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Thick as a Brick: Overrated on Progarchives

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SteveG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 08:06
As a prog album TAAB is overrated. As a spoof on a prog album it's a f**king masterpiece. Well done Ian.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 08:43
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...
 I doubt if one single person agrees with the top 250 list. I surely don't. Foxtrot and Nursery Crime wouldn't even make my top 1000 albums much less top 20.


Same.

The one thing I would FORCE is that on that list you have to have 250 ARTISTS ... not albums ... thus we know that GENESIS would be there, but we would not be having these powwow's about these albums ... heck, are we such idiots as to have to select a Peter Hammill album and then a VdGG album? That person needs a visit from Nurse Ratchet in their dreams!

Now, specifying that GENESIS is better than YES or vice versa is actually a much better discussion, because you have to include their listing of albums, and all of a sudden, guess what you find? Some progressive folks only listened to 3 or 4 GENESIS albums, and some YES folks only listened to 3 of their albums, and they are voting full force! 

Oh well ... I guess a commercial society has to have these numbers so the folks know what to buy!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now try finding your own mirror/art! www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 08:44
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

As a prog album TAAB is overrated. As a spoof on a prog album it's a f**king masterpiece. Well done Ian.

I like the album ... it just bothers me, these discussions almost 50 years later ... we might as well go around calling Mozart a communist now!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now try finding your own mirror/art! www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 08:48
^ Confused  Don't be ridiculous! Mozart was a Maoist!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 08:54
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


The one thing I would FORCE is that on that list you have to have 250 ARTISTS ... not albums ... thus we know that GENESIS would be there, but we would not be having these powwow's about these albums ... heck, are we such idiots as to have to select a Peter Hammill album and then a VdGG album? That person needs a visit from Nurse Ratchet in their dreams!


I disagree. That's not the point of the top 250. It is the highest rated ALBUMS by members of PA. I think everyone takes this stuff too seriously and has insecurity issues when they don't like a highly rated album or their precious obscurity isn't on it. It's just a reflection of how people feel!

Nothing wrong with adding other lists though. A top 250 artists page would be cool indeed.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 10:43
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^ Confused  Don't be ridiculous! Mozart was a Maoist!

And here I thought he was a hedonist.  
Wink

btw...I agree with your take on TAAB.


“Monty Python lampooned the British way of life,” says Anderson. “Yet did it in such a way that made us all laugh while celebrating it. To me, that’s what we as a band did on Thick As A Brick. We were spoofing the idea of the concept album, but in a fun way that didn’t totally mock it.”


Edited by dr wu23 - July 16 2019 at 10:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 12:37
Calling something overrated is overrated.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 12:43
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^ Confused  Don't be ridiculous! Mozart was a Maoist!

And here I thought he was a hedonist.  
Wink

btw...I agree with your take on TAAB.


“Monty Python lampooned the British way of life,” says Anderson. “Yet did it in such a way that made us all laugh while celebrating it. To me, that’s what we as a band did on Thick As A Brick. We were spoofing the idea of the concept album, but in a fun way that didn’t totally mock it.”
Yes, that's it doc, and, contrary to mosh's thinking, that's why it is important to have these discussions 50 years later as people forget such facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 13:03
I wasn't a Tull fan back in the day, though I certainly liked some songs.  On the radio, one would hear a 5 minute excerpt of TAAB, even on the FM channels.  This didn't do it justice.  40 years later I properly discovered it...and I'd say it's one of the few in the top 10 that ISN'T overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 13:57
This site is as usual torn into its two hemispheres. You have the moshkito anti genesis rant, siding with the emperors new clothes aficionados who wonder why an album of random noises and mind boggingly repetitious themes isnt valued by those people who have taken the saucepan off their heads and actually like a haunting melody or the power of the skillful arpegio or moving chord sequences....TAAB is an important concept album from 1972. And I have a mint vinyl copy in my vault. Part of my retirement fund if I can bear to sell it....

Edited by M27Barney - July 16 2019 at 13:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 14:20
I like TAAB and I've got no issue with it being rated as a top prog album.
 
Whether it's the third best prog rock album of all time is more debatable.
 
It wouldn't be my third best, but I guess that's personal taste.
 
