Rolling Stone Top 500 All Time Albums

I don't put much stock in them.  It's all based on opinion, no matter how professional they are.  Everyone hears something different when they listen to music and it always touches them in different ways.  

The only time I enjoy "top lists" when it comes to music is when it is put together by someone I know, including individuals in PA.  I have found artists I like that I otherwise might have passed by, but if I hear something I don't like, it's still okay, they like it and I don't, it doesn't make me or them any better or worse because of it.

Music should be listened to without prejudice.  Corporate-made lists only create prejudice in my opinion.

Catcher10 wrote: Although I disagree, there should be some representation from the Classical genre. I don't get what you mean a "musical score and not a recording". Beethoven wrote music and other people recorded that music, we don't have anything by him, but that's no different in Michael Jackson recording Thriller that was written by Rod Temperton....maybe I misunderstand your point.

My point is, the idea of the album as an art form is something that came with rock music. I would think of f.e. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band as an artistic work in its own right. I wouldn't think of a classical recording as a 'work' in the same way, but more as a recorded performance of the work (the 'work' here being the music that's written down by the composer). After all the European classical music tradition is the product of a time when sound recording did not exist, so the only way you could reproduce the music as written by the composer was the score. Or, as in folk music, by keeping the music alive from generation to generation, but then it naturally changed a lot over time.

Also, in the world of popular music, the performing artist gets most of the attention, and a song like Thriller is associated more with Michael Jackson than with Rod Temperton. The single cover doesn't say "Rod Temperton - Thriller (vocals by Michael Jackson)". I believe that's at least partly due to the impact of recorded music; people then get to hear the exact same performance of the song. In cover versions of popular music the arrangements usually differ a lot from the original. And to my knowledge, pop and rock arrangements are normally created in the studio or during band rehearsals. I don't know many rock musicians who write the music down on notes first, and then record it accordingly (except perhaps Frank Zappa).

With classical music there is a score that tells you exactly how to play the music, so the differences between performances of the same work are fewer. Of couse a classical piece can sound different because of how the conductor decides to phrase the notes, what tempo he uses, how good the musicians are, etc. These things have a big artistic impact of course, but it is still essentially the same notes.

To put it differently. If you are looking for "Thriller" in a record store, you will have to look under Michael Jackson, not Rod Temperton. But to find a Leonard Bernstein recording of Beethovens 5th symphony with the New York Philharmonic, you will have to look under Beethoven, not Bernstein, nor the New York Philharmonic.

That being said I think a list of "All Time" should include music that also came before and where it may have derived from. How Bernstein interpreted Beethoven's music is what is the point, Bernstein brought to us the majesty of Beethoven and that's all we can go by, excluding Beethoven because we don't have recordings of his own works is not a base for ignoring him. In that case one should never listen to classical music performed by someone else, since its not certain that is how it was suppose to sound...

Different topic for another thread, but you bring up a point about composers from yesteryear.

I worked my way back from there, as far as number 20, and I honestly don’t see what the problem is? 🤷🏻‍♂️ It seems a pretty good list based on those 20. I’ve not heard them all, but I’ve heard of them all, and I can recognise their importance in musical history.

Lists will always be subjective, and this one seems a better one than most, with an obvious attempt to be more diverse and inclusive than many others I’ve come across. Given the source, Rolling Stone, that’s even more impressive. That magazine is hardly a cornerstone of diversity and inclusivity, after all. I imagine this list may enrage its own readership as much as it seems to have riled some of you.

I’ve even less concern about the list of voters, which is again a diverse and inclusive pool.

Admittedly, I’ve not pursued the entire list. So yeah, perhaps it is still too Western-centric.  But from the small portion I did look at, it seems a “better” list than many I’ve seen (even though I might agree with some of those other lists more).

Yes, and no. Playing Devil’s Advocate, if these are the Greatest Albums of all time as seen through a Western-centric lens, then there are relatively few albums outside the UK or US that would be recognised as deserving of a spot - depending on how you understand “greatest”.

Unlike lists in any given year, where people attempt to portray the “greatest” albums of the year, and generally mean the best in as objective manner as they can muster, lists of all time tend to mean “greatest” to mean those that had the most impact or influence. So where in any given year, I would expect to see a large amount of albums not from the UK or US, I don’t expect to see the same from lists of all time. For the simple reason that most (NB I said most!) innovations in Western music have come from either the UK or the US.

So, if I were making a list of the greatest albums of all time that represented what I think (trying to be objective) are the best of all time, then it would likely have far more albums NOT from the UK and the US, than from those two behemoths.

But, if I were making a list of the greatest albums of all time that represented what I think (again trying to be objective) are the most impactful and influential of all time, then it would likely have far more albums from the UK and the US, than not. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I am perfectly fine with the list containing a lot of hiphop. After all, the genre has had an enormous influence within the last two decades, so it would be strange if it wasn't there. And once again, the number of rock albums is twice as big as the number of hiphop albums, at least in the top 50. The issue I have with the list is more the lack of general diversity, with regards to other types of music.

Hiphop is not my favourite genre either. There's a lot of stuff that I don't like personally, but at least I can acknowlege its artistic impact. When I do like hiphop, we're mostly speaking of the more experimental artists within the genre, and belive me, they do exist. The tough guy attitudes and misogynism present in a lot of hiphop puts me off personally, but hey, what about the Rolling Stones?... "Look at that stupid girl"... Or what about several hard rock anthems. Not to mention the famous lifestyle with groupies and all that... But just like in rock, not all hiphop is like that.

Not all rock music is equallly great either. I don't personally have high thoughts on the artistic value of Bon Jovi, Europe, Boston or Kiss. But what happened after the 60's was that rock was made the all-dominating totem post that everything else was alligned too. Today, rock is a genre along with other genres, and to be honest, I think that's fine. Why does rock have to dominate? The times they are a-changing...

Also, I think it's nonsense to say that rock is dead. As long as people are still making original and artistically significant rock music, the genre will stay alive. It may not be the musical mainstream anymore, but that doesn't mean it's not there. I think a band like Pom Poko is a very good example of contemporary rock music that is original. Or Idles who really have something to say about the times we are living in. If the definition of being alive was being in the mainstream, then jazz would be dead many years ago, but there are still people making significant jazz music.

I wondered about that, too, but didn’t like to say, as I had not looked at the entire list. It seemed unlikely that there were only 10 from outside the UK and US, but I was willing to accept it. Given you’ve identified something in the list that was stated as not being present, I’m happy to believe now that there are quite a bit more than 10.

I think some people are just getting their knickers in a twist, and making a storm in a teacup. Please feel free to add your own metaphors, and mix as you feel appropriate.