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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Also, regarding the original post, I really hope you're not referring to my Future Bites review. I specifically stated that I'm fine with Wilson making a pop record as long as it's executed well (see: To the Bone). But to me, it simply was a matter of poor execution and messaging rather than a matter of genre

For me, the problem with The Future Bites was the marketing hype that was going on for months before the album came out (I think it was delayed by COVID). It was a smart campaign that seemed to be taking the p*ss out of his own fans and with that type of campaign you're expecting the greatest album ever (I think it was called "OK Computer for the 2010s or something like that) and it's therefore quite likely to be a bit of a letdown for some.


EXACTLY! I knew I couldn't have been the only one who had issues revolving around the marketing and messaging as much as the music itself. Not to mention, this is the same guy who constantly criticized technology and phone use, while promoting the damn album on TikTok! I don't mind him using TikTok - there's not much money in music anymore as it is, so good on him for using new marketing strategies - but it's the hypocrisy that bothers me. And unfortunately that's a flaw that runs deep in the album as a whole (especially on Personal Shopper)


I agree! I mentioned in the thread about the record that I'm not a fan of this social messaging krapp. If someone wants to spend money on useless stuff, who cares, and for whatever reasons. Although I am sure he is simply playing on that for song subjects, not sure he truly feels that way especially when he is buying expensive LP and CD boxsets of stuff he already has as noted in his most recent What's In My Bag video by Amoeba Records. Not sure I would call him hypocritical, I think he's just using it for topic......

I too think he misses the boat on creating a true pop album, he's not a pop singer or musician like ABBA, Prince or the Beatles (Dead). Plus the musicians he used are not pop musicians, to create a pop albums he's really gonna have to go outside his box of support musicians. Again, that being said I do like the album. If he really, really wants to be a pop star, ain't gonna happen buddy, it's not in his DNA.

You can like SWilson's pop albums all you like Jose. Just don't dis the Beatles in the same post, because SWilson is no better or worse than the Fabs now.
I gave the Fabs praise for being pop musicians......I can't make anyone happy round these parts, sheesh.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Its a prog rock forum so we want prog rock. I get a bit fed up stating a simple fact , this forum wouldn't exist with ELP, Genesis , Yes etc doing their thing when they did it. You can pretend all you like that we all want new music but actually I don't really believe it. We just want a feeling that we had 40 years ago. Trouble is that just isn't happening , not really. The late sixties and early seventies was a unique time for music. It will never likely happen again. Get over it. Anyway where is M27Barney when you need him to talk about panheads or whatever.Wink
As I mentioned earlier that we really want the progressive rock from 70/80s (who wouldn't), so I can agree with this also. Part of it also is that we may want that feeling of being a teenager and opening up that album by ELP, Rush, Yes, KC, Pink Floyd and going "WOW, that's amazing!!" I have not done that or had that feeling in 30yrs......So yea starting to feel it will never happen again.

It's ok, there are tons of albums I have not spun in years that still make me smile when I finally get around to them. 
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King Crimson worked with a great lyricist and I think more bands should do that. Progrock should focus more on stories in my opinion. Marillion got prog big again in the eighties because that band had a story to tell.
I'm guitarist and songwriter for the prog-related band Mother Bass. Find us at http://www.motherbass.com. I also enter stages throughout the Netherlands performing my poetry.
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


I don't doubt your sincerity as it's a laudable but strictly minority view when you consider the vast majority of top 100 albums listed on PA's front page were recorded 30 to 40 years ago and represent an unequivocal preference for 'Dad Prog' over 'Sprog Prog'. Many of these will of course be new to many but only by virtue of us not having heard what is now historical music. Music journalist

Of course, prog rock was not the future—at least, not more than anything else was. Nowadays, it seems clear that rock history is not linear but cyclical. There is no grand evolution, just an endless process of rediscovery and reappraisal, as various styles and poses go in and out of fashion. We no longer, many of us, believe in the idea of musical progress. All the more reason, perhaps, to savor the music of those who did. (Kelefa Sanneh)

Similar to my expectations of people not speaking to my motivations I won't speak to others. ;)

I think you are correct, I'm sure I'm in a niche of a niche in terms of my tastes. The bulk of the conversations here about Dad Prog. I happily enjoy and participate in those as I'm a fan of all that stuff too. I really don't need to listen to TAAB, CTTE, SEBTP, WYWH more than every couple of years as they are burnt into my subconscious. I spent a lot more time exploring 'new to me' music whether its from 1969 or 2021.

