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Starless and Bible Black: Have At It!

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SteveG View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 02 2020 at 12:00
The KC album I like a little bit more than LTiA. (But only on Mondays, Thursdays and Sundays.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2020 at 20:54
Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2020 at 21:05
It’s a mid tier king crimson album, the non improv tracks are all really solid, but the improvs just mess with the flow of the album and are a mixed bag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2020 at 21:14
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.


I think you got it backwards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2020 at 21:35
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.


I think you got it backwards

Nope. "Red" has all the tedious repetitive tracks with the big heavy stadium rock sound that pointed toward this band's creative demise, "Starless and Bible Black" had the eclectic and imperfect creativity that displayed a band willing to take creative risks, a band still very much alive.

Edited by Easy Money - February 02 2020 at 21:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2020 at 22:48
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.

I agree, especially about "Red" which has many fans on PA!  SABB really shows the band at the peak of their songwriting creativity and performance chops....how can any human beside Fripp play the guitar in "Fracture?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2020 at 22:58
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.


I think you got it backwards

Nope. "Red" has all the tedious repetitive tracks with the big heavy stadium rock sound that pointed toward this band's creative demise, "Starless and Bible Black" had the eclectic and imperfect creativity that displayed a band willing to take creative risks, a band still very much alive.


I think red has something very important that starless tends to lack: songs. They are pretty much playing math rock on the title track, fallen angel and starless are perfect prog classics and one more red nightmare is just a damn cool song. Providence is more in line with SABB but it gets there towards the end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiz_d_kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 09:46
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

It’s a mid tier king crimson album, the non improv tracks are all really solid, but the improvs just mess with the flow of the album and are a mixed bag.


Disagree. It's a TOP tier King Crimson album, tied for first place with Lark's Tongues and Red. I like all three for different reasons. And the improv parts are the best - especially the way "We'll Let You Know" evolves from random interplay of Fripp and Wetton into a something more structured. Improv is what defined that era of KC.

And the guitar work of Fripp on "Fracture" is still one of the most complicated guitar parts ever conceived and played. That stroke of genius alone puts the album on the top of my list.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argo2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 10:01
SABB is in my top 3 King Crimson albums along with LTIA & Red. The title track drags it down some but Fracture, The Night Watch, & The Great Deceiver are all among my favorite KC tracks. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 10:23
Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

It’s a mid tier king crimson album, the non improv tracks are all really solid, but the improvs just mess with the flow of the album and are a mixed bag.


Disagree. It's a TOP tier King Crimson album, tied for first place with Lark's Tongues and Red. I like all three for different reasons. And the improv parts are the best - especially the way "We'll Let You Know" evolves from random interplay of Fripp and Wetton into a something more structured. Improv is what defined that era of KC.

And the guitar work of Fripp on "Fracture" is still one of the most complicated guitar parts ever conceived and played. That stroke of genius alone puts the album on the top of my list.


In my opinion there is Just way too much downtime in the improvs and they tend to not get interesting until the final minute or two. With red, it’s really exciting start to finish, where with starless, the actual songs are all great, but everything in between disrupts the flow.

I would have loved to see a SABB with less improv and more studio tracks cause they were writing strong material.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 10:30
I think Larks, Starless & Bible & Red are kind of trilogy, not of course totally same kind of albums, but they have a lot in common. Larks & Starless & Bible are really great entities, when Red got all the other greatest tracks from these three albums, but I think Providence is the weakest improvisational track in these 3 albums. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 11:27
Great beginning and ending tunes. The rest is hit and miss for me. Overall, 3.75 stars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 14:56
I really love SABB. Sandwiched between two stone cold classics it does tend to get overlooked. But it's every bit as good as LTIA or Red...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 20:44
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

The KC album I like a little bit more than LTiA. (But only on Mondays, Thursdays and Sundays.)
I like SaBB a little bit more LTIA, but only on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays.

Seriously though, I really would have expressed it pretty much the same as you did. There are times when I’ve gone for Lark’s in polls over SaBB, but I’ve never been comfortable with those votes. LTIA is far more dramatic and cinematic than SaBB. However, a weakness that LTIA has (which I brought out in my post in the LTIA thread) is SaBB's strength. SaBB conveys the feel of mass improvisation. It does it in large part by incorporating actual live material. However it does it though, it gets across the feeling of musicians probing and exploring, and I just love it for that. That improvisational aspect is actually the wider history of King Crimson, but SaBB is the only album that really taps into it.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2020 at 02:14
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.


I think you got it backwards

Nope. "Red" has all the tedious repetitive tracks with the big heavy stadium rock sound that pointed toward this band's creative demise, "Starless and Bible Black" had the eclectic and imperfect creativity that displayed a band willing to take creative risks, a band still very much alive.

Disagree. SABB was the clue that they were running out of steam. With that true, Red is an excellent bookend to that era of King Crimson, with "Starless" being the penultimate King Crimson track for that era. SABB is a hodge podge of songs, of which thankfully the title was extrapolated into something legitimate.

With that said, SABB feels like a stop over or a rest stop in the discography. Give me what came before and what came after any day.

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.
 

I think you got it backwards
 
Nope. "Red" has all the tedious repetitive tracks with the big heavy stadium rock sound that pointed toward this band's creative demise, "Starless and Bible Black" had the eclectic and imperfect creativity that displayed a band willing to take creative risks, a band still very much alive.
 

I think red has something very important that starless tends to lack: songs. They are pretty much playing math rock on the title track, fallen angel and starless are perfect prog classics and one more red nightmare is just a damn cool song. Providence is more in line with SABB but it gets there towards the end.

Exactly.


Edited by Frenetic Zetetic - February 04 2020 at 02:15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2020 at 04:23
I much prefer Red. I only really enjoy Fracture and Night Watch from SABB.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2020 at 04:32
TBH, I only like the flipside's two long tracks.
 
I don't mind some tracks (Nightwatch, Great Deceiver), but none of the rest of the A-side would "bump a track out" and find space on either Red (Providence excepted) or Aspic (its only "bumpable" track is the short Book Of Saturdays).
 
in KC's 70's discography, SANN and Islands are the weak links (I even prefer Earthbound & USA to those two)
 
 


Edited by Sean Trane - February 04 2020 at 04:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2020 at 08:36
Earthbound?

L'équivalent de partir avec la petite grosse moche à la fermeture des bars.

Edited by Barbu - February 04 2020 at 09:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2020 at 11:12
Fine KC album....but not as immediately gratifying as LTIA or Red.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2020 at 19:41
I haven't actually heard this album, but I have heard just about all songs from live albums, and mostly they do nothing for me, except for Fracture, and even that one isn't among my very favourite Crimson songs. And since the Starless and Bible Black songs were greatly actually recorded from live concerts, I don't really find much of a reason to get the "studio" one.
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