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Learning To Fly: pop song or not?

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Poll Question: Learning To Fly: pop song or not?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
9 [18.75%]
13 [27.08%]
2 [4.17%]
24 [50.00%]
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Learning To Fly: pop song or not?
    Posted: May 21 2020 at 09:17
Pink Floyd's Learning To Fly: pop song or not? I don't think so. It doesn't suggest the Archies or the Bay City Rollers to me, but what do I know.

Edited by SteveG - May 21 2020 at 09:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 09:36
Why do think it is a pop song?
It's a Pink Floyd song.....it's not pop music.
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Logan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 09:37
It depends upon what pop definition/parameters one is using. I'm comfortable describing it as pop rock, and pop can just mean "any music that is popular at a given time and has popular appeal (antonym: unpopular music). Mainstream music."

It was very popular as I recall. And rock generally can be considered pop according to some pop definitions.

"All music that has had popular appeal, including rock, punk, folk music, crooner music, jazzy music, New Wave, BootyWave etc. (antonym: non-popular unappealing music such as Hairy Booty Puddle)."

"Any music which is easily accessible to the listener (antonym: music that has been safely locked away)". It's a very accessible song I would say.

I wrote a long piece on pop definitions for one of my topics to illustrate the diversity and tI quoted that from my own post: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122757*

The song would fit at PA as a sort of Crossover Prog song I think.

Funnily enough, I specifically referenced another Pink Floyd song as experimental pop in that long post taking about pop music: I would place music such as Pink Floyd's "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict" under the experimental pop label.

Edited by Logan - May 21 2020 at 09:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 09:52
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Why do think it is a pop song?
It's a Pink Floyd song.....it's not pop music.
Many dweebs in PE think so. But that's PE for ya.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 09:57
I wasn't going to vote, as to me it can be yes and no depending on one's definition, but I guess I'll join those dweebs then. It's pop in the sense that it is popular music, is accessible, and has mainstream qualities. It surely has had mass appeal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 10:25
By the way, I haven't visited PE much, but as there are, reportedly, many boring, studious and socially inept people there (i.e. dweebs), I might fit in. I'm not that studious, but the rest fits. Really, as long as they are the kinds of people who try to present arguments for their positions instead of resorting to lazy ad hominems, then I might like the place. Perhaps they may do both, thus the social ineptitude (resorting to insulting language seems socially inept to me) mixed with studiousness.

I really do wish more people would try to present their cases instead of resorting to insulting language (often that's done by people who can't or won't present compelling arguments). I don't know who these PE people are, but I don't like seeing them being referred to with derogatory language here.

We have a rule at this forum, "No Personal attacks (flaming or trolling). Keep it civil, show respect at all times for your fellow members. Disagreement, debate, even "heated" discussion is fine... However, personally directed insults, denigration, etc. will not be tolerated... This applies equally to forum posts AND private messages. "Group-directed" insults and denigration (e.g., racism, sexism, ageism, etc.) also fall under this category... Any member who engages in continuous baiting, borderline insults, or other continuously "aggressive" behaviour will be warned." This basic courtesy should also extend to people outside this site, and PE has various shared members with this site. We've had issues with people using this forum to insult PE membership before and have said that that's not acceptable. If people have an issue with them, talk to them directly or bring it up with the managers of that site instead of bringing it up here.

Edited by Logan - May 21 2020 at 11:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 10:42
Don't care. It is what it is. Calling it pop doesn't change it. Calling it non-pop doesn'r change it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 11:58
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Why do think it is a pop song?
It's a Pink Floyd song.....it's not pop music.

I'm sorry, but how does it being a Pink Floyd song immediately translate to it not being pop music? I would make the argument that after Waters left, the band now still referring to themselves as Pink Floyd but lacking the main songwriting force behind the band needed to make a record that would do something different yet similar enough so the old fans would still enjoy it and not call it a rip-off but something new enough to bring in new listeners. The result is a pop/arena rock album/mess and just because the musicians on it are prog musicians does not make it anything more than a pop rock song. Ever heard of Asia? As a matter of fact, why stop at Learning to Fly? That whole album is pop music save for maybe Sorrow. MLOR was made to be poppy, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that but I'm honestly just surprised to see more votes going to "not pop" as that just doesn't make any sense. 

 edit - not to mention Pink Floyd is consistently referred to as "pop/rock", and had been since even the Syd era, so I'm not sure why that would change when discussing their most pop record. 


Edited by Scorpius - May 21 2020 at 12:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 12:02
Voted don't know, but to me it doesn't really matter. I guess I would consider "See Emily Play" their poppiest song.


Edited by The Anders - May 21 2020 at 12:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 12:15
.

Edited by verslibre - May 21 2020 at 12:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 12:16
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I wasn't going to vote, as to me it can be yes and no depending on one's definition, but I guess I'll join those dweebs then. It's pop in the sense that it is popular music, is accessible, and has mainstream qualities. It surely has had mass appeal.
 