 My listening this morning Cluster - I from 1971 which I had never heard before and the new Thumbscrew release that came out yesterday.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Its a prog rock forum so we want prog rock. I get a bit fed up stating a simple fact , this forum wouldn't exist with ELP, Genesis , Yes etc doing their thing when they did it. You can pretend all you like that we all want new music but actually I don't really believe it. We just want a feeling that we had 40 years ago. Trouble is that just isn't happening , not really. The late sixties and early seventies was a unique time for music. It will never likely happen again. Get over it. Anyway where is M27Barney when you need him to talk about panheads or whatever.Wink
As I mentioned earlier that we really want the progressive rock from 70/80s (who wouldn't), so I can agree with this also. Part of it also is that we may want that feeling of being a teenager and opening up that album by ELP, Rush, Yes, KC, Pink Floyd and going "WOW, that's amazing!!" I have not done that or had that feeling in 30yrs......So yea starting to feel it will never happen again.

It's ok, there are tons of albums I have not spun in years that still make me smile when I finally get around to them. 

Maybe it’s an age thing? Those that were there at the time, don’t want anything more than the early prog?

As for who wouldn’t? Well you mention the ‘70s and the ‘80s, and while there is (sooooo) much from the ‘70s I love, there is very little from the ‘80s i like - at least in terms of what is listed on PA, anyway. Every decade since the ‘80s is better than the ‘80s for me, and a lot of prog from the ‘90s onward, I far prefer to that from the ‘70s. Maybe it’s because I’m just that little bit younger, that I didn’t experience prog in the ‘70s?

There was a poll awhile back that asked if you could keep only the music up to the ‘90s in your collection, or only the music from the ‘90s onwards, it was a no-brainier for me. You can keep the ‘70s and ‘80s, but I’m going to keep on exploring the new!

(And yes, I’m well aware that there is plenty yet for me to explore from before the ‘90s, and I’m still exploring it, and thoroughly enjoying doing so - but in this hypothetical scenario, I would easily choose to leave it behind.)
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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Its a prog rock forum so we want prog rock. I get a bit fed up stating a simple fact , this forum wouldn't exist with ELP, Genesis , Yes etc doing their thing when they did it. You can pretend all you like that we all want new music but actually I don't really believe it. We just want a feeling that we had 40 years ago. Trouble is that just isn't happening , not really. The late sixties and early seventies was a unique time for music. It will never likely happen again. Get over it. Anyway where is M27Barney when you need him to talk about panheads or whatever.Wink
As I mentioned earlier that we really want the progressive rock from 70/80s (who wouldn't), so I can agree with this also. Part of it also is that we may want that feeling of being a teenager and opening up that album by ELP, Rush, Yes, KC, Pink Floyd and going "WOW, that's amazing!!" I have not done that or had that feeling in 30yrs......So yea starting to feel it will never happen again.

It's ok, there are tons of albums I have not spun in years that still make me smile when I finally get around to them. 

Maybe it’s an age thing? Those that were there at the time, don’t want anything more than the early prog?

As for who wouldn’t? Well you mention the ‘70s and the ‘80s, and while there is (sooooo) much from the ‘70s I love, there is very little from the ‘80s i like - at least in terms of what is listed on PA, anyway. Every decade since the ‘80s is better than the ‘80s for me, and a lot of prog from the ‘90s onward, I far prefer to that from the ‘70s. Maybe it’s because I’m just that little bit younger, that I didn’t experience prog in the ‘70s?

There was a poll awhile back that asked if you could keep only the music up to the ‘90s in your collection, or only the music from the ‘90s onwards, it was a no-brainier for me. You can keep the ‘70s and ‘80s, but I’m going to keep on exploring the new!

(And yes, I’m well aware that there is plenty yet for me to explore from before the ‘90s, and I’m still exploring it, and thoroughly enjoying doing so - but in this hypothetical scenario, I would easily choose to leave it behind.)

Well I don't/didn't mention the 60s, for me there was really not much if any progressive rock 'cept for a couple albums, but nothing to the volume of the 70s or 80s. The 90s for me was weird, music wise, tons of pop rock/grunge/metal not much I consider progressive rock music, but that's just me. 
Exploring and what we want from the artists may be two different topics........

