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Is it time for Brutal Prog as a new sub?

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BaldFriede View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2019 at 09:52
Brutal prog is Van der Graaf's double live album "Vital".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2019 at 10:09
Some King Crimson is pretty brutal. Same with parts of Electronic Meditation (Tangerine Dream)...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2019 at 11:05


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2019 at 11:23
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:


AVANT FOLK:
Ah, but Avant Folk is a term. It isn't a prog subgenre though.


He didn't say it isn't an existing term, in case that's unclear to anyone. I would call Avant Folk, Brutal Folk, and Extreme Folk terms even if he coined them. That said, as used terms, all three existed. Kazuki Tomokawa for instance has had music described as Avant Folk, Psychedelic Folk, Contemporary Folk, and Brutal Folk. There are various acts labelled Extreme Folk. CLICK There is an extreme folk festival: https://www.xfsmusic.org/#!about_us/c14e3 Alamaailman Vasarat (which is in PA's Avant category) is considered by some to be an Extreme Folk band

I would say that all of these terms could be incorporated into Prog subgenres, or subsubgenres (especially if having multiple classification tagging) for music

For instance under Prog Folk we could have:

Avant Folk
Acid Folk
Chamber Folk
Brutal Folk
Extreme Folk
Pirate Folk
Queer as Folk
Polka Dance Party Booty Folk

It would be implied that, say Avant Folk at PA, refers to Avant Prog Folk (that which we put under the Prog tent), but for clarity once could add Prog to the end of each of those.

Well, of course we could have anything if we and [email protected] were willing, but whether we'd want to is as another matter.

Edited by Logan - June 20 2019 at 11:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2019 at 13:43
^ Funk Folk
Free Folk
12 tone Folk
Serial Folk
Cereal Folk
Modal Folk
Vegan Folk
"Your Folks and My Folks"
"When the wind stops blowing, there goes your electric" - Commander bone spurs befuddled by 21st century technology.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2019 at 14:35
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ Funk Folk
Free Folk
12 tone Folk
Serial Folk
Cereal Folk
Modal Folk
Vegan Folk
"Your Folks and My Folks"

folk metal. yep, this really exists; an example for this are Skyclad


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2019 at 18:07
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:


AVANT FOLK:
Ah, but Avant Folk is a term. It isn't a prog subgenre though.


He didn't say it isn't an existing term, in case that's unclear to anyone. I would call Avant Folk, Brutal Folk, and Extreme Folk terms even if he coined them. That said, as used terms, all three existed. Kazuki Tomokawa for instance has had music described as Avant Folk, Psychedelic Folk, Contemporary Folk, and Brutal Folk. There are various acts labelled Extreme Folk. CLICK There is an extreme folk festival: https://www.xfsmusic.org/#!about_us/c14e3 Alamaailman Vasarat (which is in PA's Avant category) is considered by some to be an Extreme Folk band

I would say that all of these terms could be incorporated into Prog subgenres, or subsubgenres (especially if having multiple classification tagging) for music

For instance under Prog Folk we could have:

Avant Folk
Acid Folk
Chamber Folk
Brutal Folk
Extreme Folk
Pirate Folk
Queer as Folk
Polka Dance Party Booty Folk

It would be implied that, say Avant Folk at PA, refers to Avant Prog Folk (that which we put under the Prog tent), but for clarity once could add Prog to the end of each of those.

Well, of course we could have anything if we and [email protected] were willing, but whether we'd want to is as another matter.

You  missed one of the actual tags - Freak Folk. Anything beyond mondo bizarro, thus Comus, Exuma, etc

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2019 at 13:32
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:


AVANT FOLK:
Ah, but Avant Folk is a term. It isn't a prog subgenre though.


He didn't say it isn't an existing term, in case that's unclear to anyone. I would call Avant Folk, Brutal Folk, and Extreme Folk terms even if he coined them. That said, as used terms, all three existed. Kazuki Tomokawa for instance has had music described as Avant Folk, Psychedelic Folk, Contemporary Folk, and Brutal Folk. There are various acts labelled Extreme Folk. CLICK There is an extreme folk festival: https://www.xfsmusic.org/#!about_us/c14e3 Alamaailman Vasarat (which is in PA's Avant category) is considered by some to be an Extreme Folk band

I would say that all of these terms could be incorporated into Prog subgenres, or subsubgenres (especially if having multiple classification tagging) for music

For instance under Prog Folk we could have:

Avant Folk
Acid Folk
Chamber Folk
Brutal Folk
Extreme Folk
Pirate Folk
Queer as Folk
Polka Dance Party Booty Folk

It would be implied that, say Avant Folk at PA, refers to Avant Prog Folk (that which we put under the Prog tent), but for clarity once could add Prog to the end of each of those.

