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Albums you think got unfairly treated upon release
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Just about any prog album anytime anywhere.

a few that were unfairly treated imo

ELP - Works Volume One

even now this album gets a caning yet there is very little wrong accept the bloated version of Fanfare For The Common Man. That was enough for many critics yet ELP had mostly moved away from the 'trashy' electronic lead sound towards something with more substance . Keith Emerson's Piano Concerto was especially beautiful and a very creative work. Lake and Palmer showed they also had plenty up their sleeves. Pirates is a tremendous piece for me. No bombast which is unusual for ELP.

Yes - Drama

ok so its the Buggles + Yes , but just get over it. Dynamic, original  and inventive and a massive return to form but the critics were still on the post punk backlash.

Pink Floyd - Animals

prog fans rightly recognise this as a masterpiece but again the critics just were not having it.

Genesis - And Then There Were Three

I have to admit I don't recall whether this was part of the punk backlash but I expect it was. Mostly , however, it's top notch and no wasted moments. Genesis could have packed it in and many expected that to happen but instead they dug out this little beauty instead. Concise and powerful , a very nice balance between pop and prog. Horribly underrated in general.





For some reason I never got around to that ELP album but I agree with the others especially ATWTT. With animals I'm not a super big fan of it but compared to DSOTM and the wall it's certainly underrated. It still sold a lot of copies over the years though.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I already had gotten the Yes Album and then Fragile, and as soon as CTTE came out I got it and loved it. No worries there ... but by that time I didn't care what "reviews" said about anything since I was already expecting many of them to be crap, specially when the famous magazine called TD "washing machine music" which, of course, meant that the idiot had not even heard the whole thing and was just trying to be funny. To this day I say that jerk was deaf and would not even know what a washing machine sounded like ... besides, FAUST might have done a washing machine, but I seriously doubted that TD would even consider the option!

I do think that there are a lot more album sales than we know ... but since so much of it is done INDEPENDENTLY, or through a bandshrimp, or other site, we never really know what sold, and most artists will not likely tell you that they sold 1700 copies of the CD, and then bandturds only gave them $1.70 for it all! 

Many record companies continue to trash the way things are, mostly because they lost a lot of revenue ... and they are not smart enough to try and go get some more ... instead spend their money on lawyers and other crap trying to stop mp3's and other details, as a way to make it sound like the Internet is broke and bands can not make money.

I think that some do better than others, but in the end, the whole thing is mostly hurting because a site like PA also shows too many negative sides about any band ... and that hurts sales badly! And that is why I say that the Admins here, have to do a better job to enforce/instill a certain amount of positive feedback on many of the bands that we love so much that we consider as "progressive" and "prog", and while the American idea that it is OK to say anything, in the end, there is a negative side to that ... and most artists might not be as secure in their work to withstand that assault.

I would hate to find anyone/someone quit because they can not sell enough ... and my thoughts and heart goes out to DaveSax (for example) because he has tried, and continues trying ... and that is a very important feeling and artistic desire and process.

My attitude is always ... I only do a review for its positive design and thoughts, and not to diminish the band's works ... I'm not a BS fan, for example, but I do have some of their albums, but as much as I like some of it, I do not feel that they are worthy of a review ... specially when there are so many out there as it is ... and I prefer to save mine for new things.
That is an interesting train of thought. I wonder how the ratings would look if we only had 3, 4 or 5 stars we could give them, with the same descriptors. The worst you could give an album was "Good, but non-essential". I have taken part in similar discussions about completely different topics, but in the same vein of allowing users/people to give something positive feedback, but not negative. Like Facebook which originally only had a thumbs up feature, whereas now there are hearts and angry faces they can use. I've also encountered it in other forums where we discussed whether users should be given the option to upvote or downvote posts, or just upvote.

No rating system will ever be perfect, especially if one is to consider both how fair it is to the artists and how helpful to the potential buyers.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Just about any prog album anytime anywhere.

a few that were unfairly treated imo

ELP - Works Volume One

even now this album gets a caning yet there is very little wrong accept the bloated version of Fanfare For The Common Man. That was enough for many critics yet ELP had mostly moved away from the 'trashy' electronic lead sound towards something with more substance . Keith Emerson's Piano Concerto was especially beautiful and a very creative work. Lake and Palmer showed they also had plenty up their sleeves. Pirates is a tremendous piece for me. No bombast which is unusual for ELP.

Yes - Drama

ok so its the Buggles + Yes , but just get over it. Dynamic, original  and inventive and a massive return to form but the critics were still on the post punk backlash.

Pink Floyd - Animals

prog fans rightly recognise this as a masterpiece but again the critics just were not having it.

Genesis - And Then There Were Three

I have to admit I don't recall whether this was part of the punk backlash but I expect it was. Mostly , however, it's top notch and no wasted moments. Genesis could have packed it in and many expected that to happen but instead they dug out this little beauty instead. Concise and powerful , a very nice balance between pop and prog. Horribly underrated in general.

Great list, especially Drama! My favorite non-Anderson Yes album. I don't hear Buggles at, I hear Yes taking their sound to the next logical step for the decade. Trevor's voice is perfect for that band!

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Originally posted by progmatic progmatic wrote:

Here in Ohio "Genesis Live" was ripped for sound quality and just generally ignored. I never heard complaints about it lacking "Supper's Ready" until a few years later. I much prefer it to "Seconds Out," and with the Genesis box later I was able to hear "Supper's Ready."
Interesting, I've always thought the sound on Genesis Live was fine.
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Originally posted by A Crimson Mellotron A Crimson Mellotron wrote:

'To the Bone', people were already dismissing it based on some news and a few singles... And it is a very solid progressive pop album, never got why it gets so much hate.
I'm guessing it got hate because it was different from most of Steven's previous work, which has been very successfull within the prog rock community. Four out of the top eleven albums the last 30 years on PA comes from him (solo or PT). It is a bit ironic since his music typically is classified as prog rock and he gets hate for being progressive. He may end up progressing outside of prog rock altogether, but he shouldn't get hate for it. I applaud anyone that expand their sound and dare venture outside of the safe comfort of their back catalogue.

