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Why is the Soft Machine missing in the Top 100?

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    Posted: May 21 2021 at 10:47
If it's any consolation, I could never get into the Soft Machine side of the Canterbury sub-genre either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 10:40
^ It looks like I just lost my bet. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 10:31
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

There's probably a lot of important and or classic albums that aren't in the top 100. Confused

I bet Khan's Space Shanty album isn't in the Top 100 either, even though it's a highly-regarded Canterbury Scene album. 

What are we betting? I'd love footy season tickets. I'll be kind and stay on the cheap side of Trent and take Magpies' tickets (spoiler: they have been my adopted English underdog for some time).

Anyway, Space Shanty is 71. I would argue that is a bit lofty. But to each, there own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 10:07
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

There's probably a lot of important and or classic albums that aren't in the top 100. Confused

I bet Khan's Space Shanty album isn't in the Top 100 either, even though it's a highly-regarded Canterbury Scene album. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 09:53
There's probably a lot of important and or classic albums that aren't in the top 100. Confused

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - May 21 2021 at 09:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 07:38
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I listened to the Soft Machine 3 album again recently, but I STILL couldn't get into their music, even though I generally like Canterbury Scene music.

Hi,

In general, you have to drop off any ideas about "music" and what it is supposed to have or not have. 

In those days, the "difference" was important, and helped make the music come alive, but what you are saying is that there weren't any bands in NY, SF, LA, Paris, Tokyo. Rome ... that did not do the same thing or differently so.

If you listen to ANYTHING with ideas or thoughts about the things that "you like" ... too many of the new things you hear will not click. 

One of the highlights of my career of having music around me, has been ... when you hear so much and enjoy so much ... you can not even decide which is better or worse ... because you learn to fly and flow with all of it regardless ... and SOFT MACHINE was not a weird one ... it was a well defined thing that changed a lot and made sure it did not get stuck in "jazz standards" ... let's just say that it was Miles non stop ... something that a lot of folks here can not handle at all! But they can handle RW repeating his riffs on another synthesizer to give you an idea of what "musicianship" is all about! 

You can also get a better idea about all this if you read Robert Wyatt's book ... one of the best ever written, and the understanding and appreciation for something different, comes alive ... but, sadly, it is not something that most "progressive" folks can stomach ... how sad that is ... the end of progressive music!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 07:29
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

In the Top 100 there are all the main Canterbury groups: Caravan, Gong, Hatfield and the North except what I consider the main group, the Soft Machine. Their first three albums (and even others) are fantastic, yet they are not present in PA's Top 100.

How do you explain it?

1) Because they did very good albums but not a great masterpiece

2) Because they make more jazz rock than progressive music

3) Because not everyone likes Wyatt's pataphysical voice

4) Because they are too difficult, not very commercial, not easy listening

5) Because............ Why ???


Hi,

This is one of the reasons why the TOP 100 should not have the same band listed for another album within it ... instead it should say "Band A - 1, 2 and 3" or something similar.

Were the list trimmed down from the over abundance of crap listed and 3 and 4 albums by at least a few bands, the list would easily include 15 to 20 other bands ... but, again, my concern is that the list is not about the music ... it's about FANBOYS and FANDOM!

So sad to think that was originally started as "progressive" music became only known for its "fanstuff" ... and not the music itself ... how weird, and off center is that? And it destroys the ability of new bands to create new material, because now it's not about the music, it's about the "sound" ... !!!! Tongue   (... ohhh I forgot ... the blue guitar and the flaming organ and the .... for those that don't know what music is all about!)


Edited by moshkito - May 21 2021 at 07:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 06:23
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Third got review bombed by a few people who didn’t immediately love it or understand it after a single listen. Anyways, I think Bundles is their best album, but I know that’s unpopular.

Don't worry, you're not the only one. I much prefer Bundles to Soft Machine's earlier albums too. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 05:56
Very strange. Maybe it's another case of "it's not symphonic prog!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 05:48
Third got review bombed by a few people who didn’t immediately love it or understand it after a single listen. Anyways, I think Bundles is their best album, but I know that’s unpopular.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 05:11
Hard to explain given that both Third and Fourth charted in the UK (the first album made Billboard in the US).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 02:46
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

The other thing that occurred to me is that albums become a lot less memorable when they don't have a proper name. I really hate it when artists just go 1,2,3 etc. WTF . Pick a proper name ffs. For this reason I'm more likely to play Bundles than an album just called 3 or Third.

If an album is great, it can be nameless and no one cares (like Led Zeppelin ZoSo or IV or whatever it is).

