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A Blogg that is also a Poll, Kansas in Rush

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Poll Question: Which song is most interesting
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
19 [51.35%]
18 [48.65%]
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Icarium View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A Blogg that is also a Poll, Kansas in Rush
    Posted: October 29 2019 at 16:15


This thread is going to be somewhat squished between two forms, it will take shape as a blog, but it will also be opinion talk, where votes will be allowed for "academically" reasons. I have given myself a little hiatus in creating polls (in two days). Because I want to focus on more cohesive and carefully constructed poll/blog - plogg perhaps it’s I will call it
😉, for fun. I want to channel two voices in a way, one is the enthusiastic "fanboy" whom with bias and intent looks forward to present songs or bands I care for, but I also have an interest to practice to apply sociological, aesthetic and musicological terminology/insight which works better in a blog format than in a poll.

I borrow some of the enthusiasme of these "overplayd" songs from two fellows that havent "overheard" them 

I love there insight in lyrics, and newb enthusiasme to aspects of the songs seasoned prog ears (perhaps) does not hear anymore

  

they sadly does not have a video about "Tom Sawyer" though they got plenty of Rush songs overall... Ouch


so i borrow  the enthusiasme from two others 

so words as taste, flavour, idea, form and content, have an aesthetic and sociological context/intent, two words/terms i want to voice is the difference between liking  and  appreciating  the distinction i will try to use in the future is from Rick Beato, in how he talks about production values whether it is about 00s pop song or 70s prog songs. The distinction between appreciating production technique vs liking a band (fan). Liking is about being a fan of the subject and appreciation is about respecting various parts of the subject one intersects, one can appreciate how a technique is used without liking the band one intersects, or well one can do both but in general there is a distinction. 

 

I want to present two songs which most here knows about which is Tom Sawyer  (1981) and Carry On Wayward Son (1976), both to me are such good examples of aspects which shows how both production is a key to songs, how composition is key but also how both are sort of archetypical  showcases of evolution of "heavy prog", though Kansas being symph prog, Carry on Wayward Son, is in its own right a heavy prog song, to my ears. But that is not the case of the discussion, just a detail. Both songs share some similarity’s, but I will also make it clear, i also regard Rush and Kansas as two wildly different animals/beasts in terms of the power which both bands individually have. Though they have some shallow similarity’s, but I won’t get into too much details. They both show equal strength and power in both these songs, which makes the songs sounds in some way similar. Despite that, both songs judged solely by themselves towards each other share some stark similarities. 

 

Key similarities, 

  • they are "inn your face" direct in how they begin
  • instantly recognisable, they have character/aura.
  • based on interviews i have read/heard by drummer of Rush, Neil Peart, he likes in general to improvise in most of Rush’s song catalogue, play various variations of tracks. EXCEPT Tom Sawyer, it must be played in the exact order as in how it is recorded in studio, almost to the ghost note precision. 
  • I don`t know if that is the exact case of Carry On, but i have a feel/sense that it might also be in that way also there, Phil Eheart have similar strictness in not to diviate  much in that exact form the drum is played, because the drums in that song are also "in a neat shape" so to play other ways would be wrong somehow. 
  • both have great enthusiasm in performance from the bands that plays them every note is ment, every beat is ment to be on the exact spot, the delivery and changes in the songs are on the dime. 
  • both bridge between prog in style and performance but with a public / commercial success story, crossover territory in such department 
  • both start the albums their on.  





Edited by Icarium - October 29 2019 at 17:49
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Fischman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fischman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2019 at 17:01
Oh, man!  I adamantly refuse to choose here.  Two absolutely perfect songs. No way to separate the two.  Period. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2019 at 17:18
Here is Vin and Sori reaction to Carry on Wayward Son to make a comparison between two reactionary youtube films 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2019 at 17:53
I like both equally. Which one is more interesting is a more difficult question for me to answer. I don't really know what Tom Sawyer is about(I'm pretty sure it's not about the Mark Twain novel. Lol.).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2019 at 17:56
Carry On Wayward Son is a great song indeed. Rush on the other hand are totally lost on me, at least when  they start singing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2019 at 18:14
Tough one..


Tom Sawyer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2019 at 19:13
I’ve grown a bit sick of carry on after all these years but I can’t deny it’s a great song. No vote.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkTower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2019 at 20:15
Both songs are great, but I have to go with Rush.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2019 at 20:24
not a fan of Kansas---american prog is not my thing--but love some of Rush's in your face stadium rock.Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enchant X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2019 at 21:46
 Carry On Wayward son is not my favorite Kansas song nor is Tom Sawyer from rush but still they are both excellent in what they achieve, both strong openers for classic albums.  I voted Kansas Carry on wayward son 

Edited by Enchant X - October 30 2019 at 07:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2019 at 22:18
Definitely Kansas 
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2019 at 00:55
I have never get bored with either even if they are 'overplayed'.

As studio pieces they cannot be improved. They are very much ensemble efforts and no one is taking all the plaudits. That said you have the amazingly talented Steve Walsh not only providing those great vocals but also one of the best organ breaks ever.
I remember listening to Tom Sawyer on the radio and it was an absolute joy to hear something with some real substance. I think the lyrics are similar to Subdivisions with a sense of being outside of everything looking in.

Anyway a vote for Kansas to even up things. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2019 at 01:13
Question: What are two reasons for me not to listen to classic rock radio?
Answer: "Tom Sawyer" and "Carry On Wayward Son".

I got really sick of both, to be honest. That said; good match-up.
Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2019 at 01:15
Kansas for me, mainly because I have six Kansas albums and only one Rush album. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2019 at 08:47
Carry on Wayward Son get my vote, though I also like the Rush option.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2019 at 08:57
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Kansas for me, mainly because I have six Kansas albums and only one Rush album. Smile


aren't we supposed to judge the two songs and choose?
your argument is irrelevant.




Edited by Cristi - October 31 2019 at 01:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Braka1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2019 at 09:35
Though i loved both these songs when they first came out, I'd say Tom Sawyer has aged much better. Both songs concern some sort of epic central character - the Kansas song addressed to him, the Rush one about him - but Rush comes across as more lyrically mature and conceptually sophisticated.

The song form and production of 'Tom Sawyer' sounds like something quite new and original. The Kansas song sounds a bit like like lots of pyrotechnic riffs and snappy solos strung together, however good they might be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2019 at 09:39
'Tom Sawyer' has more sci-fi elemnt to it and 'Carry on Wayward Son' more fantasy feel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TerLJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2019 at 09:46
I had to come back to this one to choose.  They are both overplayed, yes.  They are also both quality pieces from artists at the peak of their form.  
I have a personal affinity for Tom Sawyer, as my band used to play it back in the day.  It always got a huge response.  Not as complicated as some other Rush songs.  Super catchy, though.
I don't think we even attempted Kansas.  Intricate vocals, instant breaks, actually a pretty darn awesome prog song!  And it still stays melodic and singable.
You did not ask favorite however.  That's what swayed my vote.
Most interesting? Carry On My Wayward Sons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2019 at 10:43
Love both these songs and am glad they made it into the mainstream. Well deserved popularity. Voted for Kansas here. The song goes through so many radical changes in little time yet it all holds together perfectly. Tom Sawyer's transitions are difficult to perceive because they are so smooth. I also like the Kansas review better than the Rush review - more energetic and entertaining, yet the other pair got into more depth. Ying Yang
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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