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How big is the prog rock community

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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 12:07
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

There are ten of us. But we all use multiple IDs on Prog Archives to try and make it look a bit bigger.


Now that our secret is revealed...

Dude, can you manage Logan account for today? I'm quite busy to do moderation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Bard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 12:26
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

There are ten of us. But we all use multiple IDs on Prog Archives to try and make it look a bit bigger.
 

Man you guys have a a lot free time 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 12:32
A couple of angles that might not have been mentioned yet.

1. Prog is not a single style of music.

2. And now for my main point, prog fans do not constitue a visible music based sub-culture, like goths, punks, skinheads, rave/techno, punkabilly, metalheads etc.

So at local gigs in my town, I am easily identified, and so are other goths, punks, metalheads and so on, as we all tend to go to each others gigs.

But even when we go to the proggy AOR type gigs, we are still easily identifiable as goths, metalheads etc, but the prog, AOR, classic rock fans are invisible because they are not a sub-culture.

So it is impossible to determine IRL.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 12:44
Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:


2. And now for my main point, prog fans do not constitue a visible music based sub-culture, like goths, punks, skinheads, rave/techno, punkabilly, metalheads etc.

So at local gigs in my town, I am easily identified, and so are other goths, punks, metalheads and so on, as we all tend to go to each others gigs.

But even when we go to the proggy AOR type gigs, we are still easily identifiable as goths, metalheads etc, but the prog, AOR, classic rock fans are invisible because they are not a sub-culture.
 

Good point. What does "the prog community" actually mean?Is there such a thing? OK, one can call regular participants here a community and those who regularly meet at certain concerts, festivals etc. But somebody who just likes to listen to prog (among some other things), maybe even somebody who is reasonably knowledgeable... does that make them a community member, would they count here?

By the way, I believe the latest tour(s) by King Crimson have been seen by quite a bit more than 100,000 people (the one in Verona alone that I saw last summer had 5,000-10,000 audience I think), it wasn't cheap, and KC are still uncompromising prog (and certainly not every prog fan has seen them recently, not even remotely close to 50% of them, I'd think). If all these count, we're looking at much bigger numbers than were mentioned here up to now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 12:46
Deleted repeat post

Edited by LAM-SGC - March 18 2020 at 05:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 12:46
Most prefer the term 'slightly overweight', as opposed to 'big'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 13:05
Big enough so KC, Yes, Kansas, Tull, can play decent sized venues. Some newer prog bands can almost make a living of it. Others need day jobs to afford life.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 13:12
Basically, this:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 14:37
 
 
So, if other genres can have huge followings because of certain aspects (the way they dress, certain lifestyles, etc.) then maybe Proggers could do the same.........According to the above picture - No real teeth maybe?
 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 16:13
All of tbe prog musicians I have spoken to personally, which includes, Steve Wilson, IQ, Pallas, Peter Gabriel , Moriarty....have all been opposed to organised religion....and all the prog fans I know also come into this category....and the fans also love scifi, lord of the rings, Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams....and a lot read science at university, esp chemistry and physics....bunch of geeks in reality...😎
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 16:50
Ha ha. This is something I think about quite a bit. I suppose it depends on what you mean by community though. Are we talking just those who participate in forums, facebook groups and go to concerts and festivals? Do they have to know each other. Or are we just talking about fans in general. Anyway, here are my crazy estimates. I'm going by prog rock fans but those who are really into it and at least know about the newer bands even if they don't like all of them(BBT, TFK, etc). 

US alone @ 50,000 fans (50-60,000)
North America(including Canada, Mexico and central america) @ 120,000
Europe 150,000
Other parts of the world including non English speakers 200,000 

These are rather conservative estimates but I seriously doubt there are 100,000 or more real prog fans in the US. Dream Theater barely sells that many of their weaker albums and they have hardcore fans who aren't even real prog fans. What I have done in the past is tried to find the sales of a prog album every one has owned and figured it out that way but that's obviously not very reliable. Take an album like close to the edge which reportedly(according to the RIAA) has sold 1 million albums in the US(as of 1998). Let's say 1/10 of those who bought it are real prog fans. That gives us 100,000. However, even that number seems a bit high. So I figure slice that number in half and that would give us the real figure(50,000). Not all prog fans are buying the same album but there must be some album that all or most prog fans own. Then again maybe not. CTTE or SEBTP or ITCOTCK probably come closest though. Unfortunately it's next to impossible to find updated sales figures for these albums since not enough people care. Even if I did though it still would not give us the number of prog fans because many people who own them are not necessarily hardcore prog fans.

So if we are talking the entire planet earth my estimation is about half a million prog fans. I definitely don't think there are one million though so maybe somewhere in between half and one million. I know not everyone on here ives in the US(maybe only 20 percent do)so I figured I would mention that. I could be very accurate or I could be way off but that's what I came up with.



Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - March 17 2020 at 17:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zwordser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 17:21
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Basically, this:





Yeah, but half of those are the non-prog-fan girlfriends/wives that either got pressured, or came along just to be on a cruise.. 

BTW, CTTE, probably cancelled this year due to Coronavirus??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 17:36
Hi,

I think it is one of those things ... a silent number of people, just listen to the music and don't find the need to speak out about it.

It might also depend on the area ... PDX is horrible and almost no acts stop here ... but MAGMA sold out 2 shows and the French contingent was having a party! ... conversely RTF played Eugene, and never showed up in PDX ... and it had Chick Corea, Jean-Luc Ponty, Lenny White, Stanley Clarke and Frank Gambale ... and all you can say is ... you gotta be kidding me? And Eugene was sold out and deservedly so!

If you are in Seattle, LA and SF, I think that there is more of it, even if it is not as outspoken as we would like, but I think there is a wide respect all around.

The sad thing for me, is how the EAST can get KC and the WEST can't, which suggests that the audiences here are spread out way too much instead of the huge numbers of people concentrated in the Eastern places, which makes concerts attractive ... but a KC having issues in Seattle? I'm guessing that the facilities is more the problem than anything else ... !!! I can't speak for LA and SF, but seeing Sean Ahearn take a major bath in SF in 1999 is not only scary but also sad ... and on top of it a lot of the audience, then, was very disrespectful of other artists which is something I found ... kinda bad. 

We see some of that here when folks are discussing their favorite Jethro Tull and if it is prog or prog-related or some other kind of prog.

For me, it is stuff like that which hurts what the music is all about ... and how it is seen ... all over ... specially when we need everyone to help make the events work ... instead we kill them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 17:49
Originally posted by zwordser zwordser wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Basically, this:





Yeah, but half of those are the non-prog-fan girlfriends/wives that either got pressured, or came along just to be on a cruise.. 

BTW, CTTE, probably cancelled this year due to Coronavirus??


True, or women, and some guys, boarding that Prog boat out cruisin' for love, hoping to hook up with the eligible Prog bachelors.

Prog, exciting and new,
Come aboard, we're expecting you.
Prog, life's sweetest reward,
Let it flow, it floats back to you.
The Prog boat, soon will be making another run.
The Prog boat, promises something for everyone.
Set a course for adventure,
Your mind on a new romance.
Prog won't hurt anymore...
(not quite The Love Boat theme).

Sorry if that comes of as sexist, I know there are women who like Prog, I just don't know any women who like Prog outside of this forum. And perhaps some on the Prog Boat are grandfathers and grandmothers and some mothers and fathers acting as chaperones so their randy wards don't get into too much mischief on the Pork Boat.

And Cruise to the Edge has been at least postponed due to the virus. That looks like my idea of hell, but I'm sad for those who were looking forward to it.

Edited by Logan - March 17 2020 at 17:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 18:17
Only about 2-300 show up annually(well, probably not this year)for Cruise to the Edge. However, there are about 20,000 likes on the CTTE facebook page so we know there are at least 20,000 prog fans. Lol. I don't know if that is mostly people who have gone or just those that like the idea of getting seasick to out of tune mellotrons in the background during sound check(or maybe both). Regardless it is a bit on the expensive side and I'm sure there are a lot of prog fans(myself included)who have not gone and have no intention of going(for whatever reason).

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - March 17 2020 at 18:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2020 at 01:46
Small niche of very concentrated, dedicated fans!

That's all that matters.

I'd say 250,000 max lol.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo_II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2020 at 04:22

I think it is a lot larger than estimated here, alone the King Crimson youtube has 145.00 followers, and being a huge KC lover I am not one of those. Yes official has 134.000 followers. Tull 61.100.

Mars Volta 66.600 "the widow" have been shown 6.5 mil. times.

Tool official has has 549.000 followers - Fear In... (the track) has been shown 21.222.325 times.

It is all a matter of that you define as Prog Community.

It you are looking for the once who know the name of the drummer in 5uu's without checking we are talking about a very small number of hardcore fans including friends and family, but if you are talking about people who regularly listen to a band that is considered prog (by PA def.) it must be several million people. 



Edited by tamijo_II - March 18 2020 at 04:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo_II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2020 at 04:32
moshkito: "The sad thing for me, is how the EAST can get KC and the WEST can't" Wink 

Sad for London




Edited by tamijo_II - March 18 2020 at 04:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2020 at 04:47
I agree with you Jon.
There are many many thousands of music fans that list bands like Sigur Ros, Pink Floyd, Swans, Radiohead, TMV, Tool, Neurosis and Current 93 as some of their favourite bands...yet if you ask them about ‘prog’ they end up with a confused look on their faces. They have no idea about the genre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2020 at 05:21
Exactly Guldbamsen, because most people who listen to a wide range of rock are rock fans first, and just as in the 70s, they don't pigeonhole bands into unimportant genres.
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