Based on the mood on YouTube recently with the reaction genre people, young people talking about "dad's" prog rock album collection and in general most topics are about music from the 70/80s I would suspect the younger audience is taking a liking to this old music, sure they like their hip/hop and alternative stuff but this old music, prog in nature usually is hitting their like button often it seems. Music created in the 70/80s to me was just better, bands recording live in the studio together and better musicians that probably understood music creation and actually knew how to read/write music.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Also, regarding the original post, I really hope you're not referring to my Future Bites review. I specifically stated that I'm fine with Wilson making a pop record as long as it's executed well (see: To the Bone). But to me, it simply was a matter of poor execution and messaging rather than a matter of genre

For me, the problem with The Future Bites was the marketing hype that was going on for months before the album came out (I think it was delayed by COVID). It was a smart campaign that seemed to be taking the p*ss out of his own fans and with that type of campaign you're expecting the greatest album ever (I think it was called "OK Computer for the 2010s or something like that) and it's therefore quite likely to be a bit of a letdown for some.


EXACTLY! I knew I couldn't have been the only one who had issues revolving around the marketing and messaging as much as the music itself. Not to mention, this is the same guy who constantly criticized technology and phone use, while promoting the damn album on TikTok! I don't mind him using TikTok - there's not much money in music anymore as it is, so good on him for using new marketing strategies - but it's the hypocrisy that bothers me. And unfortunately that's a flaw that runs deep in the album as a whole (especially on Personal Shopper)


I agree! I mentioned in the thread about the record that I'm not a fan of this social messaging krapp. If someone wants to spend money on useless stuff, who cares, and for whatever reasons. Although I am sure he is simply playing on that for song subjects, not sure he truly feels that way especially when he is buying expensive LP and CD boxsets of stuff he already has as noted in his most recent What's In My Bag video by Amoeba Records. Not sure I would call him hypocritical, I think he's just using it for topic......

I too think he misses the boat on creating a true pop album, he's not a pop singer or musician like ABBA, Prince or the Beatles (Dead). Plus the musicians he used are not pop musicians, to create a pop albums he's really gonna have to go outside his box of support musicians. Again, that being said I do like the album. If he really, really wants to be a pop star, ain't gonna happen buddy, it's not in his DNA.

You can like SWilson's pop albums all you like Jose. Just don't dis the Beatles in the same post, because SWilson is no better or worse than the Fabs now.

I gave the Fabs praise for being pop musicians......I can't make anyone happy round these parts, sheesh.
How is putting a sick face emoji after The Beatles' name giving them props? It doesn't matter, I was not being serious about it.

You made a good point about Wilson using prog musicians to make pop songs. I seriously believe that some musicians should stick to thier own genres. That's what session musicians are for. Perhaps Wilson should use the Monkees next time.

Edited by SteveG - February 26 2021 at 11:39
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I only want artists to do one thing:

Let your creativity guide you.
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When I think of my favourite bands, I generally come across with outputs that are done with inspiration and taking the time. Symphony X and Keldian are examples to the ones that stick to that principle. I also generally lose my interest if a band always "try" to do different things. If your inspiration is profound and abundant, you just can "do" that; it transcends the notion of "trying". I don't want to give negative examples right now...

Edited by Shadowyzard - February 26 2021 at 12:29
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Its a prog rock forum so we want prog rock. I get a bit fed up stating a simple fact , this forum wouldn't exist with ELP, Genesis , Yes etc doing their thing when they did it. You can pretend all you like that we all want new music but actually I don't really believe it. We just want a feeling that we had 40 years ago. Trouble is that just isn't happening , not really. The late sixties and early seventies was a unique time for music. It will never likely happen again. Get over it. Anyway where is M27Barney when you need him to talk about panheads or whatever.Wink

