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anoopanunya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote anoopanunya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Close to the Edge inner sleeve differentiation
    Posted: December 27 2020 at 11:53
So a while ago when I bought a Fragile LP online, I was sent a CttE LP instead. I already had one so the guy just let me keep it. Both my version of CttE and the one I was sent were first edition atlantic copies from 72. However, I just noticed that the sleeves are different. The one I received online, which I’m pretty sure is the stereo version, is dark green with black lettering. The one I had previously, which doesn’t say stereo anywhere, has a lighter green sleeve color with white lettering. Same exact text, same exact font. I’ve made a post earlier about all the typos on the inner jacket of Fragile, so does anyone really know why Yes had 5 year olds producing all their records?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2020 at 13:56
First thing you need to do is check the catalogue number on the jacket. It may be a re-release.
You also have yo check the  scribe on the runout of the LP side. Different mastering houses and different printers for jackets means different looks.

Go here and do a search

https://www.discogs.com/Yes-Close-To-The-Edge/master/35006

Scroll down to see all the possible release dates etc.


Edited by JD - December 27 2020 at 14:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2020 at 14:28
Originally posted by anoopanunya anoopanunya wrote:

So a while ago when I bought a Fragile LP online, I was sent a CttE LP instead. I already had one so the guy just let me keep it. Both my version of CttE and the one I was sent were first edition atlantic copies from 72. However, I just noticed that the sleeves are different. The one I received online, which I’m pretty sure is the stereo version, is dark green with black lettering. The one I had previously, which doesn’t say stereo anywhere, has a lighter green sleeve color with white lettering. Same exact text, same exact font. I’ve made a post earlier about all the typos on the inner jacket of Fragile, so does anyone really know why Yes had 5 year olds producing all their records?

Yea you need to tell us the catalog number of each and run out groove matrix, or as JD suggests just go to Discogs and search for your copy.
My 1972 US print also has a slightly orange peel feel to the cover, the inner sleeve is green with black letters. I also have a Friday Music remaster half speed version from 2008, not a very good version, cut from digital file and has too much compression lacking dynamics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2020 at 15:17
I remember there being a matte version and a shiny version.

BTW, both of my ELP ST LP's have a different look to the cover, but they also have different Cat #'s



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2020 at 15:24
Oh...and check out Selling England by the Pound sometime, a yellow version and a more green version.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2020 at 16:25
^ Yea that happens all the time, just printing differences....My SEBTP are the same, the Nick Davis remix issue is different color. Even same year releases from UK and US are different just due to printing companies.

Now if you find the LZ I, first press/issue UK 1969 with turquoise lettering, could be worth uber money, only like 2000 were shipped before the color of lettering was changed to orange...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anoopanunya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2020 at 20:50
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

First thing you need to do is check the catalogue number on the jacket. It may be a re-release.
You also have yo check the  scribe on the runout of the LP side. Different mastering houses and different printers for jackets means different looks.

Go here and do a search

https://www.discogs.com/Yes-Close-To-The-Edge/master/35006

Scroll down to see all the possible release dates etc.




Thanks for the suggestion, I’m not too keen on figuring out all these little differences. I found the difference between the two, thanks to discogs.

The one I originally had is a “reissue” specialty pressing, still from 1972. It has the number SD 19133. The other one, which somehow I didn’t notice, is a textured sleeve from the original pressing, with the number SD 7244. Apparently both are stereo, even though only 1 of them explicitly state “Stereo”. Thanks for the help, might try to sell the textured one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 06:51
FYI, SD 19133 is a 1977 re-Issue not 1972 according to Discogs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 09:36
Originally posted by anoopanunya anoopanunya wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

First thing you need to do is check the catalogue number on the jacket. It may be a re-release.
You also have yo check the  scribe on the runout of the LP side. Different mastering houses and different printers for jackets means different looks.

Go here and do a search

https://www.discogs.com/Yes-Close-To-The-Edge/master/35006

Scroll down to see all the possible release dates etc.




Thanks for the suggestion, I’m not too keen on figuring out all these little differences. I found the difference between the two, thanks to discogs.

