Common prog misconceptions

HackettFan wrote: Hey Mosh! We agree. Prog is sophisticated AND it is complicated and THEREFORE, from my frame of reference, it is superior. I have not been in a position to validate any other frame of reference.

I know the word "moshpit", and If I guess the meaning of mosh correctly, you're addressing me just the opposite. 

My point was, being simple and effective/impactful/impressive/original etc.  is just as good as being sophisticated and complicated while also being consistent and intriguing; and it is even better than being sophisticated and inept.

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Atavachron wrote: Steve Howe had a small penis.  False, and was one of the most well-endowed people in prog. How would you know?

Must be a groupie!

Odvin Draoi wrote: HackettFan wrote: Hey Mosh! We agree. Prog is sophisticated AND it is complicated and THEREFORE, from my frame of reference, it is superior. I have not been in a position to validate any other frame of reference. I know the word "moshpit", and If I guess the meaning of mosh correctly, you're addressing me just the opposite.  My point was, being simple and effective/impactful/impressive/original etc.  is just as good as being sophisticated and complicated while also being consistent and intriguing; and it is even better than being sophisticated and inept.

No, actually Mosh was referring to Moshkito, the poster right before me, otherwise known as Pedro. Sure, in another time and in another mood, I might agree with you to one extent or another. Having a low post count as you do I wasn't sure if you might've been just trolling, but you seem genuine enough, so welcome to the forum. Anyway, what fans of different music styles value is different. Prog fans see an elegance in complexity. Jazz fans like complexity too, but may care very little about a Prog fan's excitement over innovative timbres. Many prog fans may enjoy good vocals and good lyrics, yet overdose on them on them very easily and are really more inclined toward instrumental work. Similarly, it may be true that there is something to be said for understatement and simplicity, but many Prog fans are not chasing that and get bored easily with minimal complexity no matter how eloquent (for instance, I appreciate the Stones for their eloquence and tasteful yet simple blues, but they are not going on my desert island list). So, yes, I consider Prog superior given what I value in music. Of course 'superior' is a subjective term in my use.

My apology to the OP, as I understand this post deviates from the point of the thread.

HackettFan wrote: Odvin Draoi wrote: HackettFan wrote: Hey Mosh! We agree. Prog is sophisticated AND it is complicated and THEREFORE, from my frame of reference, it is superior. I have not been in a position to validate any other frame of reference. I know the word "moshpit", and If I guess the meaning of mosh correctly, you're addressing me just the opposite.  My point was, being simple and effective/impactful/impressive/original etc.  is just as good as being sophisticated and complicated while also being consistent and intriguing; and it is even better than being sophisticated and inept. No, actually Mosh was referring to Moshkito, the poster right before me, otherwise known as Pedro. Sure, in another time and in another mood, I might agree with you to one extent or another. Having a low post count as you do I wasn't sure if you might've been just trolling, but you seem genuine enough, so welcome to the forum. Anyway, what fans of different music styles value is different. Prog fans see an elegance in complexity. Jazz fans like complexity too, but may care very little about a Prog fan's excitement over innovative timbres. Many prog fans may enjoy good vocals and good lyrics, yet overdose on them on them very easily and are really more inclined toward instrumental work. Similarly, it may be true that there is something to be said for understatement and simplicity, but many Prog fans are not chasing that and get bored easily with minimal complexity no matter how eloquent (for instance, I appreciate the Stones for their eloquence and tasteful yet simple blues, but they are not going on my desert island list). So, yes, I consider Prog superior given what I value in music. Of course 'superior' is a subjective term in my use. My apology to the OP, as I understand this post deviates from the point of the thread.

Thanks for the clarification, and the kind and detailed reply. 



This pretty much shows my incisive understanding and preferences in lots of things in general; encompassing artistic taste and valuation. From my perspective, they are on a par. Generally "ingenuous" approach of the artists call for some other elements like originality to rise in value, and "ingenious" pieces require coherence at least. Yet if they achieve to impress you, both ingeniousness and ingenuousness are in same value, for oneself; or rather, for myself; as you already said it is a subjective issue.

Also both can be combined in countless ways. Just by adding a fantastic invention or twist, an ingenuous artist might bring into being an ingenious work of art to some or great extent; or showing an ingenuous approach in the lyrics of an ingenious work of art might make people very impressed and arouse ineffable emotions,  etc.




Edited by Odvin Draoi - April 16 2019 at 05:06

A normal guy that likes golf...

.... sounds like the very essence of milquetoast to me.

verslibre wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: In the court of the crimson king was the first prog rock album.  This is a statement that I still see. It's really just an opinion that people present as fact but just saying it doesn't make it so. For one thing many sources(including wikipedia)cite earlier bands and albums as progressive rock(the Moody Blues and Pink Floyd being just two examples)and another is that the Canterbury scene existed before that album. I think what people really mean is that it's the album that made prog official or the album that took prog out of the underground etc. Whether it's the first or not is highly debatable.   Still? That makes no sense, as that album came out in '69, and before that, at a bare minimum, we got The Mothers' Freak Out! in '66, Floyd's Piper... and The Nice's Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack (ELP's oft-performed "Rondo" comes from this album) in '67, and Tomorrow's self-titled in '68.

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 15 2019 at 20:33

To simplify things, I do consider ItCotCK as the first prog album. I know it's not accurate... actually not true. But since the creation of the genre was a process, an evolution, and music widely considered prog doesn't always have all the elements usually asociated with prog (actually, there's no true concensus about which characteristics make prog, and there are many bands that some cosider prog and others don't), it's actually very difficult, or just about impossible to choose the real first prog album. So, I'm just fine by considering Crimson's debut as the first one, more as a turning point.

Its a little known fact that Steve Howe used the shadow of his erect penis to calculate the height of the great pyramid of cheops...

Thought that was Fripp?