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Kind of Blue Sketches of Jack Johnson
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Poll Question: Which Miles Davis Album?
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Damn ya'll are some boring ass traditionalist! I bet you guys like Pink Floyd, too?! Wink

Just playing, folks! This is exactly what I predicted lol. I'm honestly surprised more people don't get into ATTJJ!

Exactly what I predicted, too. I find it surprising, even though I expected it (as paradoxical as that might sound), because you’d think on a prog forum people would go for something more than bread and butter.

I don’t disagree with any of the comments above that Blue is one of the greatest jazz albums ever. But it is straight up jazz. It surprises me that so many people prefer straight up jazz to something with a little more bite and edge. I love Blue - don’t get me wrong, but most prog fans I know tolerate jazz, or don’t really like it at all, unless it’s a bit “progged up”.

It’s only because I had a friend at school who was really into jazz, and got me into it, that I can appreciate Blue beyond recognising its greatness. Thus, while I would expect most people to recognise it being a great album, and it’s importance, I wouldn’t necessarily expect that recognition to translate into liking it.

I wonder how many people know and/or like Miles beyond the obvious (and almost cliché) candidates? That’s not meant as a criticism, or to be condescending, so much as an observation.

I've got to say the first time Miles really got me was when I watched Ascenseur pour l'echafaud, and that soundtrack isn't apparently even very appreciated among his albums. A friend of mine at the time was a big jazz fan and although I wasn't (and straight traditional jazz is still not really my thing), he also got me into Round About Midnight, Kind of Blue, and Sketches of Spain, of which I still find Sketches of Spain most special - certainly a very unusual thing to do and a unique album to this day.  I then more consciously explored his stuff and hit upon Bitches Brew. I don't know why, but I dismissed Jack Johnson and On The Corner after listening 5 minutes or so of each... that's probably hard to justify except that I was just 20 or so... I had a soft spot for Tutu at the time - one can criticise it for obvious reasons, but it's much better than what some other prog heroes came up with at the time, and it also has a life of its own.

Much later I bought pretty much all the live material between 1970 and 1975, which is at times a difficult listen but also innovative and exciting. Hadn't felt the need to revisit Jack Johnson, but chances are I should...

Ultimately music to most people, even prog fans, is as much about some unexplainable magic than about hitting the right "style". I can very easily imagine how a prog listener who isn't much into the early 70s Miles will prefer Kind of Blue for its obvious quality even if it is farther away from the focus of the general taste. For me personally it doesn't do that much, but Sketches of Spain does, big time.


Edited by Lewian - January 17 2021 at 05:40
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^ This sums it up quite nicely. I started diving into Miles Davis' music some 20-25 years ago, listened to many albums, bought only a few. From the earlier period (i.e. before Bitches Brew) I only have Sketches in Spain and L'ascenseur pour l'échafaud. And then BB and that's it (enough for me at the moment, maybe more albums later, when I grow up...).

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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:


Exactly what I predicted, too. I find it surprising, even though I expected it (as paradoxical as that might sound), because you’d think on a prog forum people would go for something more than bread and butter.

I don’t disagree with an d of the comments above that Blue is one of the greatest jazz albums ever. But it is straight up jazz. It surprises me that so many people prefer straight up jazz to something with a little more bite and edge. I love Blue - don’t get me wrong, but most prog fans I know tolerate jazz, or don’t really like it at all, unless it’s a bit “progged up”.

That's a rather immature view of jazz and why people would prefer acoustic as opposed to electric jazz, or in this case at least preferring Kind of Blue or Sketches of Spain as opposed to Jack Johnson. What, do you not like listening to Bach or Beethoven unless it's tarted up with a Stratocaster played through Marshall's? Or only listen to blues as played by Zeppelin or the Stones?

"Most people I know" will listen to a Frank Sinatra, Charlie Parker or Dave Brubeck album right after playing King Crimson's Lizard and Roy Harper's Stormcrow; in fact, that is pretty much what my wife and I listened to on a long drive yesterday.
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:


Exactly what I predicted, too. I find it surprising, even though I expected it (as paradoxical as that might sound), because you’d think on a prog forum people would go for something more than bread and butter.

I don’t disagree with an d of the comments above that Blue is one of the greatest jazz albums ever. But it is straight up jazz. It surprises me that so many people prefer straight up jazz to something with a little more bite and edge. I love Blue - don’t get me wrong, but most prog fans I know tolerate jazz, or don’t really like it at all, unless it’s a bit “progged up”.