Well, of course we could have anything if we and [email protected] were willing, but whether we'd want to is as another matter.


You  missed one of the actual tags - Freak Folk. Anything beyond mondo bizarro, thus Comus, Exuma, etc


I wasn't intending to be comprehensive, but yes, I love Freak Folk (I know you know this topic because you posted in it, but I'm always hoping for more recs): http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=112591

Edited by Logan - June 23 2019 at 13:48
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - "The Face of Evil" 1977).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2019 at 14:10
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:


AVANT FOLK:
Ah, but Avant Folk is a term. It isn't a prog subgenre though.


He didn't say it isn't an existing term, in case that's unclear to anyone. I would call Avant Folk, Brutal Folk, and Extreme Folk terms even if he coined them. That said, as used terms, all three existed. Kazuki Tomokawa for instance has had music described as Avant Folk, Psychedelic Folk, Contemporary Folk, and Brutal Folk. There are various acts labelled Extreme Folk. CLICK There is an extreme folk festival: https://www.xfsmusic.org/#!about_us/c14e3 Alamaailman Vasarat (which is in PA's Avant category) is considered by some to be an Extreme Folk band

I would say that all of these terms could be incorporated into Prog subgenres, or subsubgenres (especially if having multiple classification tagging) for music

For instance under Prog Folk we could have:

Avant Folk
Acid Folk
Chamber Folk
Brutal Folk
Extreme Folk
Pirate Folk
Queer as Folk
Polka Dance Party Booty Folk

It would be implied that, say Avant Folk at PA, refers to Avant Prog Folk (that which we put under the Prog tent), but for clarity once could add Prog to the end of each of those.

Well, of course we could have anything if we and [email protected] were willing, but whether we'd want to is as another matter.
I have never, not once, heard of brutal folk or extreme folk. First time for everything, I suppose. 

Also, re: Freak Folk: that term as applied to Comus and Exuma, etc. is imo anachronistic. It originally meant to refer to the New Weird America movement or avant-folk and psych folk made contemporaneously with that movement. As far as I'm concerned, Comus, while having some influence on said movement, isn't particularly similar to most of its artists. But obviously this is simply an argument about words. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2019 at 14:27
Why stop there? I can think of other possible subgenres not on here such as jazz prog(not the same as jazz fusion or canterbury)but bands who have a jazz influence(think of something like Steely Dan but more prog sounding), soft prog(stuff that's mellow but not necessarily folky) and also art rock(or maybe even semi prog).  I remember there being a category for prog related music called zolo(does anyone remember that?). It didn't really take off because the music fell into other categories and there maybe wasn't a very unifying common thread throughout all the bands other than they were a bit weird or off beat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2019 at 14:33
Could it be time for an “Other Prog” category? Or would this be an acknowledgement that PA’s subgenres aren’t watertight?
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Why stop there? I can think of other possible subgenres not on here such as jazz prog(not the same as jazz fusion or canterbury)but bands who have a jazz influence(think of something like Steely Dan but more prog sounding), soft prog(stuff that's mellow but not necessarily folky) and also art rock(or maybe even semi prog).  I remember there being a category for prog related music called zolo(does anyone remember that?). It didn't really take off because the music fell into other categories and there maybe wasn't a very unifying common thread throughout all the bands other than they were a bit weird or off beat.


Edited by patrickq - June 24 2019 at 14:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2019 at 17:20
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Why stop there? I can think of other possible subgenres not on here such as jazz prog(not the same as jazz fusion or canterbury)but bands who have a jazz influence(think of something like Steely Dan but more prog sounding), soft prog(stuff that's mellow but not necessarily folky) and also art rock(or maybe even semi prog).  I remember there being a category for prog related music called zolo(does anyone remember that?). It didn't really take off because the music fell into other categories and there maybe wasn't a very unifying common thread throughout all the bands other than they were a bit weird or off beat.
Zolo isn't necessarily prog. It crosses over into avant-prog, but doesn't have to be prog. Some of it is based more in new wave.

Also, Soft Prog? I think the users of this site have enough erectile dysfunction, thank you. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2019 at 17:51
Maybe we should make it like a family tree, with roots that lead to a trunk ... proto-prog ... and then the main branches of prog in the late 60s and 70s branching off into subgenres.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2019 at 17:52
Brutal prog could be like the drunk uncle with the twisted stories at Thanksgiving.
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