Yuck. Very glad M27Barney is gone. He was very rude, narrow-minded, and kind of chauvinistic in my view.
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I just deny that this forum is about discovering new music. Don't get me wrong I enjoy a lot of 'new' music and that word should be put in parenthesis because its not really new style wise and of course I know that and really don't care and certainly don't think it matters. I think there is a snobbery about the attitude of many here that I find disconcerting and unnecessary.  It seems this is more the point to demonstrate that you have a superior outlook than actually make any sensible recommendations , mainly because most are not really interested I suspect. Hey ho does it matter? No, it really doesn't , just enjoy music for what it is BUT seriously the seventies is not returning any time soon. The king is dead but long live the king.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I just deny that this forum is about discovering new music. Don't get me wrong I enjoy a lot of 'new' music and that word should be put in parenthesis because its not really new style wise and of course I know that and really don't care and certainly don't think it matters. I think there is a snobbery about the attitude of many here that I find disconcerting and unnecessary.  It seems this is more the point to demonstrate that you have a superior outlook than actually make any sensible recommendations , mainly because most are not really interested I suspect. Hey ho does it matter? No, it really doesn't , just enjoy music for what it is BUT seriously the seventies is not returning any time soon. The king is dead but long live the king.

The only snobbery I have seen so far has been from you. But perhaps I am merely inferring something from your words that was not intended. In the same vein, perhaps you are doing likewise for those you feel are being snobby?

I think most people here choose to listen to music they like, and don’t care particularly what others think. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I just deny that this forum is about discovering new music. Don't get me wrong I enjoy a lot of 'new' music and that word should be put in parenthesis because its not really new style wise and of course I know that and really don't care and certainly don't think it matters. I think there is a snobbery about the attitude of many here that I find disconcerting and unnecessary.  It seems this is more the point to demonstrate that you have a superior outlook than actually make any sensible recommendations , mainly because most are not really interested I suspect. Hey ho does it matter? No, it really doesn't , just enjoy music for what it is BUT seriously the seventies is not returning any time soon. The king is dead but long live the king.

The only snobbery I have seen so far has been from you. But perhaps I am merely inferring something from your words that was not intended. In the same vein, perhaps you are doing likewise for those you feel are being snobby?

I think most people here choose to listen to music they like, and don’t care particularly what others think. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Hi,

The history in "music" does not show a lot of "second comings", and usually the "age" dissipates quickly anyway ... however the music history in the past 100 years, likely has been more varied because of the media finding it and mentioning it, something that did not happen before a whole lot ... and Beethoven and Tchaikovsky never benefitted from the "media". So, to say that it is DEAD and long live anyone in it, is a very fair statement that is educated, to the point of making comments against it show immediately the fan'ism, or what I now call the "_rump'ism" that is the only "snobbery" that I see in this board, and how sad it is when a serious statement is being considered snobbish, when it is closer to the truth than otherwise ... but as usual, the media manikins with always choose a top five until the day they leave us ... sad but true.
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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I just deny that this forum is about discovering new music. Don't get me wrong I enjoy a lot of 'new' music and that word should be put in parenthesis because its not really new style wise and of course I know that and really don't care and certainly don't think it matters. I think there is a snobbery about the attitude of many here that I find disconcerting and unnecessary.  It seems this is more the point to demonstrate that you have a superior outlook than actually make any sensible recommendations , mainly because most are not really interested I suspect. Hey ho does it matter? No, it really doesn't , just enjoy music for what it is BUT seriously the seventies is not returning any time soon. The king is dead but long live the king.

The only snobbery I have seen so far has been from you. But perhaps I am merely inferring something from your words that was not intended. In the same vein, perhaps you are doing likewise for those you feel are being snobby?

I think most people here choose to listen to music they like, and don’t care particularly what others think. 🤷🏻‍♂️


I wouldn't say you're being snobbish, but I would say you're being presumptuous and projecting your outlook on others. I agree that many do not really want to discover new music in the forums. I also agree that there are some who want to impose a superior outlook. However, I wouldn't cast either of those nets (and there is crossover between them) too widely on here. In fact, I would accuse Barney of falling under both nets, by the way. I held my tongue before when he was here, but I can speak freely now.
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^ Back at the moment, I did start visiting the site, and then the Forum, to find new music... but for me new music was just music I didn't yet know and wanted to find, mostly, it was 70's music... or prog metal. I do have found some other music, too, but still most of the best is from the classic 70's era, or that prog metal from the 90's and 00's.
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Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

^ Back at the moment, I did start visiting the site, and then the Forum, to find new music... but for me new music was just music I didn't yet know and wanted to find, mostly, it was 70's music... or prog metal. I do have found some other music, too, but still most of the best is from the classic 70's era, or that prog metal from the 90's and 00's.