That's a rather immature view of jazz and why people would prefer acoustic as opposed to electric jazz, or in this case at least preferring Kind of Blue or Sketches of Spain as opposed to Jack Johnson. What, do you not like listening to Bach or Beethoven unless it's tarted up with a Stratocaster played through Marshall's? Or only listen to blues as played by Zeppelin or the Stones?

"Most people I know" will listen to a Frank Sinatra, Charlie Parker or Dave Brubeck album right after playing King Crimson's Lizard and Roy Harper's Stormcrow; in fact, that is pretty much what my wife and I listened to on a long drive yesterday.

That’s not what I said at all. I’m not comparing acoustic and electric jazz, so much as jazz (not prog) and jazz fusion (prog). Jazz can be acoustic or electric and still be straight forward jazz. Jazz fusion can be acoustic or electric. I not once used the terms acoustic or electric, and you have completely misconstrued what I meant. I’m not going to argue with you, since I’m not even entirely sure what you’re arguing - so far away from what I thought I was saying have you travelled. Perhaps I was not clear enough, in which case I apologise. But what you have described is indeed an “immature” view of jazz, and not what I was suggesting. 🙄

Most people I know have similarly eclectic tastes, so again you are taking from what I’m saying something completely different from what I was saying.

All your arguments against what I said are false inferences that I can’t argue with, because I agree with them. But they are not what I said.... 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:


Exactly what I predicted, too. I find it surprising, even though I expected it (as paradoxical as that might sound), because you’d think on a prog forum people would go for something more than bread and butter.

I don’t disagree with an d of the comments above that Blue is one of the greatest jazz albums ever. But it is straight up jazz. It surprises me that so many people prefer straight up jazz to something with a little more bite and edge. I love Blue - don’t get me wrong, but most prog fans I know tolerate jazz, or don’t really like it at all, unless it’s a bit “progged up”.

That's a rather immature view of jazz and why people would prefer acoustic as opposed to electric jazz, or in this case at least preferring Kind of Blue or Sketches of Spain as opposed to Jack Johnson. What, do you not like listening to Bach or Beethoven unless it's tarted up with a Stratocaster played through Marshall's? Or only listen to blues as played by Zeppelin or the Stones?

"Most people I know" will listen to a Frank Sinatra, Charlie Parker or Dave Brubeck album right after playing King Crimson's Lizard and Roy Harper's Stormcrow; in fact, that is pretty much what my wife and I listened to on a long drive yesterday.

That’s not what I said at all. I’m not comparing acoustic and electric jazz, so much as jazz (not prog) and jazz fusion (prog). Jazz can be acoustic or electric and still be straight forward jazz. Jazz fusion can be acoustic or electric. I not once used the terms acoustic or electric, and you have completely misconstrued what I meant. I’m not going to argue with you, since I’m not even entirely sure what you’re arguing - so far away from what I thought I was saying have you travelled. Perhaps I was not clear enough, in which case I apologise. But what you have described is indeed an “immature” view of jazz, and not what I was suggesting. 🙄

Most people I know have similarly eclectic tastes, so again you are taking from what I’m saying something completely different from what I was saying.

All your arguments against what I said are false inferences that I can’t argue with, because I agree with them. But they are not what I said.... 🤷🏻‍♂️


Again, your direct quote:

"But it is straight up jazz. It surprises me that so many people prefer straight up jazz to something with a little more bite and edge. I love Blue - don’t get me wrong, but most prog fans I know tolerate jazz, or don’t really like it at all, unless it’s a bit “progged up”.

I am not sure how to take that statement other than taking it at face value. Perhaps you didn't mean what you said, but I can only draw from a direct inference that jazz is not as suitable to you unless it is "progged up", and that can only mean some sort of fusion sound that includes electric guitars, synths and more of rock sound (which is exactly what Jack Johnson is); ergo, you can't understand why someone would prefer jazz that is acoustic and not fusion, because you only tolerate it.
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Yeah, you clearly aren’t reading all I’ve said. I have said that I love Blue, and that I think it is one of the greatest jazz albums ever made. I have said I expected it to top this poll. You seem to be picking and choosing the wrong pieces of what I have said. I have no argument with you, because you’re arguing against something I never said! 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:


Exactly what I predicted, too. I find it surprising, even though I expected it (as paradoxical as that might sound), because you’d think on a prog forum people would go for something more than bread and butter.

