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Second tier of "big" bands?
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I was going to include Gentle Giant and Van Der Graaf Generator in the third tier, if there IS a third tier. Smile

Well, if this is based on consensus then GG and VDGG would both make second tier(heck I've seen GG in the first tier). However, I see you are from the UK and to my understanding GG were never very big in their homeland. However, in the over all big picture they are usually the next band after KC in most lists that I have seen.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I agree. While I think Nektar, Gong and Focus are worthy of second tier I think ultimately it would have to be something like this:

Rush
Camel
Gentle Giant
VDGG
Renaissance
Kansas


Agree, although I would doubt between Kansas and Mike Oldfield, if only because Oldfield's huge historical influence on the genre with TB. At least in Europe nearly every family in the 70s had a copy of TB at home, while not so many would have Kansas albums.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Surely VDGG, GG and Camel need to be in the 2nd tier. I probably agree with Renaissance too.


I agree. While I think Nektar, Gong and Focus are worthy of second tier I think ultimately it would have to be something like this:

Rush
Camel
Gentle Giant
VDGG
Renaissance
Kansas

The Moodies I wouldn't put in there because they were a little too close to pop and not quite prog enough most of the time. If we put in the Moodies it seems to me we would also have to add ELO and Styx and maybe a few others and it would just keep snowballing.

I'd pretty ok with that version of the second tier, personally I'd find a way for Gong/Oldfield at the expense of Kansas/Renaissance but that's just my preference.
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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I'm not the biggest Renaissance fan either(although I like them)but someone mentioned them earlier and it seemed like a good idea to include them. Really it could be just about any band that most 70's prog heads were into besides the big five or six. What I mean is any band that toured a lot and or were fairly known just not at the very top tier level. Heck, you could even throw Tangerine Dream in the mix. :)

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 02 2019 at 08:18
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^^ Can there be anyone in England between the ages of 18 and 65 who hasn't heard of Emerson, Lake & Palmer? Smile


Yes, plenty!!!
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Surely VDGG, GG and Camel need to be in the 2nd tier. I probably agree with Renaissance too.


I agree. While I think Nektar, Gong and Focus are worthy of second tier I think ultimately it would have to be something like this:

Rush
Camel
Gentle Giant
VDGG
Renaissance
Kansas

The Moodies I wouldn't put in there because they were a little too close to pop and not quite prog enough most of the time. If we put in the Moodies it seems to me we would also have to add ELO and Styx and maybe a few others and it would just keep snowballing.

I'd pretty ok with that version of the second tier, personally I'd find a way for Gong/Oldfield at the expense of Kansas/Renaissance but that's just my preference.

As I wrote before, there's nothing special or law-like about the number 6. One can have a second tier with 7, 10, or 12 bands, no problem.

Can should be in.
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Surely VDGG, GG and Camel need to be in the 2nd tier. I probably agree with Renaissance too.


I agree. While I think Nektar, Gong and Focus are worthy of second tier I think ultimately it would have to be something like this:

Rush
Camel
Gentle Giant
VDGG
Renaissance
Kansas

The Moodies I wouldn't put in there because they were a little too close to pop and not quite prog enough most of the time. If we put in the Moodies it seems to me we would also have to add ELO and Styx and maybe a few others and it would just keep snowballing.

I'd pretty ok with that version of the second tier, personally I'd find a way for Gong/Oldfield at the expense of Kansas/Renaissance but that's just my preference.

As I wrote before, there's nothing special or law-like about the number 6. One can have a second tier with 7, 10, or 12 bands, no problem.

Can should be in.

I disagree with Can because they are more Krautrock and not really traditional prog. If you had them then you would have to have Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, Faust, Neu, Amon Duul II, Agitation Free, Popol Vuh and maybe a few others.
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Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^^ Can there be anyone in England between the ages of 18 and 65 who hasn't heard of Emerson, Lake & Palmer? Smile


Yes, plenty!!!
In that case, they're probably BBC Radio 1 listeners between the ages of 18 and 25. Smile
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

 No I haven't, but it still doesn't change the fact that hardly anyone in England will have heard of PFM or BDMS, no matter how good they are. Do they sing in English?

This is an international forum and website. Prog rock is international in scope. It really doesn't matter where a band is from to make any tier of "big" bands. If you would get off your English high horse, you would have noticed this a long time ago.
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^^ All I'm saying is the six English bands I've selected for the second tier are all much-better-known than the two lesser-well-known Italian bands, no matter how good they are. Smile
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On that basis Kansas, Rush and Dream Theater should be in your list.
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

On that basis Kansas, Rush and Dream Theater should be in your list.
 
Fair comment, but I'm biased towards British bands, as you may have noticed. Although the first tier of prog bands has been pretty much agreed upon, I don't think we're ever going to agree on who should be in the second tier, but that's all part of the fun.  Maybe we need separate tiers for each country. Smile
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

 No I haven't, but it still doesn't change the fact that hardly anyone in England will have heard of PFM or BDMS, no matter how good they are. Do they sing in English?

This is an international forum and website. Prog rock is international in scope. It really doesn't matter where a band is from to make any tier of "big" bands. If you would get off your English high horse, you would have noticed this a long time ago.
 
