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Why, again, is Stereolab not included in PA?

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Logan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why, again, is Stereolab not included in PA?
    Posted: August 12 2020 at 11:00
Determining the best category to suggest to is a very important step. It might not matter to you, but it matters when people suggest something (not that you've suggested it, you've just tried to understand why it wasn't included and if it was ever seriously looked at). If the process is not followed then there's less chance that a band will be evaluated, and the PR process is an involved one. Good arguments, thoroughness and protocols are important.

Just in case I wasn't completely clear, I'm not suggesting that someone "should" push Stereolab, but if a "convincing dossier" is provided, that matters. The reason why Prog Related has had stringent guidelines for entry and proposals has been to limit its size (there is a huge amount of music that has a Prog relation not in PA, and PR would take over if we were really open to all -- didn't have our guidelines for submission). There are things in PA that wouldn't meet later guidelines and there are controversial additions (One shouldn't expect much consistency methinks considering this site's history). The site is not consistent as rules/ guidelines have changed over time, teams have changed, different teams, things were done differently in the early PA days.... With Talking Heads there is a prog personnel relation: Adrian Belew and Brian Eno. Queen was an early addition and it used to be in Art Rock. I don't know when or why Slint was added (sort of proto post rock?). I'm not that familiar with Slint or the history of addition.

As for the Post Rock Definition, it's not good and is based on a not good wikipedia page article (better to look at as many primary sources as possible and use that as one's base). Not all Post-Rock is the kind of Post-Rock that one would expect in PA, and while I am not a post-rock expert, I have little problem with saying "Originally used to describe the music of such bands as Stereolab, Disco Inferno, Seefeel, Bark Psychosis and Pram, it spread out to be frequently used for all sorts of jazz- and Krautrock-influenced, instrumental, electronica-added music made after 1994. Bands from the early 1990s such as Slint, or earlier, such as Talk Talk were influential on this genre." Originally meaning that is how it wasbut then Stereolab gets mentioned again in the definition.

Now I can read that easily by not saying that the article (based on a wiki page) which talks about the history of the post-rock term and mentions Stereolab twice is saying that Stereolab fits PA's Prog Post-Rock category, but it doesn't go into what the Post-Rock category means for Prog Archives and so it's not very helpful when one is using that definition as a guide to suggest bands to Post-Rock.

Whatever relation Stereolab has traditionally had to post-rock, I would not hear it as a PA Post-Rock category band, and despite the obvious Krautrock influence, musically it would fit Crossover best of our Prog categories, and related best for the music overall, I think.

While Stereolab has a musical prog relation, I am not aware of it fitting enough of the Prog Related criteria (see the Prog Related page), so I wont propose it. I wouldn't propose it unless I had a really strong case, and more-so because I'm also one of the ones that would vote on it in Prog Related (I have my biases). Dean used to say something like, In prog Related we don't listen to the music, we judge the validity of the arguments and gauge the support (probably badly paraphrased). The PR team has worked rather differently while I've been on it and we have done more leg-work than has been suggested. Good arguments (showing as many prog relations as possible), and well-aimed samples can go a long way. Each act is supposed to be evaluated on its own merits, but of course comparing it to similar ones that are in PA, as well as personnel relations with other bands help. And if Stereolab was included then some people would also expect Pram, and others of a similar ilk.

By the way, Dots and Loops is one of my very favourite albums.


Edited by Logan - August 12 2020 at 11:03
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision" (Bertrand Russell).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2020 at 09:03
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I'm no expert on their music but based on what I've heard I don't think I would categorize them as post rock. I think they were just as much experimental or even krautrockish than they were post rock(if not more so).

Either that (Post Rock) or remove their name from the ProgArchives definition of "Post Rock." It seems rather ludicrous to me that they are the first name used to begin defining "Post Rock/Math Rock" and yet not included as a Post Rock/Math Rock band on the site.

