Nine inch nails |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 41268 |
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Toto are more than AOR than those bands you mentioned. What I like about them is how effortlessly they blend genres. I don't want to start any trouble, but if they were on PA under prog-related, I would not be upset at all. Journey is here on PA because of their early work, pre-Perry. It's funny how we discuss Toto and Journey on a NIN thread.
Edited by Cristi - September 24 2020 at 00:37 |
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Enchant X
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 31 2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 867 |
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I think ToTo comes up because anybody whos been to a ToTo concert knows they are very progressive. Not so much based on their studio albums more so based on their live performance.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: @ wicker man Status: Offline Points: 32637 |
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But then only those that would sound very much like Toto, are of a very similar vein, and/or were heavily influenced by Toto I'd argue. It's best to compare apples with apples methinks, such as "If X is here and Y sounds like X then it seems reasonable that Y should be here too and in the same category." Or "If X is not here, and Y is here and sounds like X, then it might seem reasonable to conclude that Y should not be here either" to fit better with how I followed on from what you wrote. I like Toto's Dune soundtrack (and it's a film that many deride but I love). And that has Eno's contribution. As for Nine Inch Nails, it was a controversial addition, and was added on April 1st, so some thought it might have been an April Fool's Day joke. I'm not that familiar with Nine Inch Nails, the only NIN album that I've heard in full is Ghosts I-IV (I like the lack of vocals and ambience of that album), but I assumed NIN was added to Crossover Prog because of the alternative rock qualities and that it had fairly mainstream appeal. If Prog Related was more open, then I could surmise that were it to be added, then it might have been added there instead. Edited by Logan - September 24 2020 at 04:52 |
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Spaciousmind
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 07 2020 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 724 |
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Well I for one am pleased you expanded the listings with Proto-Prog and Prog Related as it allows me to be more flexible in my collection to categorize where I felt a Band or an album fits without having to scratch my head on occasion when seeing where it is listed on the internet.
Just listened to Simon Dupree and then looked them up in Youtube to show here as an example: I am sure as Gentle Giant you know them well :) Perfect for Proto-Prog in my collection, instead of Pop, where I was never really exactly happy with them. Or more recent band Kula Shaker as an example Prog Related/Crossover for me. Well I could list dozens upon dozens... Thanks for broadening the scope!
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Near York UK Status: Offline Points: 7024 |
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Nail on head - hit. |
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: @ wicker man Status: Offline Points: 32637 |
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Well, we can't expect team members to evaluate Toto based on having seen the band live in concert, so which live albums would you suggest listening to if it were to be evaluated? Not saying it would be, not sure of the history of the suggestions for Toto. Sorry, I know we should get back to Nice Inch Nails, but I already expressed my not well informed ideas on why Crossover (or maybe I Nine Inch Nailed it). |
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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progtime1234567
Forum Newbie Joined: January 19 2019 Location: U.S Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I would put them in the prog related category because I know that Trent Reznor could have been influenced by progressive music and the band could have influenced progressive bands, but I wouldn't call Nine inch nails a prog band by any means.
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Droxford
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 16 2020 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 257 |
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So agree. I have some of their CDs and have seen NIN live . But personally never ever found a Prog element to their work. But then again, I was listening to Planet Rock radio recently and the DJ announced that he was going to play some Prog. Immediately thought, great - will it be Soft Machine, Gentle Giant, Yes ? Then this chap put on a Supertramp track which he said was from an album belonging to his Dad, which amused me somewhat. Later found out that apparently Supertramp are Prog after all. So seems individual listeners can find Prog in a whole range of music.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Online Points: 17492 |
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Edited by Catcher10 - September 26 2020 at 14:37 |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14103 |
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Like Logan I know Ghosts I-IV, very good album. I have heard bits and pieces from other albums and was less impressed. Is it prog? I tend to have no opinion on these discussions because labelling isn't really my cup of tea. By and large, the more difficult it is to find a category for a band, the more unique and progressive it is. "If NIN is here then so should Rammstein" - nah... Rammstein don't have anything that comes remotely close to the progressive qualities of Ghosts. (Neither has Toto, as far as I know, but then of course I've never seen them live.)