Certainly I would rate both "Red" and "Relayer" higher than TAAB, but the fact that TAAB is rated number three doesn't cause me any great discomfort.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 14:43
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

This site is as usual torn into its two hemispheres. You have the moshkito anti genesis rant, siding with the emperors new clothes aficionados who wonder why an album of random noises and mind boggingly repetitious themes isnt valued by those people who have taken the saucepan off their heads and actually like a haunting melody or the power of the skillful arpegio or moving chord sequences....TAAB is an important concept album from 1972. And I have a mint vinyl copy in my vault. Part of my retirement fund if I can bear to sell it....

I hate to burst your bubble...but there are mint vinyl copies all over the place,,,US and Brit ones.
Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2019 at 14:51
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

I wasn't a Tull fan back in the day, though I certainly liked some songs.  On the radio, one would hear a 5 minute excerpt of TAAB, even on the FM channels.  This didn't do it justice.  40 years later I properly discovered it...and I'd say it's one of the few in the top 10 that ISN'T overrated.

The thick as a brick radio edit(at least here in the US)was actually only about three minutes. You hear the flute fading with acoustic guitar playing and the song ends as far as most classic rock fans(who obviously aren't really prog or Tull fans) are concerned. You don't hear the part with the acoustic guitar strumming chords right after the flute and then the bam bam with Martin kicking in. The radio edit ends right before that. Imagine the surprise when you play the entire album to someone who is a classic rock fan who only knows the radio version.LOL


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 16 2019 at 14:51
Yes is for Rush fans who grew up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2019 at 00:29
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

This site is as usual torn into its two hemispheres. You have the moshkito anti genesis rant, siding with the emperors new clothes aficionados who wonder why an album of random noises and mind boggingly repetitious themes isnt valued by those people who have taken the saucepan off their heads and actually like a haunting melody or the power of the skillful arpegio or moving chord sequences....TAAB is an important concept album from 1972. And I have a mint vinyl copy in my vault. Part of my retirement fund if I can bear to sell it....


I hate to burst your bubble...but there are mint vinyl copies all over the place,,,US and Brit ones.
Wink
ah. But mr Wu I also have all my paternal grandmas first edition charles dickens novels and...the "A christmas Carol" was signed by Dickens when he visited an industrial school in Swinton....All safe in a fire proof locatipn...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2019 at 01:27
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

As a prog album TAAB is overrated. As a spoof on a prog album it's a f**king masterpiece. Well done Ian.

Exactly. I think some people have an internal resistance to admitting that this might be top tier, even though it was intended as a spoof. Sometimes art "works" that way. The best archetypes and zeitgest etc comes out during such periods of "mockery".

That's honestly how I kind of feel about TFTO; everything everyone hates about it I love and think it represents a progressive rock archetype. Personal view!

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

This site is as usual torn into its two hemispheres. You have the moshkito anti genesis rant, siding with the emperors new clothes aficionados who wonder why an album of random noises and mind boggingly repetitious themes isnt valued by those people who have taken the saucepan off their heads and actually like a haunting melody or the power of the skillful arpegio or moving chord sequences....TAAB is an important concept album from 1972. And I have a mint vinyl copy in my vault. Part of my retirement fund if I can bear to sell it....

Exactly, lol.

I listened again for the first time in probably a year (TAAB), and this album most certainly deserves its status here and on many other resources.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2019 at 06:19
I think I have to be in a certain mood for it. And I need to get a copy of the vinyl just to read the paper. My copy is still in its bought state including the cellophane that says it was purchased from HMV presumably in 1972...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2019 at 07:25
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

... Yes, that's it doc, and, contrary to mosh's thinking, that's why it is important to have these discussions 50 years later as people forget such facts.

It might surprise you that I had this album before almost every single JT fan at the time! And I used to play this on my headphones, stoned immaculate!

Again, I have never confused facts with fiction, after all, I am a writer and have several short stories and 4 novels to my name and I don't really need anyone telling me the difference between "facts" and just another story.

I knew of that quote, and have the article in my files! Just like I have stuff from PG and the GENESIS break up, and many others from PF from the early days!

The discussions are important and the facts helpful many times, however, they do not always resolve anything, since your ideas are always more important than mine, and taking things out of context to say something that is well known ... is not exactly creative.

Facts don't change history ... they just make you more human ... like suggesting that Mick never goes to the bathroom to take a poop, because he's gotta be too clean to score all the girls ... a few years back, anyway! 

Your comment is ignoring the point of the post. So typical of a few members on this board!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2019 at 07:35
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

This site is as usual torn into its two hemispheres. You have the moshkito anti genesis rant, siding with the emperors new clothes aficionados who wonder why an album of random noises and mind boggingly repetitious themes isnt valued by those people who have taken the saucepan off their heads and actually like a haunting melody or the power of the skillful arpegio or moving chord sequences....TAAB is an important concept album from 1972. And I have a mint vinyl copy in my vault. Part of my retirement fund if I can bear to sell it....

