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Bands that could have been successful, but weren't

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FatherChristmas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 11:40
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Porcupine Tree are pretty well known even outside of prog circles. I would say most metal fans know about them and many are into them. In fact many consider them metal. I was looking up one of their earlier more rare albums on ebay recently and some of the sellers had it as "metal" under genre. 

Anyway, it depends on what we mean by successful. Some of the bands mentioned in this thread have been successful. Sometimes it amazes me that Yes became as big as they did considering what they were doing musically. It's not all about getting your song on the radio. Porcupine Tree weren't played much on the radio(I actually only heard them played on the radio once and that was sort of in the middle of their career just after IA)and neither were the Mars Volta.  Only a few prog bands get to rise above the others. It's the same in most genres. These days Big Big Train seem to be one of them but there's a few others(mostly ones with a metally sound).
True, I should have said more clearly - commercially, PT were not incredibly successful. They certainly were in that they are quite famous and have a fairly large fanbase.

Well, they never quite became a household name like Radiohead, Coldplay or Muse if that's what you mean. But yeah I think you get what I meant and I agree. However, I would say they became nearly as big(maybe as big) as Dream Theater at one point. DT has the advantage of still being around but that's not always a good thing since it depends on the quality of the output and DT it seems hit their peak a long time ago.

I think what puts DT well over the edge is that they were way bigger worldwide than PT. Being metal for longer (or at all, depending on who you ask) certainly helped.

Maybe but PT are still way more well known than 99 percent of modern prog bands. There's maybe a few that are more well known but most if not all of them have other elements that make them fringe bands(ie Coheed and Cambria and Muse). Also, as well known as DT are they still aren't played on the radio and still aren't as well known as Tool. So there's almost always going to be a bigger dog. Unless you're Pink Floyd. :P
I'd heard Dream Theatre and Porcupine Tree before coming to this site. I'd never even heard of Tool before I came here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 12:01
Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

I'd heard Dream Theatre and Porcupine Tree before coming to this site. I'd never even heard of Tool before I came here.

Really? Tool were huge in the 90s, had videos on MTV.
Dream TheatER had a minor hit with Pull Me Under, seen it when it came out.

I've heard of Porcupine Tree in the early 2000s. Funny thing I heard them first in a bar, the only time I asked the bartender who was playing. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 12:15
Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

I'd heard Dream Theatre and Porcupine Tree before coming to this site. I'd never even heard of Tool before I came here.
Same here. Smile
 
I first heard of Dream Theater when a friend showed me their Images & Words album which his daughter had won in a radio phone-in competition.
 
I first heard of Porcupine Tree when I borrowed their Lightbulb Sun album from the library.
 
I can't remember when or where I first heard of Mostly Autumn, although it was mostly on YouTube where I listened to them, until I bought their 3-CD Pass the Clock compilation. Smile


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - September 20 2020 at 12:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 13:36
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

I'd heard Dream Theatre and Porcupine Tree before coming to this site. I'd never even heard of Tool before I came here.
Same here. Smile
 
I first heard of Dream Theater when a friend showed me their Images & Words album which his daughter had won in a radio phone-in competition.
 
I first heard of Porcupine Tree when I borrowed their Lightbulb Sun album from the library.
 
I can't remember when or where I first heard of Mostly Autumn, although it was mostly on YouTube where I listened to them, until I bought their 3-CD Pass the Clock compilation. Smile

I am not sure where I first heard of Dream Theater but it may have been from the now defunct progression magazine. I remember seeing their cds in the stores around 93-95 and may have even heard a track or two on the radio but I don't remember what it was. I also heard of King's X(who never became very big)around the same time or maybe a little earlier. I first heard of Tool around that time as well(one of my friend's friends liked them and I remember the song with the lyrics "you like cheat, beg and steal" or something like that). Opeth I didn't first hear of until around 2000 or 2001 or so maybe but they were starting to get pretty big even at that point. I imagine some people might have got them mixed up with another metal band(non prog metal)called Otep. As for Porcupine Tree the very first time I heard of them was in a prog mail order catalog(the laser's edge)back around 91/92. I didn't think much of it at the time. That was also the same time I first heard of Ozric Tentacles(also featured in the catalog). OT never really got very big(or at least not as big as PT)but they did seem to get noticed a lot sooner than PT and for a while were probably more well known(then eventually as known). That all changed when PT were signed to lava records in 20001 or so and put out In Absentia. I even remember hearing "blackest eyes" on the radio once. That album didn't actually chart(at least in the US)but it start the trajectory for PT to be bigger and the album eventually became a classic and is now considered to be their best among many prog and PT fans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote POTA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 16:37
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

It was for Dream Theater. Anyway, that particular album is from the late 90's. 
That's because the 90s were a great time for progressive metal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 23:55
Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Sorry, but got to revive this thread just to say...
Porcupine Tree!!!