The album is a good prog pop album, but if you expect a prog rock album, you'll undoubtedly be disappointed. Which I think explains a lot of the reviews.
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Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

...
No rating system will ever be perfect, especially if one is to consider both how fair it is to the artists and how helpful to the potential buyers.

Hi,

This is an idealistic thought ... it is nowhere near the truth and can't possibly be, since you can NEVER rely/depend on public this or that, because tomorrow it will be different and they will like another show in a different network ... at least according to the media (which the same networks OWN)

This leaves it all, just about, to a place like PA and others that discuss "progressive" and "prog" with a more informational and helpful detail and content.

Same thing in theater ... different nights and the audience changes ... Friday Nights is the drunk audience (so to speak), Saturday Night is the "professorial" audience counting rhymes and meter, and Sunday afternoon is the kiddies laughing at the funny costumes and situations!

This is exactly what it feels like here sometimes ... and while most folks are "adamant" about their favorites, many of them lack the objectiveness to give the music a fair shot ... "progressive" or "prog" is NOT about favorites ... it's about a bunch of groups that did something that still stands out as better than the fire sale old sox' of some old music!

We have to come to grips with our ideas and if we are going to help or not give a darn. AND this alone, would make any media look stupid and senseless, and worthless! 

I always ask ... where do you stand? If it is your favorite you are not a progressive/prog listener at all!
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Any a thing by Gentle Giant, not only upon release, btw.
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Originally posted by Woon Deadn Woon Deadn wrote:

Any a thing by Gentle Giant, not only upon release, btw.

care to back that up?
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Woon Deadn Woon Deadn wrote:

Any a thing by Gentle Giant, not only upon release, btw.

care to back that up?

I always wondered this, TBH! How was GG perceived at the time by the general music audience, let alone progressive rock fans? I'd assume even the latter had issue getting into them as much as say, Yes, Tull. KC, etc.; I could be wrong!

Someone enlighten me with this prog history; I don't see TPATG going over too well in 1974 lol.

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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Woon Deadn Woon Deadn wrote:

Any a thing by Gentle Giant, not only upon release, btw.

care to back that up?

I always wondered this, TBH! How was GG perceived at the time by the general music audience, let alone progressive rock fans? I'd assume even the latter had issue getting into them as much as say, Yes, Tull. KC, etc.; I could be wrong!

Someone enlighten me with this prog history; I don't see TPATG going over too well in 1974 lol.
My friends and I are all into Yes, Genesis and ELP but I don't remember GG ever featuring in our conversations, nor any of us having any GG albums. A friend of mine was into them in the early 80s and everyone else thought "wtf" and I didn't get into them until much later.
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In the era of politically correct overkill, Borat needs to get the chop too. Not for being PI, but for being politically not funny. We need all the good political jokes we can get nowadays.



Edited by SteveG - October 31 2020 at 07:51
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

In the era of politically correct overkill, Borat needs to get the chop too. Not for being PI, but for being politically not funny. We need all the good political jokes we can get nowadays.


Post in the wrong thread?
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^ I hope so, lets not let the thread go this way

I'll add Heritage by Opeth. While I think it's rated fairly here, many fans HATED this full transition to prog rock that previously was only one element of their classic sound. I personally really enjoy this album, though there's a couple tracks on here that I think could use a little honing in. Reading old RYM reviews people pounced on this with their emotions rather than the actual musical content, which truthfully contains some stunning and brilliant moments. It seems fans are coming around to this black sheep of the catalog.
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The first three Bill Bruford Earthworks albums were not liked because of Bill's choice to use electronic drums. I love all three. He was incorporating the technology of the time in his music. Groundbreaking and original. PA ratings..."Earthworks" (3.16), "Dig?" (2.72), "All Heaven Broke Loose" (2.94). Absurd.
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Ronnie Montrose's Open Fire. You'll never hear any of it on FM radio.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

In the era of politically correct overkill, Borat needs to get the chop too. Not for being PI, but for being politically not funny. We need all the good political jokes we can get nowadays.


Hi,

Put all these jokes on Audacity (or equivalent) and turn them BACKWARDS at the same speed ... it will be funny and very entertaining, but a shame that the real meanings still do not show! Wink  Tongue
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Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Ronnie Montrose's Open Fire. You'll never hear any of it on FM radio.

Hi,

Well ... I did ... and it was on the very special show you guys ... ohh forget it ... it's a waste of time, that people think that nothing ever gets played anywhere. Simply not true and never will be.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Ronnie Montrose's Open Fire. You'll never hear any of it on FM radio.


Hi,

Well ... I did ... and it was on the very special show you guys ... ohh forget it ... it's a waste of time, that people think that nothing ever gets played anywhere. Simply not true and never will be.
Well, I guess I should have remembered the old axiom "Never say never." Let's just say one will rarely hear Open Fire on FM.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

In the era of politically correct overkill, Borat needs to get the chop too. Not for being PI, but for being politically not funny. We need all the good political jokes we can get nowadays.


Recently caught the second Borat installment, and it was a laugh riot. Still enjoy him praising America's "war of terror" at the rodeo in the first flick the most.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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And The There Were Three and ELP's Works 2.

Very unfairly maligned. Prog fans calf love for departing guitarists influenced 'judgment'. Poor little Nemos.

The diversity of ELP2 is terrific. Jazz, folk, rock, classical. Maybe Works  1 and 2 needed reshuffling.
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