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Is prog dying out, or coming back?

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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2020 at 11:00
I do not think progressive rock will ever experience the level of popularity it had in the early 70s. It will not be "coming back" strictly from a sales and marketing standpoint. This is particularly true because of how single songs/units are marketed and sold to the detriment of entire albums. The deck is stacked against the genre, and the general public seems to have a very limited attention span. 

I would suggest that prog bands produce videos of someone dangling string or rattling a set of keys to keep listeners' attention. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2020 at 11:09
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I do not think progressive rock will ever experience the level of popularity it had in the early 70s. It will not be "coming back" strictly from a sales and marketing standpoint. This is particularly true because of how single songs/units are marketed and sold to the detriment of entire albums. The deck is stacked against the genre, and the general public seems to have a very limited attention span. 

I would suggest that prog bands produce videos of someone dangling string or rattling a set of keys to keep listeners' attention. 
I was in one of the last brick and mortar record shops in NJ and heartened when a teenage girl was transfixed by album covers in the prog section. When she asked her bf "what is prog?" he said he "didn't know but it must be stupid music with bands with names like Spock's Beard!" He went off in a huff, but she stayed for a long while looking at the front and backs of prog CDs. A minor glimmer of hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2020 at 11:52
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I do not think progressive rock will ever experience the level of popularity it had in the early 70s. It will not be "coming back" strictly from a sales and marketing standpoint. This is particularly true because of how single songs/units are marketed and sold to the detriment of entire albums. The deck is stacked against the genre, and the general public seems to have a very limited attention span. 

I would suggest that prog bands produce videos of someone dangling string or rattling a set of keys to keep listeners' attention. 
I was in one of the last brick and mortar record shops in NJ and heartened when a teenage girl was transfixed by album covers in the prog section. When she asked her bf "what is prog?" he said he "didn't know but it must be stupid music with bands with names like Spock's Beard!" He went off in a huff, but she stayed for a long while looking at the front and backs of prog CDs. A minor glimmer of hope.

It's probably better to ask someone at the front desk. Anyway, which store was it? Vintage Vinyl or the Princeton Record Exchange? Or maybe some other place. There's actually probably more than you think there are. I can think of three or four in the county I live in alone.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 21 2020 at 11:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2020 at 12:56
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I do not think progressive rock will ever experience the level of popularity it had in the early 70s. It will not be "coming back" strictly from a sales and marketing standpoint. This is particularly true because of how single songs/units are marketed and sold to the detriment of entire albums. The deck is stacked against the genre, and the general public seems to have a very limited attention span. 

I would suggest that prog bands produce videos of someone dangling string or rattling a set of keys to keep listeners' attention. 
I was in one of the last brick and mortar record shops in NJ and heartened when a teenage girl was transfixed by album covers in the prog section. When she asked her bf "what is prog?" he said he "didn't know but it must be stupid music with bands with names like Spock's Beard!" He went off in a huff, but she stayed for a long while looking at the front and backs of prog CDs. A minor glimmer of hope.

It's probably better to ask someone at the front desk. Anyway, which store was it? Vintage Vinyl or the Princeton Record Exchange? Or maybe some other place. There's actually probably more than you think there are. I can think of three or four in the county I live in alone.
Vintage Vinyl. Haven't been there in 3-4 years. Same with Princeton Record Ex. Hope they're still open. And they guy at the front desk was a punk, so much about steering someone to prog.

Edited by SteveG - October 22 2020 at 05:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2020 at 13:30
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I do not think progressive rock will ever experience the level of popularity it had in the early 70s. It will not be "coming back" strictly from a sales and marketing standpoint. This is particularly true because of how single songs/units are marketed and sold to the detriment of entire albums. The deck is stacked against the genre, and the general public seems to have a very limited attention span. 

I would suggest that prog bands produce videos of someone dangling string or rattling a set of keys to keep listeners' attention. 
I was in one of the last brick and mortar record shops in NJ and heartened when a teenage girl was transfixed by album covers in the prog section. When she asked her bf "what is prog?" he said he "didn't know but it must be stupid music with bands with names like Spock's Beard!" He went off in a huff, but she stayed for a long while looking at the front and backs of prog CDs. A minor glimmer of hope.

