Common prog misconceptions |
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Odvin Draoi
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 01 2019 Location: X Status: Offline Points: 516 |
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I know the word "moshpit", and If I guess the meaning of mosh correctly, you're addressing me just the opposite. My point was, being simple and effective/impactful/impressive/original etc. is just as good as being sophisticated and complicated while also being consistent and intriguing; and it is even better than being sophisticated and inept. |
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TCat
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 07 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 11612 |
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My lesson I have learned from fact checking is that Wikipedia can be a good source of facts, however, it's usually best to check their facts, because, just like Prog Archives, regular people are writing these facts. Use several sources, not just one. Also remember, none of us are perfect, especially moi.
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4807 |
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4807 |
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That Jon Anderson is some kind of Milquetoast. In fact, he's a normal guy who enjoys playing golf in Florida.
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7946 |
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No, actually Mosh was referring to Moshkito, the poster right before me, otherwise known as Pedro. Sure, in another time and in another mood, I might agree with you to one extent or another. Having a low post count as you do I wasn't sure if you might've been just trolling, but you seem genuine enough, so welcome to the forum. Anyway, what fans of different music styles value is different. Prog fans see an elegance in complexity. Jazz fans like complexity too, but may care very little about a Prog fan's excitement over innovative timbres. Many prog fans may enjoy good vocals and good lyrics, yet overdose on them on them very easily and are really more inclined toward instrumental work. Similarly, it may be true that there is something to be said for understatement and simplicity, but many Prog fans are not chasing that and get bored easily with minimal complexity no matter how eloquent (for instance, I appreciate the Stones for their eloquence and tasteful yet simple blues, but they are not going on my desert island list). So, yes, I consider Prog superior given what I value in music. Of course 'superior' is a subjective term in my use. My apology to the OP, as I understand this post deviates from the point of the thread. |
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Polymorphia
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Atavachron
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'Scuse me while I kiss this guy ~ |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 14980 |
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Surprised he doesn't play in California. He must like humidity.
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Odvin Draoi
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 01 2019 Location: X Status: Offline Points: 516 |
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Thanks for the clarification, and the kind and detailed reply. This pretty much shows my incisive understanding and preferences in lots of things in general; encompassing artistic taste and valuation. From my perspective, they are on a par. Generally "ingenuous" approach of the artists call for some other elements like originality to rise in value, and "ingenious" pieces require coherence at least. Yet if they achieve to impress you, both ingeniousness and ingenuousness are in same value, for oneself; or rather, for myself; as you already said it is a subjective issue. Also both can be combined in countless ways. Just by adding a fantastic invention or twist, an ingenuous artist might bring into being an ingenious work of art to some or great extent; or showing an ingenuous approach in the lyrics of an ingenious work of art might make people very impressed and arouse ineffable emotions, etc. Edited by Odvin Draoi - April 16 2019 at 05:06 |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 16143 |
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Here's two:
In the court of the crimson king was the first prog rock album. This is a statement that I still see. It's really just an opinion that people present as fact but just saying it doesn't make it so. For one thing many sources(including wikipedia)cite earlier bands and albums as progressive rock(the Moody Blues and Pink Floyd being just two examples)and another is that the Canterbury scene existed before that album. I think what people really mean is that it's the album that made prog official or the album that took prog out of the underground etc. Whether it's the first or not is highly debatable. Most prog fans are over 55 or old enough to have been into the genre in the seventies. First of all "most" is hard to prove. What do we mean by most? 95 percent? Over 80 percent? Even if we say 75 percent that is probably not true as well as a generalization. Sure, it seems like most prog fans are around that age if we just go by who shows up at the festivals but maybe it's because most of them are retired or can afford to go on cruise to the edge or other festivals. The truth is that there are prog fans from all ages. There's even weirdos like myself who got into this music in the eighties! Imagine that. I could generalize and say Yes and ELP for the seventies fans, Marillion and Genesis and Rush for the 80's fans and Dream Theater and King's X(maybe?)for the 90's fans etc. That would be a bit of a generalization and a bit unfair and an exagerration even if there is a tiny bit of truth to that. Over all prog fans have different ways of finding out about this music and come in at different periods in their life and in different decades.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 15 2019 at 18:20 |
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Fischman
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A normal guy that likes golf...
.... sounds like the very essence of milquetoast to me. |
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verslibre
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Still? That makes no sense, as that album came out in '69, and before that, at a bare minimum, we got The Mothers' Freak Out! in '66, Floyd's Piper... and The Nice's Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack (ELP's oft-performed "Rondo" comes from this album) in '67, and Tomorrow's self-titled in '68.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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You're right. It makes no sense but people still seem to think that. Still as in people continue to say it even after it's been more or less disproven. However, I will say that Tomorrow, despite having a future Yes member in Steve Howe were a psych band and imo not really even proto prog. That doesn't mean they weren't good just that I don't hear much other than just pure psych in their music. A better example, imo, would be Family.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 15 2019 at 20:33 |
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siLLy puPPy
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I think it's been firmly established that East of Eden released their debut before KC as well. I don't think anyone really thinks KC produced the first prog album. What they did was popularize prog and start a whole new revolution and that's why ITCOTCK is considered as the big bang of prog.
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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Dellinger
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To simplify things, I do consider ItCotCK as the first prog album. I know it's not accurate... actually not true. But since the creation of the genre was a process, an evolution, and music widely considered prog doesn't always have all the elements usually asociated with prog (actually, there's no true concensus about which characteristics make prog, and there are many bands that some cosider prog and others don't), it's actually very difficult, or just about impossible to choose the real first prog album. So, I'm just fine by considering Crimson's debut as the first one, more as a turning point.
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Atavachron
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It's amazing how much prog owes to Psychedelic rock. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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M27Barney
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Its a little known fact that Steve Howe used the shadow of his erect penis to calculate the height of the great pyramid of cheops...
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13345 |
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Not sure if it's an urban legend or not: the guitar solo at the end of Kate Bush' Wuthering Heights is played by David Gilmour.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
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M27Barney
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Thought that was Fripp?
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13345 |
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On the single those are credited: - Paul Keogh / guitars - Alan Parker / guitars - Ian Bairnson / guitars |
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
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