This is an insult to better bands with a weaker marketing team.
This does not change my opinion. I know (as you also most likely know) countless pop bands/artists that were successful and never wrote a single song themselves (relying on other songwriters). I think some PT could have been a lot more successful - In Absentia, for instance, didn't even chart in the UK, and that's the one that sold more than triple of their past albums (not put together). It is, however, ultimately just my opinion. That's all I will say.

Yo my man I had a sh*t week and it reflected in my posting attitude here the last couple of days. I apologize to you and the community if I've come across as overly cynical. All is well. I get brash when I get antsy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2020 at 00:22
I think Focus could fit this category - they had some very nice singles ("Hocus Pocus" was huge in Chicago), and lovely music on every LP I've ever heard.  

Maybe they didn't tour enough?  I saw them on a bill in Chicago = Hookfoot (Caleb Quaye's band), Focus and headliner Foghat.  It was an amazing show of young, energetic rockers just getting underway!  All three bands were called for 3 encores, so they had to repeat some of the material, which was excellent!!  March 24, 1973.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2020 at 10:23
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Sorry, but got to revive this thread just to say...
Porcupine Tree!!!

This is an insult to better bands with a weaker marketing team.
This does not change my opinion. I know (as you also most likely know) countless pop bands/artists that were successful and never wrote a single song themselves (relying on other songwriters). I think some PT could have been a lot more successful - In Absentia, for instance, didn't even chart in the UK, and that's the one that sold more than triple of their past albums (not put together). It is, however, ultimately just my opinion. That's all I will say.

Yo my man I had a sh*t week and it reflected in my posting attitude here the last couple of days. I apologize to you and the community if I've come across as overly cynical. All is well. I get brash when I get antsy.
That's fine! It is true Porcupine Tree either had a very good marketing team or were just advertised a lot, but I think they could have been more commercially successful - I don't think I've yet met someone who didn't like them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earl of Mar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2020 at 08:44
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

A Alan says it does depend how you define 'successful' but if we're talking bands that deserved to be HUGE commercially, then three spring to mind.

Renaissance


YUP.


Renaissance most definately. One of the best bands of the 70s progressive scene full stop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2020 at 15:38
Originally posted by POTA POTA wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

It was for Dream Theater. Anyway, that particular album is from the late 90's. 

That's because the 90s were a great time for progressive metal

And the 00s.
After the golden age (sort of) of the late 90s/early 00s prog metal's had a bit of a low point, but hopefully it's coming back - bands like Haken and Caligula's Horse are minorly successful, and Opeth is still going.
A prog metal band from modern times that I think could be successful perhaps in a more prog friendly time, that I mention far too much, probably because I couldn't believe they weren't that successful when I first heard them; is Pyramid Theorem. They're clearly very influenced by several good bands and good things-to-be-influenced-by, but have an original sound all the same.
Other bands/artists I personally think should have been more successful are Tesseract and Martin Grech, though they were both pretty successful anyway when compared to most prog metal. Even very successful. But the more the better!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 13:46
Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Originally posted by POTA POTA wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

It was for Dream Theater. Anyway, that particular album is from the late 90's. 

That's because the 90s were a great time for progressive metal

And the 00s.
After the golden age (sort of) of the late 90s/early 00s prog metal's had a bit of a low point, but hopefully it's coming back - bands like Haken and Caligula's Horse are minorly successful, and Opeth is still going.
A prog metal band from modern times that I think could be successful perhaps in a more prog friendly time, that I mention far too much, probably because I couldn't believe they weren't that successful when I first heard them; is Pyramid Theorem. They're clearly very influenced by several good bands and good things-to-be-influenced-by, but have an original sound all the same.
Other bands/artists I personally think should have been more successful are Tesseract and Martin Grech, though they were both pretty successful anyway when compared to most prog metal. Even very successful. But the more the better!