I don’t disagree with an d of the comments above that Blue is one of the greatest jazz albums ever. But it is straight up jazz. It surprises me that so many people prefer straight up jazz to something with a little more bite and edge. I love Blue - don’t get me wrong, but most prog fans I know tolerate jazz, or don’t really like it at all, unless it’s a bit “progged up”.

That's a rather immature view of jazz and why people would prefer acoustic as opposed to electric jazz, or in this case at least preferring Kind of Blue or Sketches of Spain as opposed to Jack Johnson. What, do you not like listening to Bach or Beethoven unless it's tarted up with a Stratocaster played through Marshall's? Or only listen to blues as played by Zeppelin or the Stones?

"Most people I know" will listen to a Frank Sinatra, Charlie Parker or Dave Brubeck album right after playing King Crimson's Lizard and Roy Harper's Stormcrow; in fact, that is pretty much what my wife and I listened to on a long drive yesterday.

Yea just finished reading all the posts.....I agree. Not sure how someone can call KoB "straight up jazz" and he uses that term 2x. But since he usually adds in his post the words "subjective, objective", that leaves room for correction after the fact. Confused

Pretty much every serious and active jazz listener of different eras and styles would never label KoB "straight up jazz", it's pretty hard to label anything Miles Davis created as "straight up jazz". 
The problem with that thinking is jazz in general is not straight up anything especially the period we are discussing which is highly experimental and off the cuff with many recordings being done in one take or from studio jam sessions. Most of the time the players came to the studio not even knowing what they were going to play....

As far as which I prefer, which is what the OP is asking, that will always be KoB. Sketches has a mood to it that is Latin flavored and from that for the most part I have to be in the mood for it. JJ being a tribute album and more rock/electric again puts me in a different mood to listen to it, for me it is the start of Miles going down the more fusion/rock/electric jazz road than his more seminal modal road that he blazed with KoB.

All three albums are essential listening and require many many plays to fully understand. 
KoB is an album that I can spin any day of the year, any time of the day or night and in any mood I am in.........As stated above, I can easily spin that album after listening to Haken, Rush, DT or Prince.
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I have all 3....I usually reach for Kind of Blue.
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:


Exactly what I predicted, too. I find it surprising, even though I expected it (as paradoxical as that might sound), because you’d think on a prog forum people would go for something more than bread and butter.

I don’t disagree with an d of the comments above that Blue is one of the greatest jazz albums ever. But it is straight up jazz. It surprises me that so many people prefer straight up jazz to something with a little more bite and edge. I love Blue - don’t get me wrong, but most prog fans I know tolerate jazz, or don’t really like it at all, unless it’s a bit “progged up”.

That's a rather immature view of jazz and why people would prefer acoustic as opposed to electric jazz, or in this case at least preferring Kind of Blue or Sketches of Spain as opposed to Jack Johnson. What, do you not like listening to Bach or Beethoven unless it's tarted up with a Stratocaster played through Marshall's? Or only listen to blues as played by Zeppelin or the Stones?

"Most people I know" will listen to a Frank Sinatra, Charlie Parker or Dave Brubeck album right after playing King Crimson's Lizard and Roy Harper's Stormcrow; in fact, that is pretty much what my wife and I listened to on a long drive yesterday.

That’s not what I said at all. I’m not comparing acoustic and electric jazz, so much as jazz (not prog) and jazz fusion (prog). Jazz can be acoustic or electric and still be straight forward jazz. Jazz fusion can be acoustic or electric. I not once used the terms acoustic or electric, and you have completely misconstrued what I meant. I’m not going to argue with you, since I’m not even entirely sure what you’re arguing - so far away from what I thought I was saying have you travelled. Perhaps I was not clear enough, in which case I apologise. But what you have described is indeed an “immature” view of jazz, and not what I was suggesting. 🙄

Most people I know have similarly eclectic tastes, so again you are taking from what I’m saying something completely different from what I was saying.

All your arguments against what I said are false inferences that I can’t argue with, because I agree with them. But they are not what I said.... 🤷🏻‍♂️


Again, your direct quote:

"But it is straight up jazz. It surprises me that so many people prefer straight up jazz to something with a little more bite and edge. I love Blue - don’t get me wrong, but most prog fans I know tolerate jazz, or don’t really like it at all, unless it’s a bit “progged up”.

I am not sure how to take that statement other than taking it at face value. Perhaps you didn't mean what you said, but I can only draw from a direct inference that jazz is not as suitable to you unless it is "progged up", and that can only mean some sort of fusion sound that includes electric guitars, synths and more of rock sound (which is exactly what Jack Johnson is); ergo, you can't understand why someone would prefer jazz that is acoustic and not fusion, because you only tolerate it.

