Experiences kicking nicotine addictions |
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
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Logic is not what is needed to quit tobacco. Someone saying they could quit easily but they don't is ridiculous. Quitting smoking is very much about willpower.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20483 |
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I've never heard anyone say that they could quit smoking easily, they only say it about liquor.
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Cosmiclawnmower
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 09 2010 Location: West Country,UK Status: Offline Points: 3034 |
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A sobering story Dave.. I think we're of a comparable age (mid 50's) and I could tell a few very similar stories from my life. I stopped smoking tobacco in my mid 20's when my daughter was born.. I actually hated it, it made me sick and dizzy and have cold sweats and to be totally frank, got into smoking roll-ups from smoking joints! Ive meandered in and out of a bit of dope smoking over the years then went on to just occasionally enjoying it baked into something.. With drink, ive always enjoyed the odd glass or two (and make my own wine, have done for years) but just get woozy and nauseous long before I get drunk.. ive been lucky I guess in that ive always been able to manage these 'pleasures' in my life and never let them get the better of me.. But I do admire your pipes!! I think they look really cool and the look and smell of pipe tobacco remind me of my paternal grandfather and being a small boy so associated with nice memories
Edited by Cosmiclawnmower - February 14 2020 at 17:27 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Timothy Leary
Logic is exactly what you need to quit smoking. Willpower is not what you need, if you're not convinced you should stop, the willpower is neither here nor there. Also nicotine is NOT addictive, it is habituating. There is a difference.
With most addicts, there's a "moment of clarity". Logic tells you it's damaging you and you should stop. Willpower AND logic keep you stopped. Edited by Davesax1965 - February 15 2020 at 04:05 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Hi Cosmiclawnmower - thanks. Yes, we're both in our fifties, and of course, this is what happens. That was just one story, there are so many we could come up with. I've walked into the pub, asked where one of my best mates was and been told he was dead, heroin, no one knew he was using, just started, miscalculated the dose, found by his mum, funeral was yesterday. Did no one tell you ? Literally dozens of stories like that. As I've got older, I've realised you have to start taking care of yourself. At some point, the party has to end and here comes the pipe and slippers. (No slippers as yet. ;-) ) One thing I absolutely hate, however, is that most addicts - of whatever substance - are pictured by society as weak or degenerate or all thieves or "lower members of society". Not the case. What particularly galls me is that smokers are now treated as worse than lepers. Yeah, well, that'll really do a lot of good. Worryingly, anti vaping sentiment is now coming along, so it seems that the intolerant will stop people vaping and going back to tobacco. Tobacco can much more easily kill you than vaping. Vaping is nowhere near the health risk of cigarettes. And these are your sons, daughters, parents, relatives and friends who are getting forced back into entrenched habits, of course. I also find that non smokers tend to usually talk sh*te about why people smoke, what's addictive, what's not, how to quit and how morally inferior smokers are. It's usually a sign of a deeper intolerance on all levels.
Anyway. That's my $0.02. Based on 42 years of smoking (yep, started very early). Good luck to anyone who wants to give up any form of addiction. It can be done. It can be easy or hard, but it can be done unless you're one of the very unlucky ones with a personality or habits which preclude you doing it. End of the day, a cigarette is - real world - a paper tube containing burning plants, the smoke of which you inhale. That's all it is, if you make it more than that, you're inflating the problem. You can do anything you set your mind to, at the end of the day. Decide and do. No cigarettes, three days for your body to adjust. You're then clear of nicotine. Edited by Davesax1965 - February 15 2020 at 04:21 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Here's a good argument for stopping smoking. Money.
Average UK cigarette price, £10.80 per pack, ie £324 per 30 day month. Gretsch Electromatic Streamliner, £341. Two Filtertrons, nice. Buy the Gretsch, then you can't smoke for just over a month. ;-) At the end of it, problem solved, you've probably broken the habit. If not, buy a Tokai Love Rock. Nice Violin burst. If not, get some Creamery humbuckers to replace the stock Tokai ones. Etc etc etc. ;-) Edited by Davesax1965 - February 15 2020 at 04:29 |
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
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After 50 years of smoking I quit and now some guy who still smokes wants to tell me what is needed to stop smoking.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Think about it.
Without the logic and clear thought of "I'm not smoking any more, it's bad for my health and wallet" you never get the chance to use "willpower". Willpower comes later. When you've used the logic of "I'm not smoking any more, I've given up, it's bad for me". It's called "a moment of clarity", well known condition with addicts. What also helps is to see cigarettes as just objects, rather than things of massive importance and "lifestyle". Edited by Davesax1965 - February 16 2020 at 03:03 |
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
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Okay, next time I need to quit I will use logic
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20483 |
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Having a list of reasons for not smoking must surely help. The health effects, the money spent which is considerable, the feeling that something has control over, etc. A combination of logic and willpower seems the best bet when quitting.
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dougmcauliffe
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 23 2019 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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Thank you for the extensive reply and encouragement dave! I'm sorry to hear about your struggles but it sound's like you've really worked hard to better yourself and it seems its payed off.