Greg: I get your push for "someone to submit them" with a convincing dossier to back them. Crossover, Prog-Related, Post Rock/Math Rock, it doesn't matter to me. I just find it odd to be able to type in "Queen" or "Talking Heads" or "Slint" and get full page reference sites but not be able to do the same for Stereolab. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2020 at 21:24
I'm no expert on their music but based on what I've heard I don't think I would categorize them as post rock. I think they were just as much experimental or even krautrockish than they were post rock(if not more so).

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - August 11 2020 at 21:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2020 at 11:19
I don't think it has ever been voted on by admin (for Prog Related) and I don't think it's ever been formally proposed to the admin (according to the guidelines for PR submissions).

I love Stereolab -- love the loungey qualities, the Indietronica and nods to Krautrock (I still don't know the albums of the 2000s), but the only PA Prog category that I could possibly see it in is Crossover based on the 90s albums I know. It is art pop with experimental rock qualities, and is Krautrock/ Kosmsiche related (Neu and Can, a bit of Faust -- it is the motorik Neu beat with various music and has similarities to Can with Damo Suzuki). The band has an interesting retro vibe. That said, musically I'd sooner call it Prog related methinks (but just having a musical relation is often not enough).

Stereolab has been suggested for Prog Related before (a few times, but not done properly in a couple cases). Here is the only topic where it was suggested as Prog Related in Suggest New Bands (same link as in the OP but to make it easily clickable): http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111035

Of course getting into Prog Related can be a difficult process because of the way that category works. A Special Collaborator endorsing it, the various criteria it should hit on (not just sound). A really well researched, thorough and argued suggestion (to show as many relations as possible) with plenty of music links can go a long way, as can general support.

Had I been the one to suggest Stereolab, I might have asked Crossover if they would mind checking it first, then see if they want to support it for Prog Related. I could have imagined Stereolab getting into Crossover at one time at least for albums like Emperor Tomato Ketchup, Dots and Loops, Mars Audiac Quintet, Transient Random-Noise Bursts With Announcements.... Musically it as at least Prog Related to me. I've done a couple recent topics on Stereolab in the not distant past (and others that mention Stereolab) and was rather surprised that more people didn't seem into the music or respond.









Musically there is a Prog Relation, but I personally don't care if it is added to PA (love it just the same). If someone presents a strong case according to the Prog Related criteria (on the subgenre page) and follows the correct procedure, then it will be formally considered. A personnel relation to Prog helps, and while Stereolab was clearly influenced by Krautrock, showing an influence on Prog bands by Stereolab could help. I think one could relate Stereolab to various music in PA, including a modern one like Radiohead.

See http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73146&PID=3942761#3942761

And http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122381

Having a discussion in the General Music Discussion forum first is not a bad idea (I moved it here from the Prog Archives lounge because of the forum guidelines, not because of importance: CLICK

I've got a real interest in "modern" (90s up) Krautrock inspired music and Neo-Psychedelia (including ones on the art pop/ experimental pop/ avant pop side) and got into that in my topic about Pop and poppy music. I like loungey indietronica. Krautrock inspired ones like Stereolab, Pram, Electralane...

(this might well appeal to many into Stereolab).



Edited by Logan - August 11 2020 at 11:43
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision" (Bertrand Russell).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2020 at 10:18
They've never been suggested for post rock as I've just looked at rejected bands for post-rock. 

Suggest them for post-rock and let's see what happens. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2020 at 09:50
I've often wondered, searched discussion threads, etc. (like this one
 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111035) to find out why the band Stereolab is not included somewhere in the PA database. I have always found this particularly confusing and inconsistent due to the fact that the site's own definition of "Post Rock" used them as a reference point for the the whole Post Rock sub-genre! In fact, they are the very first band mentioned! 

http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=32

There are some odd experimental bands in the PA database that would seem to warrant the inclusion of such an influential band as Stereolab. (Pingvinorkestern, Bob Drake, North Sea Radio Orchestra, Queen, Talking Heads, Slint, Major Parkinson, Korvus Torabi) and there are many bands in the database who had one or two prog or prog-related albums but then chose a different direction. 

Has the band ever even been considered (and voted upon and/or rejected) by any administrative teams?

P.S. If administration does not regard this thread as deserving of general discussion, please move it to a more appropriate forum.


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