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Will PA ever label genres by album?

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Failcore View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Failcore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2020 at 23:57
Yeah, migrating the most likely simple schema used for the site's data probably wouldn't be that difficult. Maintaining integration with the forums might be difficult, but that really doesn't seem like a deal killer to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 00:17
Am I the only one here who thinks the current system of assigning one genre to one artist is perfect as it stands now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 00:45
Well, I would not say it´s perfect, but I quess it´s the only way now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 00:57
I would say it’s certainly not perfect because kind of blue, a jazz album, nothing prog about it, is listed as the number one jazz fusion album of all time. Opeth, a band that is now in the heavy prog genre is listed as extreme/tech prog metal. Steven Wilson who has albums that are more in line with eclectic or symphonic prog is listed as crossover prog (which is accurate for some albums) yes, who hasn’t really released a symphonic prog album since maybe drama is listed as such.

Point is genres are not one size fits all, especially for prog artists who are constantly changing their sound.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 01:30
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Am I the only one here who thinks the current system of assigning one genre to one artist is perfect as it stands now?
 

as long as it's the correct one then maybe

Vangelis is apparently Prog Related and not the more obvious Progressive Electronic. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 03:17
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Am I the only one here who thinks the current system of assigning one genre to one artist is perfect as it stands now?
 

as long as it's the correct one then maybe

Vangelis is apparently Prog Related and not the more obvious Progressive Electronic. Confused
Yes, it would make a lot more sense for Vangelis to be in Progressive Electronic. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 05:12
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Am I the only one here who thinks the current system of assigning one genre to one artist is perfect as it stands now?
 

as long as it's the correct one then maybe

Vangelis is apparently Prog Related and not the more obvious Progressive Electronic. Confused
Yes, it would make a lot more sense for Vangelis to be in Progressive Electronic. Smile


I'd even say that David Bedford is also misplaced.... IMHO, he should be in Avant Prog


I also think the single genre is a mistake, but let's trust the owners who have done many changes after our multiple demands for 16 years. If they claim they can't do this with endangering the whole thing , it's probably because it is the case.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 06:22
Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I have always said that genre should be assigned to album, not to artist

Agree. So many albums shouldn't even be associated with PA but because of the artist they are.

Another reason why the "top 100" should be about "artists" and not albums ... or we could have both listings, and they would be different from each other, but to consider a band this or that on the basis of an album is ... silly ... so many of those bands went on to do just hits and songs, and no more "concepts" or anything else worthy of note.

But with all the versatility and variety these days, assigning an album its "style" ... will probably mislead folks a lot more than otherwise. You go buy a 2nd album by that band, and you get totally disappointed and dump it. This was the case many years ago with Queen ... and then something happened, and one crazy, silly song, sort of making fun of 10CC ... got huge ... and it all changed! But the fans of that piece, more than likely don't even have the first album, is my guess!

Well, nowadays you have the Internet, so you don't have to buy it before you heard it which was the case 40 years ago ... which makes things really different. A lot of time, I can't help it, I really doubt that a fan has heard other things at all, based on the comments.


Edited by moshkito - January 12 2020 at 06:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 20:30
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I have always said that genre should be assigned to album, not to artist
I couldn't agree more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 21:08
I'm fine with the way it is.  As we have learned in the sub genre teams, the most important thing is that an artist be on PA if they generally fit.  What sub genre they go into is less important.   But we try to put them in the sub genre that makes the most sense overall.  I can pretty much surmise that, if we went to sub genres by album, we would still want to classify the band overall, and many people would want to start breaking down the sub genres by song, complaining that 3 of the songs are crossover and 5 are heavy prog so why is the album considered crossover, until someone else points out that, in running time, the heavy prog songs win out, and then someone else points out that half of two of the heavy prog songs is very symphonic, then tipping the scales in favor of crossover again. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2020 at 23:31
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

I'm fine with the way it is.  As we have learned in the sub genre teams, the most important thing is that an artist be on PA if they generally fit.  What sub genre they go into is less important.   But we try to put them in the sub genre that makes the most sense overall.  I can pretty much surmise that, if we went to sub genres by album, we would still want to classify the band overall, and many people would want to start breaking down the sub genres by song, complaining that 3 of the songs are crossover and 5 are heavy prog so why is the album considered crossover, until someone else points out that, in running time, the heavy prog songs win out, and then someone else points out that half of two of the heavy prog songs is very symphonic, then tipping the scales in favor of crossover again. Wink
 
Well said! I totally agree.  I like things just the way they are. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2020 at 08:01
So how would you label "split personality" albums like A Wizard A True Star where each side would belong to a different sub-genre? Song by song labelling? Preposterous!!! 

I like little inconsistencies anyway so I'm okay with the way things are!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2020 at 08:02
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Am I the only one here who thinks the current system of assigning one genre to one artist is perfect as it stands now?

Nope. I'm with you!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2020 at 22:31
If the notion of assigning genre to album - not artist - would that mean regarding not necessarily prog genres per album in a different light? That is if an album is not prog it is regarded as "lesser" and rated down accordingly. Or is that album to be rated on it's own merits rather than prog looking down it's nose at something non prog?

As for assigning genre per album - a good and right idea in principle but not a practical one, not here and not now. There are already ... discussions over sub genres per artists, the concomitant reactions per album per artist would probably sink the site in the weight of such worthy debate.

On the bright side it would stimulate poll content tenfold...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twseel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2020 at 04:28
I've long given up the idea that PA could realistically go genre tagging per album, which would then have to happen by user votes to be at all sustainable. I like Sean Trane's idea of having multiple genres on one artist though, or perhaps we could make some 'non-prog' label that moderators could apply (by user's request maybe) on albums like Kind of Blue to keep them out of the main charts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiz_d_kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2020 at 08:28
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

...3 of the songs are crossover and 5 are heavy prog


Which is why "tagging" makes sense. If the album is tagged as both crossover and heavy prog, then fans of both genres can find it. If it's just listed as heavy prog, then the crossover gang will probably skip over it and miss 3 enjoyable, songs.

Bandcamp uses tagging (by album), and it works well for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2020 at 08:50
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Am I the only one here who thinks the current system of assigning one genre to one artist is perfect as it stands now?


Probably. Just like you're the only one who thinks Shocking Blue is progressive LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2020 at 10:48
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Am I the only one here who thinks the current system of assigning one genre to one artist is perfect as it stands now?


Probably. Just like you're the only one who thinks Shocking Blue is progressive LOL
Shocking Blue are more psychedelic than progressive, which is why I submitted them for the Proto-Prog section. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2020 at 10:49
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Am I the only one here who thinks the current system of assigning one genre to one artist is perfect as it stands now?

Nope. I'm with you!!!
Thanks! I'm all for maintaining the Status Quo, even though they're not on Prog Archives. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2020 at 11:20
I think that would be a good idea. The Echolyn thread reminds me that they should be eclectic prog or even crossover and not symphonic. Only their very early albums could really be considered symphonic(and maybe mei). Maybe in the case of Echolyn at least they are going by how a band first establishes themselves(not sure). If we got rid of the general labels though it would be more difficult to find individual bands so there is both good and bad to doing away with the general label. 

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 15 2020 at 11:21
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