Edited by Lewian - September 26 2020 at 17:01 |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14103 |
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Not true. If it were like this, Irmin Schmidt would be here. But he isn't, probably because he has done so many different things (including some non-prog) that apparently every team thinks he belongs somewhere else. Tough luck. It's quite frankly ridiculous that he isn't listed.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Online Points: 17492 |
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NIN is industrial rock/metal, they are not prog. Rammstein is industrial metal, they are not prog either. These labels are given to them by the music industry, why do people love to re-classify music just to get them in here?? That was kinda my point.... So I am with you....If 5 people think NIN is prog Ok, so what, does not mean they are or should be included here. I have ZERO issue talking about a bands music if it is progressive or not, but then wanting them here in PA listings takes a different turn.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: @ wicker man Status: Offline Points: 32637 |
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Based on the one album I have heard in full, Ghosts 1-4, I didn't mind the addition. Didn't care for other NiN I had heard. Ghosts reminded me of Brian Eno work who is in PA. And I have read that Reznor likened it to Robert Fripp and Eno work, and Adrian Belew performed on it. Progressive in its way. I do care less and less about the Prog label even if I do talk about it and consider it. Partially that's because topics get so repetitive here and there isn't always a wide variety of ideas I find mildly entertaining to discuss, and because of some site business. It's never bothered me if music I don't think of as Prog is in the archives. With teamwork I cared that I tried to get it right, and was strict in my way, but different people have different perspectives. If it is a proper thing then the Prog umbrella is such a nebulous and amorphous thing. At least controversial additions made the site a little more lively. Edited by Logan - September 26 2020 at 20:51 |
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Online Points: 17492 |
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^ Yes lively would be a good thing around these parts.....After so many years I guess it is only natural that "new" threads are old highways we have traveled already and know them like the back of our hands.
I'll still play.
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14103 |
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Well, as I said, I'm fine with the opinion that they shouldn't be here and I'm neutral myself... however we certainly shouldn't take "labels given by the music industry" as sacred. Why should these guys always be right? They basically do things in order to sell stuff, not based on strictly musical criteria. NIN have undoubtedly done more progressive stuff than Rammstein, so whether they are here or not, it was right to consider them before and over Rammstein.
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Suggesting NIN is industrial is like suggesting Ulver is black metal. Like Ulver, NIN have never stood still, progressing with each album, and creating something different from each time, and sometimes wildly different in sound. Apart from the super-fanatic, there are probably not many fans (if any) who like the entire output. I know a lot of people who like NIN, and none of them like everything. There is so much more to the NiN catalogue than just industrial, and even within the industrial releases, there is a far greater variety than one would normally find from other artists in that genre. If I were to compare NIN to anyone, it wouldn’t be Rammstein, it would be David Bowie. And if Bowie can be on this site, so can NIN. Heck, Bowie and NIN have not only shared a stage, but they’ve shared musicians (Mike Garson and Adrian Belew to name just two). And Bad Witch (my personal favourite NIN release, by the way) sounds to me like NIN’s take on Blackstar, and a tribute to an influential inspiration.
I realise I’m in danger of walking into that old chestnut of prog vs progressive, but it’s hard not to describe NIN in any other way. NIN are prog to me, and I completely see why they have been added to the site. But, equally, I can see why many might disagree. I do wonder how much NIN some of those dissenting have actually listened to, though....
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projeKct
Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team Joined: November 03 2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
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The Fragile, by Nine Inch Nails, is an excellent double (and prog) album in my opinion.
Here is a good example:
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pingkrimfloyd58
Forum Newbie Joined: February 04 2020 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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A little album called THE FRAGILE.
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