This.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 12:22
Originally posted by Scorpius Scorpius wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Why do think it is a pop song?
It's a Pink Floyd song.....it's not pop music.

I'm sorry, but how does it being a Pink Floyd song immediately translate to it not being pop music? I would make the argument that after Waters left, the band now still referring to themselves as Pink Floyd but lacking the main songwriting force behind the band needed to make a record that would do something different yet similar enough so the old fans would still enjoy it and not call it a rip-off but something new enough to bring in new listeners. The result is a pop/arena rock album/mess and just because the musicians on it are prog musicians does not make it anything more than a pop rock song. Ever heard of Asia? As a matter of fact, why stop at Learning to Fly? That whole album is pop music save for maybe Sorrow. MLOR was made to be poppy, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that but I'm honestly just surprised to see more votes going to "not pop" as that just doesn't make any sense. 

 edit - not to mention Pink Floyd is consistently referred to as "pop/rock", and had been since even the Syd era, so I'm not sure why that would change when discussing their most pop record. 
 

I remember a lot of Floyd fans back in the '80s didn't like AMLoR because of that, Roger's absence notwithstanding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 12:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 12:25
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Why do think it is a pop song?
It's a Pink Floyd song.....it's not pop music.

Hi,

I don't know that this is the right thing to say ... but by that time, PF was no longer PF in many ways, but the album stands up fine, and I think that the album had ideas about creating something that used to be there before, but in the end, it was an uneven, but I kinda side with Mr. Mason who suggested that it was an "obligation", and was not done because it meant something. I suppose that DG would feel different and that it was important as he got to rip the guitar in a few pieces and make it sound good, but musically, with Mr. Wright on less than half the songs, kinda made it look like it was just a setup for DG to fly ... on his own song/music.

I don't look at music as "pop" or "anything else", but in so many ways, PF was pop, since the days of DSOTM when things got taken out of context and made into singles (the cut up version of MONEY for the American AM radio!!!!!!<<<<<-----) ... so one could say that there was some pop music in PF and then the other song that was big on AM radio here (Another Brick in the Ship) ... so making that call is a bit strange for me, and I wouldn't.

I never really thought of PF as a pop band at all, but I suppose that we could say that it kinda became that ... it was no longer about the trip and the enjoyment of that trip ... it was now just a bunch of songs ... that seemed like they created a story ... but that novel was horribly written, had holes everywhere, and it was so broken up, that making sense of it, is a bit ridiculous and an insult to all the Literature classes all over the world ... and while all 4 PF members were better/higher educated folks doing music (most Canterbury folks were as well!), in the end, they did not improve and ... two of them look back and call what made them famous ... crap and trash! 

Why should I think otherwise, if they don't? 

At least I still love and respect the music ... but I gave up on the the two stooges and their idiocy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mormegil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 13:25
Don't care . . I dig it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote hellogoodbye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 20:23
Pop in prog is a blessing, not a curse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enchant X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 20:26
I love the song, Floyd for me doesn't have to be progressive for me to love what they do. Tongue
So I voted don't care ... meaning I don't care what it is I love it anyway.  Wink


Edited by Enchant X - May 21 2020 at 20:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 20:40
Originally posted by Scorpius Scorpius wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Why do think it is a pop song?
It's a Pink Floyd song.....it's not pop music.

I'm sorry, but how does it being a Pink Floyd song immediately translate to it not being pop music? I would make the argument that after Waters left, the band now still referring to themselves as Pink Floyd but lacking the main songwriting force behind the band needed to make a record that would do something different yet similar enough so the old fans would still enjoy it and not call it a rip-off but something new enough to bring in new listeners. The result is a pop/arena rock album/mess and just because the musicians on it are prog musicians does not make it anything more than a pop rock song. Ever heard of Asia? As a matter of fact, why stop at Learning to Fly? That whole album is pop music save for maybe Sorrow. MLOR was made to be poppy, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that but I'm honestly just surprised to see more votes going to "not pop" as that just doesn't make any sense. 

 edit - not to mention Pink Floyd is consistently referred to as "pop/rock", and had been since even the Syd era, so I'm not sure why that would change when discussing their most pop record. 

...So what makes a pop song then?? And why is Sorrow not a pop song
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 20:45
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Don't care. It is what it is. Calling it pop doesn't change it. Calling it non-pop doesn'r change it.
That's where I was going....It's a Pink Floyd song, it's not a pop song.

But IMO the song nor album is pop music in the vein like we think of say The Cars, INXS, U2 or Celine Dion......the OP did NOT say Pop Rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 23:25
It’s Pink Floyd music. Pink Floyd (O.K. - Gilmour) being creative AND accessible deep into the 80’s. It may be classed as ‘Classic Rock’, but I wouldn’t call it ‘Pop’.
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