Symph trio fans (those of us who like ELP, Trace, Triumvirat, Quatermass, and so on) love it. The rest...it varies.

Ditto on No Earthly Connection. 

That's a double ditto for me. No Earthly Connection is one of my fave Wakeman solo efforts.

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I always felt Gentle Giant, even if just In A Glass House, should be higher up on the top 100 list!

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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

I always felt Gentle Giant, even if just In A Glass House, should be higher up on the top 100 list!
Criminally underrated? IaGH is in PA's top 30. Surely you can do better?
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Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

I always felt Gentle Giant, even if just In A Glass House, should be higher up on the top 100 list!
Criminally underrated? IaGH is in PA's top 30. Surely you can do better?

Make it #29!!! LOL Wink

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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,


Lastly, I wonder why folks sit and think that something or other is inferior or superior to something else, when you should be looking at the ARTIST, not anything else ... you're not sitting here writing what you did, thinking that Beethoven's 9th is the best, and his other 8 symphonies are total crap and not even worth rating ... which says ... YOU ARE NOT LISTENING ... you are merely mentioning the bits and pieces you LIKE.

Sadly, a band like CAMEL ends up sounding like they are not worth standing up ... if you look at the complete catalog, you have to say that the band is fantastic, and deserves a lot of applause for the amazing amount of great music ... and to say that RAIN DANCES is better or worse than NUDE, is really, totally sad, and for my tastes, a lack of appreciation for the variety and the desire to create something special ... which the band did in both of those cases! NUDE is a fantastic album, were it not for a theme that makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable, starting with one word! So that means that RAIN DANCES is a lighter album and therefore better?

I don't even want to start on STRAWBS ... a truly special band in my eyes and ears ... but people like the party faire, not the stuff that has a stronger meaning than just ... whatever ... I can still play H&H and Ghosts, and Deadlines and many of their albums ... and it never loses its sensitivity and care for its work ... like CAMEL, there is nothing to over rate or under rate STRAWBS ... as an "artist" this band is fantastic ... regardless of what anyone else says!


If I understand you correctly - and I'm not sure that I do - are you arguing that everything a good artist does is equally good simply by virtue of being produced by the same artist?  If so, I can't agree.
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Didier Malherbe's first solo album Bloom is a true jewel. It doesn't have many ratings so doesn't seem to be very well known; the existing ratings are a mixed bag for some reason, but believe me, this album is a joy.
 
Then there are a number of interesting albums by well known bands that are full of ideas and energy but the general PA public probably doesn't think them "progressive" enough... such as Renaissance "Camera Camera", King Crimson "Beat", Camel "Breathless".

And then the amount of techno may have put many off the Can remix album "Sacrilege", but I think it's great. So much to discover on that one.

I also sign up to the "it's-all-a-matter-of-taste"-brigade. Nobody has to like the albums that I like! I just think that those listed above could deserve some more spins with open mind and ears.
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Logan View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

I always felt Gentle Giant, even if just In A Glass House, should be higher up on the top 100 list!
Criminally underrated? IaGH is in PA's top 30. Surely you can do better?


It was at number 22 on the day that I joined the site CLICK

I had an earlier account (forgot the details) and back then it was in PA's top ten. I know I visited this site around March 9, 2005, and back then it was in the top ten: CLICK

It was at number 23 two days after Frenetic Zetetic joined the site: CLICK

I like In a Glass House considerably, but Acquiring the Taste is the Gentle Giant album that I'd rank highest. To each his or her own acquired tastes.

Edited by Logan - March 24 2019 at 10:30
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

And then the amount of techno may have put many off the Can remix album "Sacrilege", but I think it's great. So much to discover on that one.


Oh yes it's very varied and sounds a lot different from the originals, well worth having.
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Rick Wakeman's Criminal Record Tongue
 

Rick's best! Clap
Not his best but I really like it. And what about No Earthly Connection?
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Originally posted by Braka Braka wrote:

...
If I understand you correctly - and I'm not sure that I do - are you arguing that everything a good artist does is equally good simply by virtue of being produced by the same artist?  If so, I can't agree. 

I think you misread it ... the idea is ... you might not like Picasso's Blue Period, or his Rose Period ... does that make him a bad artist? Per art history, that would make you the cynic, see?

People are not regarding a band's output as an art ... just a bunch of songs, and this is causing many folks to think that YES was trash 30 years on, when they weren't ... compared to the early works that we love, it could be said that they were not as good, however the level of musicianship did not drop ... the material was different.

Same thing for CAMEL and STRAWBS ... not every song is "perfect" ... but if their complete catalog is looked at from the start, both bands were very good and deserve the accolades.

I simply wish that we would stop looking at all these things, and history, as just vignettes that are separated from their rightful "owner" and "artist". It's still, for the most part, the same person!

