Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Top 10s and lists
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Second tier of "big" bands?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Second tier of "big" bands?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4567>
Author
Message
AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 8731
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 13:51
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:



I disagree with Can because they are more Krautrock and not really traditional prog. If you had them then you would have to have Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, Faust, Neu, Amon Duul II, Agitation Free, Popol Vuh and maybe a few others.

So Pink Floyd should not be in the big 6 because they're more psychedelic? Jethro Tull not because they're too folk or blues or whatnot, and if you have Genesis you need to have Marillion, too? That doesn't make sense. Can are original, unique and very influential, ask Brian Eno or the people who rate their albums on rateyourmusic or pitchfork. It's all opinion in the end and you can have yours, and sure one could argue TD or Kraftwerk as well (as others including PFM, Magma etc.) but they're really very different and by the way not actually classified as Kraut. And I don't think you'd find anyone in the world who thinks Agitation Free or even Faust are up with these.  

Pink Floyd were popular enough(in fact the most popular by far imo)that they pretty much indisputably belong there. Besides they were never really krautrock and sound enough like the other bands. Jethro Tull could make a big six list. I never said anything about Marillion(or PF or Tull for that matter) so please don't put words in mouth. My main argument is that the krautrock bands I listed are all about as well known and as influential as the others. Can are about on par with TD and AD2 so if we had Can in there we would have to have them in also and it could easily snowball from there. We all have to draw the line somewhere. You have yours and I have mine. I don't dislike can but imo they really belong on a list with other "krautrock" bands and yes Can are definitely considered krautrock(as are TD and Kraftwerk but I suppose it depends on the music site and how they label things). I would never put them on a list without TD personally but that's just me I suppose. Yes, it's all opinion. I'm going more by over all popularity especially within prog circles not my personal taste so much and because of that some subgenres get left out. If it was only about my personal taste then Camel and VDGG might make the big six.




Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 02 2019 at 14:10
When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 8926
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 14:07
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:



I disagree with Can because they are more Krautrock and not really traditional prog. If you had them then you would have to have Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, Faust, Neu, Amon Duul II, Agitation Free, Popol Vuh and maybe a few others.

So Pink Floyd should not be in the big 6 because they're more psychedelic? Jethro Tull not because they're too folk or blues or whatnot, and if you have Genesis you need to have Marillion, too? That doesn't make sense. Can are original, unique and very influential, ask Brian Eno or the people who rate their albums on rateyourmusic or pitchfork. It's all opinion in the end and you can have yours, and sure one could argue TD or Kraftwerk as well (as others including PFM, Magma etc.) but they're really very different and by the way not actually classified as Kraut. And I don't think you'd find anyone in the world who thinks Agitation Free or even Faust are up with these.  

Pink Floyd were popular enough(in fact the most popular by far imo)that they pretty much indisputably belong there. Besides they were never really krautrock and sound enough like the other bands. Jethro Tull could make a big six list. I never said anything about Marillion(or PF or Tull for that matter) so please don't put words in mouth. My main argument is that the krautrock bands I listed are all about as well known and as influential as the others. Can are about on par with TD and AD2 so if we had Can in there we would have to have them in also and it could easily snowball from there. We all have to draw the line somewhere. You have yours and I have mine. I don't dislike can but imo they really belong on a list with other "krautrock" bands. I would never put them on a list without TD personally but that's just me I suppose. Yes, it's all opinion. I'm going more by over all popularity especially within prog circles not my personal taste so much and because of that some subgenres get left out. If it was only about my personal taste then Camel and VDGG might make the big six.

Ahem. You are obviously misinformed about Can. They are one of the most influential bands ever.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 8731
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 14:11
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:



I disagree with Can because they are more Krautrock and not really traditional prog. If you had them then you would have to have Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, Faust, Neu, Amon Duul II, Agitation Free, Popol Vuh and maybe a few others.