The one I originally had is a “reissue” specialty pressing, still from 1972. It has the number SD 19133. The other one, which somehow I didn’t notice, is a textured sleeve from the original pressing, with the number SD 7244. Apparently both are stereo, even though only 1 of them explicitly state “Stereo”. Thanks for the help, might try to sell the textured one!
I don't know of a MONO version ever being commercially available?? Occasionally some PROMO radio only versions are in mono.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 09:45
For a second I thought on was on the SHMF with this thread. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 10:03
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

For a second I thought on was on the SHMF with this thread. LOL

LOLLOL
Silly wabbit, if that was the case this thread would be like 5 pages long by now....Just like wabbits, threads over there multiply by the hour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 12:05
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Oh...and check out Selling England by the Pound sometime, a yellow version and a more green version.



I think this was the case with the difference between the IMPORT and the AMERICAN version of the album, and it has been like that for a long time in many other albums going back to Sgt Peppers and Their SAtanic Majesty's Bologna ... which also had a bonus feature as an IMPORT ... the clarity of the recording was far better, while the American version was copied from a dumpster from a Hollywood party!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now, where is your own art? An idea? www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 12:09
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

For a second I thought on was on the SHMF with this thread. LOL

LOLLOL
Silly wabbit, if that was the case this thread would be like 5 pages long by now....Just like wabbits, threads over there multiply by the hour.
Especially those fricken' Beatles' threads! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 12:09
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

...
I don't know of a MONO version ever being commercially available?? Occasionally some PROMO radio only versions are in mono.

Hi,

I can't verify this now ... but I believe there was a "single" mangled from parts of the album done for the AM radio, but I don't think it went very far past the big city as no one played it ... the album became, one of the biggest "hits" in the FM band in America and its quality made AM radio sound like crap in mono, which took away a lot of the great music and work in the "hits" ... this is perfectly clear in many "radio stations" these days that play classic hits, and the albums might be in stereo, but what comes through the signal into your stereo system (if you have a GOOD ONE!) ... is almost MONO and does not have the sound clarity and constitution that it should have ... it is one of the greatest concerns, that a lot of those bands, don't even know how their music is being screwed .... but I think it says they don't own their music!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now, where is your own art? An idea? www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 16:53
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

For a second I thought on was on the SHMF with this thread. LOL

LOLLOL
Silly wabbit, if that was the case this thread would be like 5 pages long by now....Just like wabbits, threads over there multiply by the hour.
Especially those fricken' Beatles' threads! LOL

No joke brother!! I suggested once, which is a brilliant idea, to make a section "All Things Beatles". Even on SHF there are people who are done with seeing 'another beatles thread' littering the Music Section
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 16:57
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

...
I don't know of a MONO version ever being commercially available?? Occasionally some PROMO radio only versions are in mono.

Hi,

I can't verify this now ... but I believe there was a "single" mangled from parts of the album done for the AM radio, but I don't think it went very far past the big city as no one played it ... the album became, one of the biggest "hits" in the FM band in America and its quality made AM radio sound like crap in mono, which took away a lot of the great music and work in the "hits" ... this is perfectly clear in many "radio stations" these days that play classic hits, and the albums might be in stereo, but what comes through the signal into your stereo system (if you have a GOOD ONE!) ... is almost MONO and does not have the sound clarity and constitution that it should have ... it is one of the greatest concerns, that a lot of those bands, don't even know how their music is being screwed .... but I think it says they don't own their music!

I did check Discogs, there is one entry for a MONO (LP) version which is, as I thought, a Radio/DJ Promo version and to your point quite possibly for the AM stations.
I don't buy Promo records usually, especially when for a radio station, these are usually trashed from garbage ceramic cartridges from back in the day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 21:22
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

...
I did check Discogs, there is one entry for a MONO (LP) version which is, as I thought, a Radio/DJ Promo version and to your point quite possibly for the AM stations.
I don't buy Promo records usually, especially when for a radio station, these are usually trashed from garbage ceramic cartridges from back in the day.

Hi,

It would have to be specifically for some AM band station, since the MONO record would sound flat on the FM band, and the main thing in those days, about the FM band, was the QUALITY OF THE SOUND in almost everything played ... which better allows for the explanation why DSOTM exploded ... as an example ... a couple of years later.