You literally took one facet of this dude's opinion and ushered a triggered SJW (NOT ALL X ARE Y, BRO!) response to it, rather than just explaining why you enjoy the album. Everything you accuse this dude of you also then exemplify in your post; "My opinion is your opinion is a bad opinion", lmao. Awesome use of energy guys. This is probably why people write and play jazz LOL.


Edited by Frenetic Zetetic - January 18 2021 at 00:03

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Sure Kind Of Blue isn't "straight up jazz" by a historical metric... but by a modern metric what could sound more standard to jazz than getting some great players on some standards, playing the head once or twice, then driving off into solo land for the next 6-7 minutes before going back to the head to close. The fact that the material on Kind Of Blue is modal as opposed to bebop or swing doesn't mean much to people who don't listen to much jazz, so I totally get why Kind Of Blue would be referred to as "straight up jazz" from a certain perspective. It certainly seems the normal one out of the three albums mentioned in the poll. 

It's a great album, no denying, but I also get the surprise at seeing so many prog heads go for arguably the least prog album here. 

I'll also leave this with a paraphrased comment I heard at a college jazz festival from one of the judges. It went something like "when I was in college and I was playing gigs most nights, sometimes I'd bring a girl back to my apartment afterwards. I'd put on Kind Of Blue by Miles Davis, and nine times out of ten the girl would say something like wow this is some really deeeep jazz! Right then I always knew they weren't right for me. Then one time a brought a girl back to my apartment, put on Kind Of Blue, and she could hum every solo. She became my wife." Take that as you will.
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Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

Kind Of Blue, one of the greatest straight up jazz albums ever released.

Funnily enough, I wasn’t the first person to describe it thus in this discussion, even if I were the first to be crucified for doing so.

I’m unsure if anyone here follows Cedric Hendrix on FB, but he also uses the phrase “straight ahead” jazz, and he is a huge jazz head.

There is nothing intrinsically negative about calling something straight up/ahead/forward. It’s merely a descriptor for use as comparison, and often used when the audience is not necessarily familiar with perhaps more appropriate terms. Perhaps it is condescending to assume so, but it is a pragmatic approach, which has been used by many people over the years, and I have never seen it “backfire” in the way it did here.

Without using jazz specific terms, which clearly a lot of you will know, Blue is a straight up/ahead/forward jazz album.

Digging myself deeper, I guess, all I can do is reiterate that I was expecting Blue to win this poll, but it still surprises me. I don’t understand how that drew such animosity, but humans are strange creatures, and the slightest thing can set them off. Once down a path, it can be hard for them to come back, hence why I’ve never really tried to argue with The Dark Elf. For a start, I’d only be arguing with myself, as it seems The Dark Elf and I share much the same opinion, and the only difference has been a misunderstanding of my initial post.

I love plenty of jazz that is straight up/ahead/forward, and often I prefer that. For example, Cedric Hendrix was talking about Donny McCaslin when he most recently used the term straight ahead jazz. This is because McCaslin doesn’t stick to one style of jazz. And although I like his most recent album Blow, I prefer it when he plays “straight up” jazz.

In the case of Miles Davis, the situation is reversed, and although I like Blue, I prefer the more prog takes on jazz. The reason, I think, is because Davis was so good at taking something known and turning it into something very different. So for me, despite Blue being one of the greatest straight up jazz albums ever, and being wonderful, and being an album I love, I’m more inclined to put on something a little different when it comes to listening to Davis.

That’s why I’d put JJ and Spain above Blue. It doesn’t mean I don’t like Blue. It doesn’t mean I think it is a worse album. It’s merely a personal preference. And my surprise is only that more others here don’t share a similar preference - not for any arrogant or egotistical reason, so much as I’m aware that this is a prog forum, where people (apart from Paul) tend to like to explore a great range of sounds and styles. Explore, I guess, being the key word. Blue is great, but it’s not explorative.

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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:


Digging myself deeper, I guess, all I can do is reiterate that I was expecting Blue to win this poll, but it still surprises me. I don’t understand how that drew such animosity, 

From the "outside" that's quite easy to see, because not only did you say these things, you also made it something of a criticism of the people here by writing things such as "I'd have expected people go for more than just bread and butter".


Edited by Lewian - January 18 2021 at 04:43
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I meant no criticism. But hey, if people want to take it that way, that’s their prerogative.