So Pink Floyd should not be in the big 6 because they're more psychedelic? Jethro Tull not because they're too folk or blues or whatnot, and if you have Genesis you need to have Marillion, too? That doesn't make sense. Can are original, unique and very influential, ask Brian Eno or the people who rate their albums on rateyourmusic or pitchfork. It's all opinion in the end and you can have yours, and sure one could argue TD or Kraftwerk as well (as others including PFM, Magma etc.) but they're really very different and by the way not actually classified as Kraut. And I don't think you'd find anyone in the world who thinks Agitation Free or even Faust are up with these.  

Pink Floyd were popular enough(in fact the most popular by far imo)that they pretty much indisputably belong there. Besides they were never really krautrock and sound enough like the other bands. Jethro Tull could make a big six list. I never said anything about Marillion(or PF or Tull for that matter) so please don't put words in mouth. My main argument is that the krautrock bands I listed are all about as well known and as influential as the others. Can are about on par with TD and AD2 so if we had Can in there we would have to have them in also and it could easily snowball from there. We all have to draw the line somewhere. You have yours and I have mine. I don't dislike can but imo they really belong on a list with other "krautrock" bands. I would never put them on a list without TD personally but that's just me I suppose. Yes, it's all opinion. I'm going more by over all popularity especially within prog circles not my personal taste so much and because of that some subgenres get left out. If it was only about my personal taste then Camel and VDGG might make the big six.

Ahem. You are obviously misinformed about Can. They are one of the most influential bands ever.

They are very influential in musician and hardcore music fan circles. Your average person, even casual music fans have barely heard of them if at all. There's a big difference between popularity and influence though. The Velvet Underground are influential too. When is the last time you heard them or Can for that matter on the radio? But this is about prog and the prog community. No disrespect to Can or those who like them but other than Lewian no one else has mentioned them as a candidate for second tier so don't shoot the messenger. If we were compiling a list of the most influential bands among indie or experimental artists sure Can would be up there with the Velvet Underground, Sonic Youth, Brian Eno, the Stooges, Tom Waits or who have you but for over all prog not so much. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 02 2019 at 14:26
When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
Back to Top
Dellinger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 10099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 14:11
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

From the time I first discovered Prog until right now, when I think 'Prog' the 3 artists that immediately come to mind are Classic Yes, Classic Genesis, and ELP. That's it. To me that's Prog. Now when I hear artists like VdGG, Camel, GG.. my ears tell me 'it's Prog.'

Ok, of course King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull are all great. First tier? sure.

But still, for me personally, Prog is Genesis, Yes, and ELP.. always.


My thoughts are, if we are going with the big 6, it's the one usually thrown in. But in my mind it could easily go into a big 4, leaving Yes, King Crimson, ELP, and Genesis. And still, if pressed on it, I think it could go into a big 3, with Yes, ELP, and Genesis (though I guess an argument could be made to put in King Crimson instead of ELP or Genesis).
Back to Top
AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 8731
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 14:23
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

From the time I first discovered Prog until right now, when I think 'Prog' the 3 artists that immediately come to mind are Classic Yes, Classic Genesis, and ELP. That's it. To me that's Prog. Now when I hear artists like VdGG, Camel, GG.. my ears tell me 'it's Prog.'

Ok, of course King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull are all great. First tier? sure.

But still, for me personally, Prog is Genesis, Yes, and ELP.. always.


My thoughts are, if we are going with the big 6, it's the one usually thrown in. But in my mind it could easily go into a big 4, leaving Yes, King Crimson, ELP, and Genesis. And still, if pressed on it, I think it could go into a big 3, with Yes, ELP, and Genesis (though I guess an argument could be made to put in King Crimson instead of ELP or Genesis).

That sounds good to me. It would be difficult to leave out PF though. ELP unfortunately hasn't aged so well and I don't think there are that many newer bands influenced by them but if we just go by over all popularity which is what I thought we were doing then they should be in there.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 02 2019 at 14:24
When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 8926
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 14:34
Popularity is in my opinion never what one should go for when naming someone "big", else Rosamund Pilcher would have to be considered a better author than James Joyce.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 8731
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 15:21
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Popularity is in my opinion never what one should go for when naming someone "big", else Rosamund Pilcher would have to be considered a better author than James Joyce.