It's probably better to ask someone at the front desk. Anyway, which store was it? Vintage Vinyl or the Princeton Record Exchange? Or maybe some other place. There's actually probably more than you think there are. I can think of three or four in the county I live in alone.
Vintage Vinyl. Haven't been there in 3-4 years. Same with Princeton Rrecord Ex. Hope they're still open. And they guy at the front desk was a punk, so much about steering someone to prog.

I figured it was probably VV. I've never been there but I've heard about it. A punk. Oh well. At least you know who to ask if you want a punk recommendation. Lol. I find that many record store owners and clerks are a bit snobby. Maybe not to the extent depicted in the movie High Fidelity but they often just act like they know it all and their taste is superior. They may as well work at Rolling Stone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 01:07
I feel it's cyclical/ebbs/flows.

2008-2015 seemed like a high for prog interest for me, I could be wrong.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 01:35
Prog could use an infusion of youth & energy.  The old acts are exactly that, old (I'm 65 and don't play as fast or as long as I used to).  Fripp and Levin are both 74 years old.  

We need someone like a prog Eddie Van Halen, RIP!  When Van Halen hit the scene, it caused a real buzz!!  It was a new style of guitar playing, and very high energy.  

I suggest more young women to start with.  Prog hasn't had enough in my opinion....

I taught US high school for a bit, and asked the young guys what kind of music they liked.  The young are moving away from the sound of rock guitars completely, they were primarily into rap.   We need to change that. 


Edited by cstack3 - October 22 2020 at 01:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 05:08
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Prog could use an infusion of youth & energy.  The old acts are exactly that, old (I'm 65 and don't play as fast or as long as I used to).  Fripp and Levin are both 74 years old.  

We need someone like a prog Eddie Van Halen, RIP!  When Van Halen hit the scene, it caused a real buzz!!  It was a new style of guitar playing, and very high energy.  

I suggest more young women to start with.  Prog hasn't had enough in my opinion....

I taught US high school for a bit, and asked the young guys what kind of music they liked.  The young are moving away from the sound of rock guitars completely, they were primarily into rap.   We need to change that. 
^Yes, it's all rap in the UK too. It's because it's new and original in my country - no one young wants to listen to the same old songs, albums and genres for years and years, and it's the young people buying the singles. Never thought I'd say this, but prog needs to sell out to come back. 
You're right about prog needing an "infusion of youth and energy". It'll never come back without that, nor without some originality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 05:40
The dying out is coming back...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 08:46
Hi,

I think that "progressive" or "prog" will die like Mozart ... but it will be remembered and played a lot for a long time to come and then some!Tongue

We already have over 50 years, and we still don't see that!Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 08:47
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I do not think progressive rock will ever experience the level of popularity it had in the early 70s. It will not be "coming back" strictly from a sales and marketing standpoint. This is particularly true because of how single songs/units are marketed and sold to the detriment of entire albums. The deck is stacked against the genre, and the general public seems to have a very limited attention span. 

I would suggest that prog bands produce videos of someone dangling string or rattling a set of keys to keep listeners' attention. 

Hi,

Time to call Kevin Godley?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 08:50
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I think that "progressive" or "prog" will die like Mozart ... but it will be remembered and played a lot for a long time to come and then some!Tongue
For once I agree with you. Shocked
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 09:16
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Prog could use an infusion of youth & energy.  The old acts are exactly that, old (I'm 65 and don't play as fast or as long as I used to).  Fripp and Levin are both 74 years old.  

We need someone like a prog Eddie Van Halen, RIP!  When Van Halen hit the scene, it caused a real buzz!!  It was a new style of guitar playing, and very high energy.  

I suggest more young women to start with.  Prog hasn't had enough in my opinion....

I taught US high school for a bit, and asked the young guys what kind of music they liked.  The young are moving away from the sound of rock guitars completely, they were primarily into rap.   We need to change that. 