Bread and butter is no criticism. It’s something eminently palatable and pleasant. I often eat bread and butter. I like bread and butter. I think the problem perhaps is that by bread and butter I imply “pure”, but some people have inferred “basic”.

There is nothing basic about Blue. Modal jazz was revolutionary, and Blue was the vanguard of that revolution.

But in modern terms, modal jazz is pure jazz. Bread and butter jazz.

Without bread and butter, we’d not have so many other delectable delights, so it’s importance can never be disregarded. But nor should it ever be ignored. There is always a place for bread and butter, and people will always enjoy it. I expect them to enjoy it. Given its place in the PA top albums rankings, I would expect it to top this poll.

The only controversial thing I seem to have done is express my surprise, despite the expectation. And I think it is largely because people have taken my surprise to be a negative reaction, when it is not. I’m happily surprised by people choosing Blue over JJ and Spain. I think it’s a good thing that they have. People have simply been reading too much into my words than was actually said. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[EDIT] And, that said, I’m actually really quite happy that people have misinterpreted and misconstrued what I said and meant. It’s invited some quite interesting discussion. Certainly more interesting than you find in a lot of the poll posts, where the majority of responses are just “I choose X”.



Edited by nick_h_nz - January 18 2021 at 04:55
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Correct. What you mean is one thing, what others see in your writing is another. It won't hurt anyone to consider a bit what others could be expected see in one's writing though. It wasn't a surprise to me. You can say that you didn't mean it like this, fair enough, but the explanation why some people see something else in it may have a bit more to do with your own writing than you seem to be prepared to accept. "They just saw something that wasn't there" is too easy an explanation in my view (and looks like another implicit criticism).


Edited by Lewian - January 18 2021 at 04:58
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^Not really. I am happy to acknowledge that i was not clear, and have done so. I just went back to check, and my exact words were: “Perhaps I was not clear enough, in which case I apologise”.  I have apologised in a similar fashion in other forum threads. I am well aware I must not be expressing myself well, because it seems to be a continual thing since beginning posting that people take from what I wrote something other than what I intended. Therefore, I am well aware the fault is likely to lie with my writing, rather than others’ (mis)interpretations of what I’ve written. I’ve acknowledged this, and apologised for this each time.

But, as I have also said, I’m not only not too worried, but actually quite happy, because more often than not, some really interesting conversations have developed. I can hardly get upset about being misunderstood, if I am so often misunderstood, as that indicates I am the cause - so I would be upset only with myself! 🤪

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

 I've got to say the first time Miles really got me was when I watched Ascenseur pour l'echafaud, and that soundtrack isn't apparently even very appreciated among his albums. A friend of mine at the time was a big jazz fan and although I wasn't (and straight traditional jazz is still not really my thing), he also got me into Round About Midnight, Kind of Blue, and Sketches of Spain, of which I still find Sketches of Spain most special - certainly a very unusual thing to do and a unique album to this day.  I then more consciously explored his stuff and hit upon Bitches Brew. I don't know why, but I dismissed Jack Johnson and On The Corner after listening 5 minutes or so of each... that's probably hard to justify except that I was just 20 or so... I had a soft spot for Tutu at the time - one can criticise it for obvious reasons, but it's much better than what some other prog heroes came up with at the time, and it also has a life of its own. 

Much later I bought pretty much all the live material between 1970 and 1975, which is at times a difficult listen but also innovative and exciting. Hadn't felt the need to revisit Jack Johnson, but chances are I should...

Ultimately music to most people, even prog fans, is as much about some unexplainable magic than about hitting the right "style". I can very easily imagine how a prog listener who isn't much into the early 70s Miles will prefer Kind of Blue for its obvious quality even if it is farther away from the focus of the general taste. For me personally it doesn't do that much, but Sketches of Spain does, big time.

I agree with absolutely everything you say here, by the way. I gave thanks for your post, but that’s kind of anonymous and invisible, so I figured I would make my thanks explicit.

Two of my first five Davis albums were Amandia and Aura, which I still love, but suspect a lot of people who like Davis might not share the same level of affection. We all like different things, to different extents, and music will speak to us all in different ways.

Blue is kind of universal, so in that sense, it is no great surprise that it tops the poll. My surprise, I guess, is that more often than not PA forum users tend to deviate from the universal. There is certainly nothing wrong with sticking with the mainstream. And what is mainstream changes over the years. Blue was not mainstream contemporaneously, but is seen as such now. Swings and roundabouts, etc.