It depends on the audience. I just noticed James Joyce has way more ratings on goodreads than her but then again that is a book geek site. On a site like this(a prog geek site) King Crimson and Yes have more ratings than most other bands and in some cases even more than Pink Floyd and Rush. Go somewhere that isn't prog only(such as classic rock) and the KC and Yes ratings would fall drastically.
When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
Back to Top
BrufordFreak View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 3603
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 16:48
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:



I disagree with Can because they are more Krautrock and not really traditional prog. If you had them then you would have to have Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, Faust, Neu, Amon Duul II, Agitation Free, Popol Vuh and maybe a few others.

So Pink Floyd should not be in the big 6 because they're more psychedelic? Jethro Tull not because they're too folk or blues or whatnot, and if you have Genesis you need to have Marillion, too? That doesn't make sense. Can are original, unique and very influential, ask Brian Eno or the people who rate their albums on rateyourmusic or pitchfork. It's all opinion in the end and you can have yours, and sure one could argue TD or Kraftwerk as well (as others including PFM, Magma etc.) but they're really very different and by the way not actually classified as Kraut. And I don't think you'd find anyone in the world who thinks Agitation Free or even Faust are up with these.  

Pink Floyd were popular enough(in fact the most popular by far imo)that they pretty much indisputably belong there. Besides they were never really krautrock and sound enough like the other bands. Jethro Tull could make a big six list. I never said anything about Marillion(or PF or Tull for that matter) so please don't put words in mouth. My main argument is that the krautrock bands I listed are all about as well known and as influential as the others. Can are about on par with TD and AD2 so if we had Can in there we would have to have them in also and it could easily snowball from there. We all have to draw the line somewhere. You have yours and I have mine. I don't dislike can but imo they really belong on a list with other "krautrock" bands. I would never put them on a list without TD personally but that's just me I suppose. Yes, it's all opinion. I'm going more by over all popularity especially within prog circles not my personal taste so much and because of that some subgenres get left out. If it was only about my personal taste then Camel and VDGG might make the big six.

Ahem. You are obviously misinformed about Can. They are one of the most influential bands ever.

They are very influential in musician and hardcore music fan circles. Your average person, even casual music fans have barely heard of them if at all. There's a big difference between popularity and influence though. The Velvet Underground are influential too. When is the last time you heard them or Can for that matter on the radio? But this is about prog and the prog community. No disrespect to Can or those who like them but other than Lewian no one else has mentioned them as a candidate for second tier so don't shoot the messenger. If we were compiling a list of the most influential bands among indie or experimental artists sure Can would be up there with the Velvet Underground, Sonic Youth, Brian Eno, the Stooges, Tom Waits or who have you but for over all prog not so much. 

Sorry, guys! I've been gone! (Happy Thanksgiving, y'all!)
As I was trying to make clear, I was thinking of influence when I created this post. Which bands have had a greater/impact/influence on other artists/bands/prog rock in general. I don't think one can argue with the fact that the ELP sound was one of the biggest when one thinks of influence. Tull maybe less so. Crimson, Genesis, Yes, for sure--in terms of impact/influence they've had on other artists. GG and VDGG with Tull. But then who are next? I think both Can and Tangerine Dream need to be included. Have Änglagård and Dream Theater and Marillion had as great an impact/influence on other artists? ? ? 
Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
Back to Top
AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 8731
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 17:09
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:



I disagree with Can because they are more Krautrock and not really traditional prog. If you had them then you would have to have Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, Faust, Neu, Amon Duul II, Agitation Free, Popol Vuh and maybe a few others.