And Black Sabbath Vol. 4 is and always will be Black Sabbath Vol. 4 (and you can picture the album cover as soon as you mention Vol. 4). Of course, Led Zeppelin I, II or III come to mind as albums one knows right off the bat as not needing a proper title.

But it can get out of hand. Once you get past the first VI or VII Chicago albums, it gets confusing. I think they're up to XXXVI or something. One needs an abacus after a while.
 

but your talking about Black Sabbath and Led Zep . They could get away with anything back in the day but that also flows through to the present.IMO 

I just saw this, about a year late. What about Peter Gabriel? His first few albums just had odd pictures on the cover, and folks just shrugged and gave them equally weird names after the fact (Car, Scratch, Melt). Then he started using two-letter adverbs, adjectives and pronouns: So, Up, Us. LOL

I've never had a problem with the first 4 PG albums (it's actually one of my go-to music quiz questions) in fact I never knew they had these other titles such as "Melt" until I joined PA.
I'm ok with So but still get confused by Up and Us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 02:34
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Indeed
The perfect warm up music for Bloodsport, Kickboxer and Double Impact.


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I was crazy about those tracks when I was a little kid. Bruce Springsteen-like cadence and a healthy shot of 80s testosteron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grubert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 01:45
But actually Land of Cockayne is not really a SM album. It was a solo album by one of their members, who btw  wasn't one of the legendary original members, and that album was just sold under the SM moniker, and nobody cared for that then.

Hmm, I never tried to hear that. I actually stopped with Seven (which is already way weaker than the previous albums), and have only a CD sampler of their later output, and this sampler rightfully does not contain material from the Cockayne land.

The real great SM stuff I do find on the albums Third to Six, but I like their more pop like earlier albums also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 01:23
I wouldn't expect Soft Machine to have Bundles of albums in the Top 100, but I would've expected to see at least one album there and hopefully it would be Land of Cockayne - not to be confused with the Eric Clapton song: Land of Cocaine. Tongue

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - May 21 2021 at 01:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2021 at 00:42
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Indeed
The perfect warm up music for Bloodsport, Kickboxer and Double Impact.

My body's ready; my heart's on fire; gonna push it over the wire!

Everybody loves a winner; everyone can see that I am; everybody follows the leader; cruising through the streets of Siam!

Paul Hertzog if I'm not mistaken Cool.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Crimson Mellotron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2021 at 23:10
I honestly don't know... 'Third' should definitely be there, but it's not. Nothing we can do. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2021 at 17:31
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

The other thing that occurred to me is that albums become a lot less memorable when they don't have a proper name. I really hate it when artists just go 1,2,3 etc. WTF . Pick a proper name ffs. For this reason I'm more likely to play Bundles than an album just called 3 or Third.

If an album is great, it can be nameless and no one cares (like Led Zeppelin ZoSo or IV or whatever it is).

And Black Sabbath Vol. 4 is and always will be Black Sabbath Vol. 4 (and you can picture the album cover as soon as you mention Vol. 4). Of course, Led Zeppelin I, II or III come to mind as albums one knows right off the bat as not needing a proper title.

But it can get out of hand. Once you get past the first VI or VII Chicago albums, it gets confusing. I think they're up to XXXVI or something. One needs an abacus after a while.
 

but your talking about Black Sabbath and Led Zep . They could get away with anything back in the day but that also flows through to the present.IMO 

I just saw this, about a year late. What about Peter Gabriel? His first few albums just had odd pictures on the cover, and folks just shrugged and gave them equally weird names after the fact (Car, Scratch, Melt). Then he started using two-letter adverbs, adjectives and pronouns: So, Up, Us. LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Intruder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2021 at 17:20
Came to the site looking for a review of the Softs at the Paradiso, which I saw in a record shop for $5 on CD; I was wary of the sound quality, so I wanted to get opinions, but when I cruised the Top 100 for a Soft album to click on to lead me to their page, I couldn't find any of their albums on the bloody list!  I saw their brother bands - Caravan, Khan, the Hatfields, Gong, even a Wyatt album, but no Soft Machine.

Didn't Three used to be a Top 20 PA album?  Either way, I'd take Three over a chunk of that list.....and Three is probably my fifth or sixth favorite Softs album.




Edited by Intruder - May 20 2021 at 17:21
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2020 at 03:42
That reminds me. How many are Focus up to by now? I seem to remember the album 11...yet if you count how many albums they’ve released...well the numbers don’t add up...unless PA has got it all wrong of course (which is likely)
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