I'm just under a month off of it now (4 days to go). While I still get minor cravings here and there, it's become very tolerable. To best describe my experience, quitting a drug can be compared to losing a loved one. You eventually learn to live your life without them/it, but you'll always have that thought in the back of your mind and it wont ever really be the same. Or at least I haven't reached that point yet. For me I couldn't really trick my brain to do anything, I just had to push myself. Gonna go off on a bit of a tangent. I'm a young guy (18)but I've had some other struggles in my life that taught me the discipline needed for something like this. I've been overweight and I've been anorexic and I pushed myself extremely hard physically and mentally to dig myself out of those ruts. I think my strongest quality is that I trust myself to make the best decision for myself, even if it seems extremely spontaneous or ridiculous. I joined the track team as an out of shape overweight 8th grader and went from the slowest on the team and butt of all the jokes to running a 4:53 mile (1600m) in 2 years. I quit track when I was at my best ever because my heart wasn't in it anymore and I could no longer force myself to keep up a dead passion. When I quit I lost all my friends and connections. At this point I was 120 pounds (anorexic with a bad eating disorder and body dysmorphia) and I started going to the gym daily. My own parents were even vehemently against this, I remember my dad once saying "I would have never got you that gym membership if I knew you would quit track." I didn't care, I was lonely but I had something to prove. I bulked up till I was in the best shape of my life. I even decided to rejoin the track team for my final year of high school and had my best season ever. Deciding to go cold turkey was one of those things that I just knew I had to do. I feel like this has been another important event in my life that showed me that I still got it in me to push myself and be disciplined. Of course, theres no correct way to quit a drug, as long as the result is the same the means of getting there don't matter too much. I'm indifferent on pot use, I took 2 weeks off and felt really good. However recently I've gotten back into it and i'm finding that the effects are slowburn and buildup over time. It kind of messes with your reward system, but smoking a joint while listening to some sabbath or a visit to newport hospital is admittedly a lot of fun. To follow up on the friend I mentioned. I must've been having some cranky withdrawals when I typed that, because I no longer resent him and he is my best friend and I know neither of us really want to see that end over something like this.
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The sun has left the sky...
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
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Tobacco is addictive, when you quit your body will crave it for a while IMHO.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
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I'm in broad agreement with this but I think Davesax1965 is simply pointing out there is a broad historical consensus in the medical community that some substances can more readily lead to addiction while others can be restricted to habituation: (but the lines are blurred by different personality types and there is no hard and fast agreement as to which substances belong to which category) Addiction - can produce tolerance (higher doses are required over time to produce the same effect) and physical dependency (where biochemical and physiological changes at the cellular level occur to cope with the stress of withdrawal) e.g. Morphine, heroin, opiates, and to a lesser extent codeine, alcohol, and barbiturates etc Habituation - caffeine, nicotine, bromide, cocaine, speed and
other stimulants, and certain tranquilizers and sedatives (depressants) are not normally taken in sufficient amounts to result in physiological changes at the cellular level. They typically
but not necessarily induce a strong need or craving emotionally or
psychologically without producing the physical dependence that is
associated with so-called 'hard' addiction. Having gone through the trauma of quitting smoking, I'm not even remotely prepared to be lectured by anyone who claims my symptoms were figments of my imagination that by simply exercising logic could have been prevented. Also, most smokers smoke more gradually over time before they stop, so for me, contrary to the conventional wisdom quoted above, nicotine did produce tolerance. |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Indeed. If I just point out that the NHS in the UK - the National Health Service - classifies nicotine as "mildly addictive". Yes, it requires willpower to stop smoking, the nicotine disappears in three days from your system - as Doug says, it's like a bereavement. You firstly have to want to stop smoking (logic) as it's doing you harm and then (mix of willpower and logic) you have to decide not to keep putting cigarettes in your mouth and lighting them.
The reason logic is important is that people can actually reach you and convince you if you're on a current logical bent. And they can also help you. Just saying "Use willpower" is not much help. "Think about it, do something else, spend the money on something else" is more useful. However. It's not solely about nicotine, but the tars and chemicals in tobacco which are a health risk. There is a *massive* amount of disinformation about tobacco use and vaping - the Guardian ran an excellent article on it a few days ago. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/18/the-great-vape-debate-are-e-cigarettes-saving-smokers-or-creating-new-addicts? What you read depends on who is trying to prove what point. There are very few truly neutral reviews - "smoking causes statistics". There's no doubt, of course, that cigarettes damage your health. Please don't think I advocate smoking. Too many dead friends and relatives. But follow that argument and you also ban motorcycles.
Well done to anyone who's given up. Hats off to them. Edited by Davesax1965 - February 19 2020 at 09:53 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Incidentally. Just read a funny one. Someone I vaguely know (a pensioner) on a pipe forum - pipe smoker - invites his cigarette smoking mate around for the weekend. He falls asleep.
His "mate" spots a 30 gram packet of pipe tobacco on the table, and without so much as a kiss my ar$e, proceeds to smoke the lot - a week's worth - in three hours. Since pipe tobacco is very difficult to get to light, the only way he can do this is to use rolling paper and make it into huge cigars. Pipe smoker wakes up, all tobacco gone, none until next pension cheque. So. He "accidentally" spills hot coffee on his cigarette smoking "mate" and then says perhaps you'd better go home. Alas. This is what addiction does to some folks. ;-) |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20483 |
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^ Some friend! I would have spilled my coffee on him too. And the cream!
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Well, we all had to laugh, Steve. ;-)
I've had mates like that. Short term basis, of course. ;-) |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20483 |
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When I was a youngster, I got a job at a factory that used steam for everything. There were signs all over that said "Caution: Steam Kills". Sounds like that's come around again with vaping. It seems so innocent until people start dying.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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You already did. And willpower. Well done. |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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95% safe compared to tobacco, Steve. Most vaping deaths have been caused by people vaping cannabinoid derivatives. A lot of it is being deliberately blown out of proportion. The Guardian article above is well worth a read, one of the few decent and well balanced articles I've read on it in years. But that's another post. ;-) |
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