So Pink Floyd should not be in the big 6 because they're more psychedelic? Jethro Tull not because they're too folk or blues or whatnot, and if you have Genesis you need to have Marillion, too? That doesn't make sense. Can are original, unique and very influential, ask Brian Eno or the people who rate their albums on rateyourmusic or pitchfork. It's all opinion in the end and you can have yours, and sure one could argue TD or Kraftwerk as well (as others including PFM, Magma etc.) but they're really very different and by the way not actually classified as Kraut. And I don't think you'd find anyone in the world who thinks Agitation Free or even Faust are up with these.  

Pink Floyd were popular enough(in fact the most popular by far imo)that they pretty much indisputably belong there. Besides they were never really krautrock and sound enough like the other bands. Jethro Tull could make a big six list. I never said anything about Marillion(or PF or Tull for that matter) so please don't put words in mouth. My main argument is that the krautrock bands I listed are all about as well known and as influential as the others. Can are about on par with TD and AD2 so if we had Can in there we would have to have them in also and it could easily snowball from there. We all have to draw the line somewhere. You have yours and I have mine. I don't dislike can but imo they really belong on a list with other "krautrock" bands. I would never put them on a list without TD personally but that's just me I suppose. Yes, it's all opinion. I'm going more by over all popularity especially within prog circles not my personal taste so much and because of that some subgenres get left out. If it was only about my personal taste then Camel and VDGG might make the big six.

Ahem. You are obviously misinformed about Can. They are one of the most influential bands ever.

They are very influential in musician and hardcore music fan circles. Your average person, even casual music fans have barely heard of them if at all. There's a big difference between popularity and influence though. The Velvet Underground are influential too. When is the last time you heard them or Can for that matter on the radio? But this is about prog and the prog community. No disrespect to Can or those who like them but other than Lewian no one else has mentioned them as a candidate for second tier so don't shoot the messenger. If we were compiling a list of the most influential bands among indie or experimental artists sure Can would be up there with the Velvet Underground, Sonic Youth, Brian Eno, the Stooges, Tom Waits or who have you but for over all prog not so much. 

Sorry, guys! I've been gone! (Happy Thanksgiving, y'all!)
As I was trying to make clear, I was thinking of influence when I created this post. Which bands have had a greater/impact/influence on other artists/bands/prog rock in general. I don't think one can argue with the fact that the ELP sound was one of the biggest when one thinks of influence. Tull maybe less so. Crimson, Genesis, Yes, for sure--in terms of impact/influence they've had on other artists. GG and VDGG with Tull. But then who are next? I think both Can and Tangerine Dream need to be included. Have Änglagård and Dream Theater and Marillion had as great an impact/influence on other artists? ? ? 

I think there's a lot of bands who have a sound where you can tell Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd and even ELP were an influence. I personally haven't heard many(if any)bands who have the same rhythmic pulse Can had. I know a lot of electronic musicians were influenced by Tangerine Dream. Prog? Maybe not so much but I would still say they fall into the general umbrella of prog. Marillion have certainly had an impact on neo prog and DT have certainly had an impact on prog metal. Anglagard? I'm not sure actually but probably not so much. Also, I think popularity helps a band become influential. Sure, there are some exceptions but are there really that many obscure prog bands you would say are really influential? 
When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
Back to Top
jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2015
Location: Milano
Status: Offline
Points: 2086
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 18:41
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

How can two obscure Italian bands possibly be in the second tier when Prog-Rock originated in England? Confused
I doubt if hardly anyone in England has even heard of Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) or
Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso, so how can they be "big" bands?

Are you Italian? I'm sensing there may be a bit of bias here. Tongue


Dear Paul, 

1) They are not obscure bands 

2) In England, in other European states, and in America, many prog lovers know those bands, and in fact they are in the first places of this ranking that, if I don't see badly, is written in English, and on a site based in America 

3) You Ask: Are You Italian? Look, then you don't know Italians, who are Europe's most xenophilic and self-critical people: in the prog rankings that are made in Italy, Italian groups are often underestimated.