PFM and BDMS are both immensely popular bands, and not just in Italy, but among people in the North America and throughout Europe, so I am sure that even in England they must be known.  PP, if you want to base your list off of only English bands, then go ahead, but since you are on a site that recognizes international talent, don't get all huffy when someone else lists bands that might be more recognized than some of yours.  There are a few on your list that aren't quite as popular elsewhere, and I would think that at least PFM is more popular on a worldwide scale than BJH whether they sing in English or not, that doesn't matter.  By the way, they do sing in English and Italian both, and have performed worldwide.  I even own one of their albums recorded live in North America.  The forum is about opinions, so stick with yours and don't argue about other people's opinions when you don't know what you are saying.

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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:



I disagree with Can because they are more Krautrock and not really traditional prog. If you had them then you would have to have Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, Faust, Neu, Amon Duul II, Agitation Free, Popol Vuh and maybe a few others.

So Pink Floyd should not be in the big 6 because they're more psychedelic? Jethro Tull not because they're too folk or blues or whatnot, and if you have Genesis you need to have Marillion, too? That doesn't make sense. Can are original, unique and very influential, ask Brian Eno or the people who rate their albums on rateyourmusic or pitchfork. It's all opinion in the end and you can have yours, and sure one could argue TD or Kraftwerk as well (as others including PFM, Magma etc.) but they're really very different and by the way not actually classified as Kraut. And I don't think you'd find anyone in the world who thinks Agitation Free or even Faust are up with these.  


Edited by Lewian - December 02 2019 at 11:28
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

On that basis Kansas, Rush and Dream Theater should be in your list.
 
Fair comment, but I'm biased towards British bands, as you may have noticed. Although the first tier of prog bands has been pretty much agreed upon, I don't think we're ever going to agree on who should be in the second tier, but that's all part of the fun.  Maybe we need separate tiers for each country. Smile

Well WE'VE all agreed you are incorrect to omit GG & VDGG. We all seem to be ok with Camel. After that it looks like a crapshoot for the other spots & I'm ok with that.
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

On that basis Kansas, Rush and Dream Theater should be in your list.
 
Fair comment, but I'm biased towards British bands, as you may have noticed. Although the first tier of prog bands has been pretty much agreed upon, I don't think we're ever going to agree on who should be in the second tier, but that's all part of the fun.  Maybe we need separate tiers for each country. Smile

Except that you seem to be the only one who thinks that country matters. Hellooo?? It's music, it's about listening, not nationality.
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

On that basis Kansas, Rush and Dream Theater should be in your list.
 
Fair comment, but I'm biased towards British bands, as you may have noticed. Although the first tier of prog bands has been pretty much agreed upon, I don't think we're ever going to agree on who should be in the second tier, but that's all part of the fun.  Maybe we need separate tiers for each country. Smile

Well WE'VE all agreed you are incorrect to omit GG & VDGG. We all seem to be ok with Camel. After that it looks like a crapshoot for the other spots & I'm ok with that.
Well, maybe we need to expand the second tier then so there are eight bands instead of six and then we can add Gentle Giant and Van Der Graaf Generator. There's no rule that says the first or second tier has to be limited to only six bands. Smile
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

On that basis Kansas, Rush and Dream Theater should be in your list.
 
Fair comment, but I'm biased towards British bands, as you may have noticed. Although the first tier of prog bands has been pretty much agreed upon, I don't think we're ever going to agree on who should be in the second tier, but that's all part of the fun.  Maybe we need separate tiers for each country. Smile

Well WE'VE all agreed you are incorrect to omit GG & VDGG. We all seem to be ok with Camel. After that it looks like a crapshoot for the other spots & I'm ok with that.
Well, maybe we need to expand the second tier then so there are eight bands instead of six and then we can add Gentle Giant and Van Der Graaf Generator. There's no rule that says the first or second tier has to be limited to only six bands. Smile
 

You need some Italian Prog in your life!!!
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

As a general point about the PA Top 100 it bugs me that there are so many albums with less than a 1000 ratings in there when there are albums that have 4000 ratings. If you filter with a minimum of 1000 ratings then ELP's first four studio albums are in there and that is more representative in my opinion. There is too much 'fanboyism' distorting the list imo.
 
I decided to remove albums with less than 1000 ratings as you suggest. The two lists then becomes:
 
Based on their highest rated album in the Top 100 list, the top 6 artists are:
 
Yes
Genesis
Pink Floyd
King Crimson
Jethro Tull
Van Der Graaf Generator
 
and the next 6 artists are:
 
Camel
Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM)
Rush
Änglagård
Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso
Harmonium
 

Based on the number of albums in the Top 100 list, the top 6 artists are:
 
Genesis
Gentle Giant
Pink Floyd
King Crimson
Van Der Graaf Generator
Rush
 
and the next 7 artists are:
 
Yes
Opeth
Dream Theater
Porcupine Tree
Riverside
Marillion
Emerson Lake & Palmer
 
 
 
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Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

On that basis Kansas, Rush and Dream Theater should be in your list.
 
Fair comment, but I'm biased towards British bands, as you may have noticed. Although the first tier of prog bands has been pretty much agreed upon, I don't think we're ever going to agree on who should be in the second tier, but that's all part of the fun.  Maybe we need separate tiers for each country. Smile

Well WE'VE all agreed you are incorrect to omit GG & VDGG. We all seem to be ok with Camel. After that it looks like a crapshoot for the other spots & I'm ok with that.
Well, maybe we need to expand the second tier then so there are eight bands instead of six and then we can add Gentle Giant and Van Der Graaf Generator. There's no rule that says the first or second tier has to be limited to only six bands. Smile
 

You need some Italian Prog in your life!!!
 
YES I DO!! Wink
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