Nowadays, this is not "visible" in the mp3's and the average listening in the ears of most listeners who are picking it up on bad quality mp3's. Thus, the ability to even know/understand what we are talking about gets kinda lost ... and no wonder some of these people get surprised by the "remix" or the "remastering" ... because they had never developed the ability to listen to the quality of the product in the first place.

I can't even check out the FM stations in this area (Portland, Or) because the quality of their signal is "cheap" at best ... and the music does not sound as clear and good as it can, AND DID ... way back then. Take a "classic hit" and play the CD while listening carefully and then do so on the air ... the radio stuff sounds "flat" by comparison! It has to be a "cheap" signal ... and by comparison, I have recordings of Space Pirate Radio from 1974 and the stereo in those recordings is far superior! And it makes the music sound better!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now, where is your own art? An idea? www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2020 at 07:03
^ It sounds bad simply because there are too many stations taking up bandwidth. Today they operate in such a narrow space as compared to the 70's when you could turn the dial 1 full turn before finding another station. Today you turn the dial a 1/4 turn and there is another station, heck back then you could start at 87.8MHz and not find a station till you hit like 92.0MHz.
HD Radio has given us a cleaned up sound, its a very compressed signal but there is so much distortion in FM it needs a ton of compression so the highs are limited, but its clean sounding. When I listen at home its thru my HD Radio capable media device. Some of the hidden channels are good, one here in Seattle plays a lot of live tracks.

As far as remix or remaster issues as long as they are done well by a trained ear I'm good, and the gripe about Steven Wilson and what he does is not accurate. Everything he has remixed for like JTull and King Crimson has been with the blessing of Ian Anderson and Robert Fripp, it's their approved final product not Steven's. So to me if Fripp approves a remix different than what we were exposed to in early 70s fine by me, I have to think that what Fripp is approving is what he actually wanted to be released in the first place, what he intended us to hear but because of a bad engineer or record company exec calling the shots it missed what he or other artist intended originally.
What is recorded in a studio, we never hear, that only lives on the original master tapes and if you have ever heard that it sounds terrible! There is no mix, the volumes are all over the place sounds like a dog's breakfast coming out as diarrhea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2020 at 07:14
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

As far as remix or remaster issues as long as they are done well by a trained ear I'm good, and the gripe about Steven Wilson and what he does is not accurate. Everything he has remixed for like JTull and King Crimson has been with the blessing of Ian Anderson and Robert Fripp, it's their approved final product not Steven's. So to me if Fripp approves a remix different than what we were exposed to in early 70s fine by me, I have to think that what Fripp is approving is what he actually wanted to be released in the first place, what he intended us to hear but because of a bad engineer or record company exec calling the shots it missed what he or other artist intended originally.
Not sure I'm 100% onboard with that statement. It's more likely SW asked and received permission from Fripp or in the case of JTull whoever owns the publishing rights to do a remix. I doubt any of them were 'involved' in the mix and more likely had a listen and said "Sure...sounds great, release it".  Unless he royally f#@ked it up there is only $$ to be gained by another release for all parties involved.

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

What is recorded in a studio, we never hear, that only lives on the original master tapes and if you have ever heard that it sounds terrible! There is no mix, the volumes are all over the place sounds like a dog's breakfast coming out as diarrhea.
Are you taking about the multi track tapes here? Masters are usually the two track 1/4" tapes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2020 at 09:24
^ All print on what he has done states "approved by Robert Fripp...". From KC website..."Red in their 40th anniversary edition mixes as mixed and produced by Steven Wilson and Robert Fripp in 2009 - 2012."

Also on Lizard...Lizard finally reveals its true beauty. This 40th anniversary edition has been completely remixed from the original multitrack recording tapes for 5.1 Surround Sound & features a new stereo mix from the same source tapes by Robert Fripp & Steven Wilson.

I am sure there is grunt work that only SW did at the computer with the music files, but everything you read states that for example Fripp was involved in the remix and what was to be the final outcome.
On Aqualung, in the 40th anniversary booklet, SW describes how the remix was held as true as possible to the original regarding any effects like stereo, reverb, echo because he says the multi track tapes sounded so much better than what was issued in 71.
I guess if you want you can argue/question what is meant by "approved by", but I read more into that than just "sure sounds good release it.."

And yes I did mean the multi-track session tapes.....Thanks for catching that.
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