Edited by jamesbaldwin - December 02 2019 at 18:45
"Happiness is real only when shared"
Back to Top
YESESIS View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 26 2017
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 2149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2019 at 19:57
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Sorry, guys! I've been gone! (Happy Thanksgiving, y'all!)
As I was trying to make clear, I was thinking of influence when I created this post. Which bands have had a greater/impact/influence on other artists/bands/prog rock in general. I don't think one can argue with the fact that the ELP sound was one of the biggest when one thinks of influence. Tull maybe less so. Crimson, Genesis, Yes, for sure--in terms of impact/influence they've had on other artists. GG and VDGG with Tull. But then who are next? I think both Can and Tangerine Dream need to be included. Have Änglagård and Dream Theater and Marillion had as great an impact/influence on other artists? ? ? 


Exactly, thank you! And just importance to the genre. I think any kind of leaving them out of a 'Big 6' or even 'Big 4' is forgetting the past a little bit and trying to rewrite history.
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 17399
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2019 at 00:23
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

As a general point about the PA Top 100 it bugs me that there are so many albums with less than a 1000 ratings in there when there are albums that have 4000 ratings. If you filter with a minimum of 1000 ratings then ELP's first four studio albums are in there and that is more representative in my opinion. There is too much 'fanboyism' distorting the list imo.
 
I decided to remove albums with less than 1000 ratings as you suggest. The two lists then becomes:
 
Based on their highest rated album in the Top 100 list, the top 6 artists are:
 
Yes
Genesis
Pink Floyd
King Crimson
Jethro Tull
Van Der Graaf Generator
 
and the next 6 artists are:
 
Camel
Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM)
Rush
Änglagård
Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso
Harmonium
 

Based on the number of albums in the Top 100 list, the top 6 artists are:
 
Genesis
Gentle Giant
Pink Floyd
King Crimson
Van Der Graaf Generator
Rush
 
and the next 7 artists are:
 
Yes
Opeth
Dream Theater
Porcupine Tree
Riverside
Marillion
Emerson Lake & Palmer
 
 
 
 

so ELP just about scrape in to the bottom list!

The third list is very interesting as Yes get squeezed out mainly presumably because Topographic Oceans and Going for The One are not there which is a bit surprising maybe. It seems their legendary status is based more on just a few albums and much like Camel and ELP they couldn't sustain it.
Back to Top
Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team

Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 10960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2019 at 11:22
If you look at the top 100 albums and group them by artist to get a artist QWR average rating and remove artists with less than 2000 ratings they break out as follows:

Artist QWR
King Crimson   4.55
Pink Floyd   4.53
Jethro Tull   4.51
Genesis   4.47
Yes   4.46

VDGG   4.39
Camel   4.36
Rush   4.34
Banco   4.34
PFM   4.34

Based on pure total ratings by artist in the top 100 you get

Total Ratings
Genesis   16076
Pink Floyd   14803
Yes   13602
King Crimson   10126
Rush   9270

Gentle Giant   7939
VDGG   7165
Camel   7086
Jethro Tull   5794
Dream Theater   5737

Not too bad.



Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - December 03 2019 at 11:28
Ian




Back to Top
Dellinger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 10099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2019 at 12:41
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

From the time I first discovered Prog until right now, when I think 'Prog' the 3 artists that immediately come to mind are Classic Yes, Classic Genesis, and ELP. That's it. To me that's Prog. Now when I hear artists like VdGG, Camel, GG.. my ears tell me 'it's Prog.'

Ok, of course King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull are all great. First tier? sure.

But still, for me personally, Prog is Genesis, Yes, and ELP.. always.


My thoughts are, if we are going with the big 6, it's the one usually thrown in. But in my mind it could easily go into a big 4, leaving Yes, King Crimson, ELP, and Genesis. And still, if pressed on it, I think it could go into a big 3, with Yes, ELP, and Genesis (though I guess an argument could be made to put in King Crimson instead of ELP or Genesis).