So you gonna tell me that FZ can't be that good because he had too many albums, and most of them you can't stand and too much early stuff is just plain weird and silly! That makes him a lousy musician before he becomes a guitar God?

All it shows is the lack of respect, specially in America, for the arts and an artist!
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The fact that neither Brain Salad Surgery nor Tales From Topographic Oceans makes PA's Top 100 hurts my heart. 
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Braka Braka wrote:

...
If I understand you correctly - and I'm not sure that I do - are you arguing that everything a good artist does is equally good simply by virtue of being produced by the same artist?  If so, I can't agree. 

I think you misread it ... the idea is ... you might not like Picasso's Blue Period, or his Rose Period ... does that make him a bad artist? Per art history, that would make you the cynic, see?

People are not regarding a band's output as an art ... just a bunch of songs, and this is causing many folks to think that YES was trash 30 years on, when they weren't ... compared to the early works that we love, it could be said that they were not as good, however the level of musicianship did not drop ... the material was different.

Same thing for CAMEL and STRAWBS ... not every song is "perfect" ... but if their complete catalog is looked at from the start, both bands were very good and deserve the accolades.

I simply wish that we would stop looking at all these things, and history, as just vignettes that are separated from their rightful "owner" and "artist". It's still, for the most part, the same person!

So you gonna tell me that FZ can't be that good because he had too many albums, and most of them you can't stand and too much early stuff is just plain weird and silly! That makes him a lousy musician before he becomes a guitar God?

All it shows is the lack of respect, specially in America, for the arts and an artist!

I see what you mean about someone being a good artist and that lasting for life, I like to explore the works of certain musicians who had a very long career, such as Pierre Henry or Edgar Froese / Tangerine Dream, and see how they changed and developed over time. Maybe not all the output is so good, but I give such people more of a chance and will persist in listening repeatedly and returning to their material, perhaps in chronological sequence from what I already appreciate, and it very often grows on me gradually and reveals its brilliance. It could be that they're using their talent well but in a different style than I'm comfortable with, but there's always the possibility that substandard works have resulted from lack of inspiration, the need to fill an album, time pressure or just the desire for money and cashing in on reputation, there's no guarantee that the talent will always be used to its full potential.
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Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

The fact that neither Brain Salad Surgery nor Tales From Topographic Oceans makes PA's Top 100 hurts my heart. 

Brain salad probably deserves it but not sure about tales(as much as I like Yes). For ELP I would only rank the first one higher but for Yes there's at least four I think are better.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - March 25 2019 at 08:58
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I tend to think more obscure albums are the most underrated ones and that may be because they aren't readily available. It would probably take me the better part of a day to list these, but here are a couple dozen of examples:

1. Most of Arne Schäfer's works in Apogee and Versus X.
2. The two albums in the short history of The Underground Railroad.
3. The Othello Syndrome's sole album The Shadow of Dreams.
4. Rainbow Theatre's Fantasy of Horses album.
5. Ascorbic Acid's two albums: Seven Words and People.
6. Ken Baird's August and Orion albums.
7. Emmanuel Booz's Dans quel etat j'erre album.
8. Cairo's first two albums.
9. Alex Carpani's 4 Destinies album (his first two aren't bad either).
10. Cell15's two albums.
11. All of Italian prog band Conqueror's albums.
12. Devil Doll's Eliogabalus album.
13. Din Within's only album.
14. Eccentric Orbit's Attack of the Martians.
15. Chilean prog band Efecto's only album.
16. Italian band Entity's only album (rated 4.20, but only 20 ratings).
17. Canadian band ExCubus' two albums.
18. Eyestrings' Burdened Hands album (a Ryan Parmenter project)
19. Galleon's In the Wake of the Moon album.
20. Most of IZZ's discography.
21. All of Little Atlas' discography from Surface Serene to Automatic Day
22. Malibran's Le Porte del Silenzio (rated 4.02, but only 74 ratings)
23. Runaway Totem's Andromeda album.
24. Tale Cue's only album.
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I tend to think more obscure albums are the most underrated ones and that may be because they aren't readily available. It would probably take me the better part of a day to list these, but here are a couple dozen of examples:
...

Not only that but there are some things that should be standard by now, and aren't ... the most glaring one?

AMAZON in the UK ... I can not buy anything in there, in America! Plain and simple, the card gets turned down ... and things like this show a lack of appreciation and understanding for the "world market" ... as well as that countries continuous desire to not have a more open market share ... what is harder to believe is that the idiots in the Parliament and in government are denying sales to their own constituents ... which is a benefit to their economy ... and nobody in England says anything ... and you really think that BrexBS is going to make this better?

Good luck ... in essence this is a currency exchange problem that one hoped the Euro had improved in Europe, but it really didn't ... by comparison I can pretty much buy any CD from Japan ... so let's look at who is the one hurting its own artists!
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