As I said in another thread the golden age for prog metal (imo) was roughly 92-2005. So that takes us from "images and words" to "ghost reveries." So I basically agree with you for the most part. Most of the current bands seem to be going further away from traditional prog and prog metal. For the more extreme stuff you can go later but that time period I just mentioned mostly applies to regular prog metal(ie traditional prog metal). I'm no expert though and this is just how I see it.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 24 2020 at 13:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote creamkatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2020 at 10:57
I gotta go with Cardiacs, man. Aside from "Is This The Life" being considered somewhat of a minor hit, they never reached the state of recognition that they truly deserved. RIP Tim Smith 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax9yT3t1jSI&t=291s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2020 at 11:09
Originally posted by creamkatz creamkatz wrote:

I gotta go with Cardiacs, man. Aside from "Is This The Life" being considered somewhat of a minor hit, they never reached the state of recognition that they truly deserved. RIP Tim Smith 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax9yT3t1jSI&t=291s
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That stuff you posted could have been successful, I reckon, at a particular time, though it's very alternative. When were they about?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paulo V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2020 at 11:38
Gentle Giant
 Renaissance 
 Caravan
 Arena
 Hatfield and The North
 Family
 National Health (Oddly H%TN) almost repeated itself
 Here´s a small example... but possibly one of the reasons by lack of charting or poor sales (bad promoters and labels didn´t a proper work) some were very short-lived bands, but the Music...Fabulous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote creamkatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2020 at 11:39
Thanks for the welcome, dude Smile
They founded in the late 70s and released albums from then and into the 90s
Members had started leaving around the 90s, and then Tim Smith suffered cardiac arrest and it pretty much ended there, in 2008
I would characterize them as a 90s band, I suppose, as that's when they started gaining a little more recognition and gathered a decent following
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paulo V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2020 at 02:12
What an absolute Axeman is Bill Nelson!!Be Bop Deluxe is brilliant, Nelson is way underrated!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2020 at 02:22
Originally posted by creamkatz creamkatz wrote:

I gotta go with Cardiacs, man. Aside from "Is This The Life" being considered somewhat of a minor hit, they never reached the state of recognition that they truly deserved. RIP Tim Smith 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax9yT3t1jSI&t=291s
I haven't listened too much to Cardiacs and I understand that prog fans and probably other people alike are very divided on the band. For those that really get into them, they can become one of their favorite bands, but the threshold to even say that you like their music seems high. Which isn't too difficult to understand if you listen to their music. It is very complex and shifts a lot in intensity. The number of ratings on their albums on PA says something about how accessible they were. Even the highest ranked albums doesn't have a lof of ratings.

Now, that's perhaps not really relevant for this topic. When talking about success one can of course interpret that in many ways, but I don't really see a path where Cardiacs gain a lot of commercial or public success. You could say that they are successful within the group of people that has taken a liking to their music, but that doesn't make them "popular" in my opinion, as OP writes.

Maybe if they'd emerged 10 years earlier when punk arrived. They got out some albums in the 80's, but not a lot until the end of the decade. The 80's is when punk and other genres diversified and a lot of new acts were formed. Pop, rock, metal, disco, a lof of stuff happened in the 80's. Cardiacs is perhaps not punk, but to the person in the street, I'd guess that is the direction many would throw them. They are also not what you could call easy listening, so when even hardcore prog fans need a lot of reptition to "get it", I don't see how they could become commercially successful or get much attention in mainstream media.

I can understand how people that love Cardiacs think they deserved more success, but there's a difference between "should" and "could". "Could" to me means they had the material and potential to be successful, within the era they operated, which I struggle to see for Cardiacs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paulo V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2020 at 02:56
I agree with you, they COULD, i think i still have a couple of cassettes from them (early Cardiacs or Cardiac Arrest) they reminded me early Split Enz blended with Gruppo Sportivo, Gentle Giant and Wire, sounds odd to say it..They were on the verge of success in a brief period with the EP- Big Ship, their  album- A Little Man and A House and The Whole World Window, but it has always that sensation of almost there...in terms of popularity, but the talent and musicianship were brilliant.
Well they "invente" Pronk right?
 RIP Tim Smith
A brilliant Band , no doubt about it!

P.S - The double album "Sing To God" is a hidden gem!


Edited by Paulo V - September 26 2020 at 03:19
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