That sounds good to me. It would be difficult to leave out PF though. ELP unfortunately hasn't aged so well and I don't think there are that many newer bands influenced by them but if we just go by over all popularity which is what I thought we were doing then they should be in there.



Pink Floyd is my very favourite band, however I don't find it difficult to leave out of the big 4 or big 3 because the sound is different, and even though I definitley think they are prog, they are not quintessential prog like the other 4.
Back to Top
Gerinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 4480
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2019 at 12:57
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

If you look at the top 100 albums and group them by artist to get a artist QWR average rating and remove artists with less than 2000 ratings they break out as follows:

Artist QWR
King Crimson   4.55
Pink Floyd   4.53
Jethro Tull   4.51
Genesis   4.47
Yes   4.46

VDGG   4.39
Camel   4.36
Rush   4.34
Banco   4.34
PFM   4.34

Based on pure total ratings by artist in the top 100 you get

Total Ratings
Genesis   16076
Pink Floyd   14803
Yes   13602
King Crimson   10126
Rush   9270

Gentle Giant   7939
VDGG   7165
Camel   7086
Jethro Tull   5794
Dream Theater   5737

Not too bad.


ELP needs to be there, regardless of what the cold figures may say.

Back to Top
Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team

Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 10960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2019 at 13:06
I don't disagree with you considering their influence, if I ignore the fact that 3 of their first 4 albums aren't in the top 100 then their number of rankings would put them in the second 5.
Ian




Back to Top
YESESIS View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 26 2017
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 2149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YESESIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2019 at 19:43
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

If you look at the top 100 albums and group them by artist to get a artist QWR average rating and remove artists with less than 2000 ratings they break out as follows:

Artist QWR
King Crimson   4.55
Pink Floyd   4.53
Jethro Tull   4.51
Genesis   4.47
Yes   4.46

VDGG   4.39
Camel   4.36
Rush   4.34
Banco   4.34
PFM   4.34

Based on pure total ratings by artist in the top 100 you get

Total Ratings
Genesis   16076
Pink Floyd   14803
Yes   13602
King Crimson   10126
Rush   9270

Gentle Giant   7939
VDGG   7165
Camel   7086
Jethro Tull   5794
Dream Theater   5737

Not too bad.


ELP needs to be there, regardless of what the cold figures may say.

Back to Top
BrufordFreak View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 3603
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2019 at 21:01
While Floyd, ELP, the Moodies, and even Tull were posting "hit" singles as well as chart-topping albums, other neophyte artists were being blown away by The White Album, The Velvet Underground, The Court of The Crimson King, David Bowie, Roxy, Fragile, Foxtrot, and Hendrix. My point is: hits, sales, radio play did not necessary create influence. How many artists attribute life- (and career-)changing effects to the little known Velvet Underground debut album? How many future prog or progressive rock artists/dabblers express a similar gratitude to ITCoTCK or Bitches Brew or early Soft Machine? 

Why are Italian bands--as wonderfully received and acclaimed as many of their 1971-76 albums are--not considered for these discussions? Because everyone believes that they rose up as a reaction to what was happening in England, thus are not seminal bands in and of themselves. (Damn those Brits for touring the opera-loving peninsula of Italy!) 

Rush, too, was a product of a reaction to other bands (in particular, Yes). 

I ramble. (It's late where I am.)

Á la prochaine! 
Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
Back to Top
Dellinger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 10099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 13:19
^ I would think that if Rush was a product of reaction to Yes, Led Zeppelin would be just as important to their formula.
Back to Top
Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 16 2019
Location: Nottingham, U.K
Status: Offline
Points: 8012
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2019 at 13:27
From what I've heard of Italian Prog so far, it's very good indeed, but I wouldn't include them in the second tier "Big Six", simply because they're not nearly as well-known as the six British bands I mentioned, even though the Italian bands are every bit as good as the British bands, regardless of whether or not they sing in their native Italian language. I particularly like the Latin language albums of Jacula and Antonius Rex (same band, different name). Smile
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4567>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.149 seconds.

Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.