I like works of art ... I don't go around telling you that only a piece of Guernica (the left corner for you with a broken _______!), or a piece of the Mona Lisa (just half of her smile!), or a full frontal of Miro .... like so many folks around here do, is progressive and the rest is regressive! Pay attention to the line and comment plz!

I respect the artistic vision, and what/how these things are presented.

YOU DON'T ... and would rather postulate that the artist is WRONG in creating such ideas and visions, and then leaving us wondering what it means, and why waste vinyl space (then!) ... and my comment to you is ... go buy something else ... the Xes Pistols need your money a bit more than GENESIS!

I'm OK with you not understanding side 3 ... but saying it is crap because you don't like it, is out of line, and just shows how you disrespecting the artistic ideas and creativity. You don't like one sculptor because that man is thinking. You hate Michelangelo, because the church told him to make that penis small to make sure and not emphasize the sex side of things ... despite the rich folks around the church doing otherwise, of course!

To be a reviewer, and an honest one, yes, there are things you might not like, but state that and leave it at that, and perhaps even explain WHY you don't like it ... too many folks here say they don't like something and it is pretty obvious it is just a preference ... THEY NEVER TELL YOU WHY ... I'm betting my nickels they don't know ... and neither do you, when you make comments that are so disrespectful to the artistic community as a whole!

FREEDOM ... specially in the arts, is one of the most important things of all in our life ... and for the record ... IT WAS ONE OF THE MAIN DRIVES OF PROGRESSIVE MUSIC in those days ... but you have already dismissed all the social and political commentary on KC's early work ... because you don't like it!

SHAME on YOU!





Edited by moshkito - July 17 2019 at 07:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2019 at 08:05
Yeah, I guess that many humorless progholes are not agreeing with the spoofing of one album they should (and would otherwise) adore


Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

I wasn't a Tull fan back in the day, though I certainly liked some songs.  On the radio, one would hear a 5 minute excerpt of TAAB, even on the FM channels.  This didn't do it justice.  40 years later I properly discovered it...and I'd say it's one of the few in the top 10 that ISN'T overrated.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2019 at 12:19
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

This site is as usual torn into its two hemispheres. You have the moshkito anti genesis rant, siding with the emperors new clothes aficionados who wonder why an album of random noises and mind boggingly repetitious themes isnt valued by those people who have taken the saucepan off their heads and actually like a haunting melody or the power of the skillful arpegio or moving chord sequences....TAAB is an important concept album from 1972. And I have a mint vinyl copy in my vault. Part of my retirement fund if I can bear to sell it....

I like works of art ... I don't go around telling you that only a piece of Guernica (the left corner for you with a broken _______!), or a piece of the Mona Lisa (just half of her smile!), or a full frontal of Miro .... like so many folks around here do, is progressive and the rest is regressive! Pay attention to the line and comment plz!

I respect the artistic vision, and what/how these things are presented.

YOU DON'T ... and would rather postulate that the artist is WRONG in creating such ideas and visions, and then leaving us wondering what it means, and why waste vinyl space (then!) ... and my comment to you is ... go buy something else ... the Xes Pistols need your money a bit more than GENESIS!

I'm OK with you not understanding side 3 ... but saying it is crap because you don't like it, is out of line, and just shows how you disrespecting the artistic ideas and creativity. You don't like one sculptor because that man is thinking. You hate Michelangelo, because the church told him to make that penis small to make sure and not emphasize the sex side of things ... despite the rich folks around the church doing otherwise, of course!

To be a reviewer, and an honest one, yes, there are things you might not like, but state that and leave it at that, and perhaps even explain WHY you don't like it ... too many folks here say they don't like something and it is pretty obvious it is just a preference ... THEY NEVER TELL YOU WHY ... I'm betting my nickels they don't know ... and neither do you, when you make comments that are so disrespectful to the artistic community as a whole!

FREEDOM ... specially in the arts, is one of the most important things of all in our life ... and for the record ... IT WAS ONE OF THE MAIN DRIVES OF PROGRESSIVE MUSIC in those days ... but you have already dismissed all the social and political commentary on KC's early work ... because you don't like it!

SHAME on YOU!



Like I said - the emperor is most definitely stark bollock naked.... so go on, sue me....artist boy!
Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
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