Edited by nick_h_nz - January 18 2021 at 05:18
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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:


[EDIT] And, that said, I’m actually really quite happy that people have misinterpreted and misconstrued what I said and meant. It’s invited some quite interesting discussion. Certainly more interesting than you find in a lot of the poll posts, where the majority of responses are just “I choose X”.


I think the discussions are more about what you said not about the poll topic or the music, so from that point yes there is more writing here than simply people saying "I choose X". I think it is easy to tell peoples "tone" in a post and Lewian heard it too. For sure it is all of our prerogative to take a post anyway we want, but your post was pretty clear. Big of you to at least acknowledge some of what you wrote you really did not mean it that way. Thumbs Up

I think when comparing albums and works from a specific time period, you/we (at least I do) should look at it from that time period, not today. Yea I can see how some just really look at KoB as a standard, regular jazz album today especially if you are just getting into jazz or really have not looked back to see how it actually came about, in that time period. 
The fact that we are still talking about an album from 1959 is a clear indicator that there is not much standard or regular about it, but more that there is something highly special/different about it.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:


[EDIT] And, that said, I’m actually really quite happy that people have misinterpreted and misconstrued what I said and meant. It’s invited some quite interesting discussion. Certainly more interesting than you find in a lot of the poll posts, where the majority of responses are just “I choose X”.


I think the discussions are more about what you said not about the poll topic or the music, so from that point yes there is more writing here than simply people saying "I choose X". I think it is easy to tell peoples "tone" in a post and Lewian heard it too. For sure it is all of our prerogative to take a post anyway we want, but your post was pretty clear. Big of you to at least acknowledge some of what you wrote you really did not mean it that way. Thumbs Up

I think when comparing albums and works from a specific time period, you/we (at least I do) should look at it from that time period, not today. Yea I can see how some just really look at KoB as a standard, regular jazz album today especially if you are just getting into jazz or really have not looked back to see how it actually came about, in that time period. 
The fact that we are still talking about an album from 1959 is a clear indicator that there is not much standard or regular about it, but more that there is something highly special/different about it.

I would dispute that (as I’m sure you would expect me to), as the discussion - even when about what I said - have been about what makes Blue straight forward, or not. And it seems ridiculous for you to say my post was pretty clear, when it obviously was not if people took different meanings from it than were intended. What I assume you mean is that my post was pretty unclear? As for acknowledging the lack of clarity, there is nothing big about doing so. Nooner can own up to a mistake, and should too. Obviously I know what I meant, even if several others didn’t. That’s why I apologised for not being clear. But otherwise we seem to all have been on the same page from the start.

As for discussing albums in their time, or from the present perspective, I think each have a validity. It depends on why and how you are describing the album. For my purposes, I acknowledged that it was a revolutionary album in its time, but from a modern point of view it can easily not provide as much interest for many - and particularly those who are not well acquainted with jazz, and less interested in straight up jazz. Yes, it wasn’t straight up then, but that is kind or irrelevant in some ways now.
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You can claim your post was unclear........but it was not. It was clear to you, and it was clear to many of us what you were stating. It was only after we questioned what you wrote that you took a different angle.

I highly doubt your the type of person that would post something unclear.....but as you state it is your prerogative to take your own post how you like.

Carry on.......
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

You can claim your post was unclear........but it was not. It was clear to you, and it was clear to many of us what you were stating. It was only after we questioned what you wrote that you took a different angle.

I highly doubt your the type of person that would post something unclear.....but as you state it is your prerogative to take your own post how you like.

Carry on.......

Given you and I have disagreed before over what I have said, I would have thought that made it obvious that I had been unclear? I’ve not come back at any different angle at all. Nothing I have said now is in disagreement with anything I said to begin with, or any post in between. I have maintained the same argument throughout. The fact that you can’t see that shows it was unclear. You’re right that I thought my post was clear to me, which is why I apologised so quickly when I realised that it had not been taken as I intended.

Tell me what I am saying now that is different from originally?

I expected to see Blue top this poll, but it surprises me.
Why? Because it is straight up bread and butter jazz, and I thought people here would go for something else.

The discussion that has followed, regardless of whether it has been about how clear or unclear my post was originally, and regardless of whether you agree with what I’ve said, has been interesting for me. If not for you, fine. But it has been interesting to see how people interpret straight up, and as far as I can see there’s been little to say that Blue is not (in modern terms) straight up jazz, regardless of how revolutionary it was.

At least you are bing more civil this time than last. So that’s something! 🤗
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^ Thanks
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