Yeah, what I said in another thread.  As somebody who was in my teenage and adolescence years in the noughties (that is, the decade before this one), it's changed so much even since my youth. There were those of us even then who liked rap more, but rock was a big deal and especially so among (hate to stereotype) young men. It's not a bad thing for MUSIC per se because this is going hand in hand with a lot of critically acclaimed rap coming out.  Rap has moved past the more mainstream and chart-ready artists now and is hence attracting more attention from the youth.  But barely any new big rock bands have broken out in a long time (with the latest one being an LZ clone that is more likely to appeal to older fans nostalgic for rock). The funny thing is in my early twenties, the people I new who liked metal (including myself) used to bash nu-metal and metalcore all the time but I see the positive side of that music now.  It was just edgy (or not-Creed, if you will) enough that kids found it exciting and catchy enough for them to not find it forbidding. And those bands acted as gateways for many to get into rock and metal.  That's gone now.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 09:20
I think the real trick is somehow making prog appear to be hip and relevant. I say appear to be as most modern pop/rock is nothing more than that but has a cool factor that is attractive to young people..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 11:08
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I think the real trick is somehow making prog appear to be hip and relevant. I say appear to be as most modern pop/rock is nothing more than that but has a cool factor that is attractive to young people..
Yes, basically what I was getting at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 12:24
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I think the real trick is somehow making prog appear to be hip and relevant. I say appear to be as most modern pop/rock is nothing more than that but has a cool factor that is attractive to young people..

There are some bands that younger people are into but most seem to be on the metal side. Anything that's retro sounding or sounds like something their parents would listen to they would stay away from. Their loss.Unfortunately people in general can't really think for themselves but I think this is especially true  of younger people. They need some sort of validation(or green light)from others before they can listen to it. Music shouldn't be seen as some sort of fashion statement but for many people it is.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 22 2020 at 12:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 13:32
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I think the real trick is somehow making prog appear to be hip and relevant. I say appear to be as most modern pop/rock is nothing more than that but has a cool factor that is attractive to young people..

Thank you, that is quite insightful! 

What do the youth of today care about?  In the 1970s, we were focused upon the stupid Viet Nam war, and prog artists like Crimson and Yes responded to anti-war sentiments.  Environmental sensitivities were also being stirred, and Yes in particular played to those interests.

I know (as a sometimes public school teacher) that the kids are very concerned about wildlife, environmental, global warming, water etc.  They are waking up to the fact that they are going to inherit a sh*te-hole of a planet from us geezers, and they aren't thrilled about it.  They are also motivated by very strong feelings of humanity and inclusion of all races, orientations etc. 

Therefore, prog cannot just be about "elves and unicorns" LOL !  Prog musicians and composers need to focus upon the interests of our audiences, rather than what WE wish to write about.   A prog band that writes an epic environmental work would draw attention.  

Personal disclosure - I'm a leading environmental scientist with awards from the UK and US governments (thank you your majesty), and I was inspired to this path by a single lyric in TFTO, RSOG - "Let them rape the forests."  I vowed that I would never allow that.  

I told this to Jon Anderson backstage in 2004, he gave me a wonderful smile that I shall always cherish. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 14:01
Prog has always tended to attract the thoughtful and educated.  That is a great story, btw, about being persuaded by art to make a difference in the world.  Congratulations on your successes and may they help us save the forests, for we need them more than ever.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 14:05
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I think the real trick is somehow making prog appear to be hip and relevant. I say appear to be as most modern pop/rock is nothing more than that but has a cool factor that is attractive to young people..

Thank you, that is quite insightful! 

What do the youth of today care about?  In the 1970s, we were focused upon the stupid Viet Nam war, and prog artists like Crimson and Yes responded to anti-war sentiments.  Environmental sensitivities were also being stirred, and Yes in particular played to those interests.

I know (as a sometimes public school teacher) that the kids are very concerned about wildlife, environmental, global warming, water etc.  They are waking up to the fact that they are going to inherit a sh*te-hole of a planet from us geezers, and they aren't thrilled about it.  They are also motivated by very strong feelings of humanity and inclusion of all races, orientations etc. 

Therefore, prog cannot just be about "elves and unicorns" LOL !  Prog musicians and composers need to focus upon the interests of our audiences, rather than what WE wish to write about.   A prog band that writes an epic environmental work would draw attention.  

Personal disclosure - I'm a leading environmental scientist with awards from the UK and US governments (thank you your majesty), and I was inspired to this path by a single lyric in TFTO, RSOG - "Let them rape the forests."  I vowed that I would never allow that.  

I told this to Jon Anderson backstage in 2004, he gave me a wonderful smile that I shall always cherish. 

What a wonderful story Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2020 at 14:32
Prog was never hip or popular. Why change it now? Prog is for nerds, just look at Rush. After their shows did they party or hang with groupies? Rarely. They usually went back to the hotel to read a book.

I was a teenage in the 70's, most people listened to what was on the radio, as they do today. Most people like to be spoon fed and have no issue with that. As long as there is an audience, prog will survive, and last I checked it's doing well.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - October 22 2020 at 14:33
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