This is my history, too. I can’t remember the last time I used PA to deliberately find new music, but it was some years ago. I still sometimes accidentally come across something new here, but it’s rare. PA opened the door to me to a lot of new music, but once the door was opened, I didn’t really need to return to PA to find my next steps.

And, as with Dellinger, the new music I found initially from PA was just music that I didn’t know yet. A lot of it was from the ‘70s. I think the only snobbery richardh is guilty of (since I accused him of such a couple of posts up), is due to knowing the music when it was released. I fully accept that those who lived through it contemporaneously will have quite different viewpoints to this who have ended up listening to it at the same time as prog from the ‘90s and ‘00s, as I did.

Thus, the snobbery is inadvertent and accidental. It’s not malicious or offensive, and I don’t find it to be. It’s the kind of snobbery I recognise in my parents. I definitely don’t think I am any better for listening to enjoying all manner of music, and wanting to explore it in all its forms. If I did, it would be just as snobby as those who are content to stay in the ‘70s, or who listen to all music but hold the thought that nothing is as good or as new as it was in the ‘70s.

The important thing is to listen to what you enjoy, how you enjoy it. There’s no right way to do that, except what it right for you.

So for that hypothetical question that was posed in a poll, I would be choosing to listen to music only from the ‘90s and beyond, and I imagine richardh would be choosing to listen to music only up until the ‘90s. And we would both be right in what we chose.

If anything, sometimes I wish I didn’t love exploring music as much as I did. I wish I could set a cut-off point, and decide I wasn’t going to listen to anything after 1979 (for example). I would still be spending a fortune, and still have all manner of music to explore - but it would not be anywhere near as large a playing field as I’m presently on....
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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I don't want music that I like; I want music that is new to me. sometimes I like it at first listening, sometimes it needs repeated listening to be liked, and sometimes it will not be liked ever. but that's fine with me. I want to expand my mind, and for that I have to go into uncharted territory. I will check out any genre of music. but after repeated forays into a certain genre without satisfying results I will no longer explore it
 
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Points: 41336 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2021 at 03:14
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I don't want music that I like; I want music that is new to me. sometimes I like it at first listening, sometimes it needs repeated listening to be liked, and sometimes it will not be liked ever. but that's fine with me. I want to expand my mind, and for that I have to go into uncharted territory. I will check out any genre of music. but after repeated forays into a certain genre without satisfying results I will no longer explore it
 
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I agree, I want something new sometimes, but I also like to hear good music from genres I'm already familiar with. And I'm not easy to please, I'm picky a lot of times. LOL
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Points: 4594 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2021 at 03:57
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I don't want music that I like; I want music that is new to me. sometimes I like it at first listening, sometimes it needs repeated listening to be liked, and sometimes it will not be liked ever. but that's fine with me. I want to expand my mind, and for that I have to go into uncharted territory. I will check out any genre of music. but after repeated forays into a certain genre without satisfying results I will no longer explore it
 
THIS ↑ 

I agree, I want something new sometimes, but I also like to hear good music from genres I'm already familiar with. And I'm not easy to please, I'm picky a lot of times. LOL
 
Generally speaking, I'm not interested in having many versions of what is more-or-less the same music... not even if it's music that I love. Thus, I rarely have more than one or two albums from the one group. And even when I do have several albums from the one group, that group's music is usually quite varied. But that doesn't mean that I accept into my heart all the music that I come across. There still has to be something about the music that resonates with me. But if the music doesn't appeal to me, then I don't care in the slightest.
 
 
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
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Points: 41336 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2021 at 04:07
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I don't want music that I like; I want music that is new to me. sometimes I like it at first listening, sometimes it needs repeated listening to be liked, and sometimes it will not be liked ever. but that's fine with me. I want to expand my mind, and for that I have to go into uncharted territory. I will check out any genre of music. but after repeated forays into a certain genre without satisfying results I will no longer explore it
 
THIS ↑ 

I agree, I want something new sometimes, but I also like to hear good music from genres I'm already familiar with. And I'm not easy to please, I'm picky a lot of times. LOL
 
Generally speaking, I'm not interested in having many versions of what is more-or-less the same music... not even if it's music that I love. Thus, I rarely have more than one or two albums from the one group. And even when I do have several albums from the one group, that group's music is usually quite varied. But that doesn't mean that I accept into my heart all the music that I come across. There still has to be something about the music that resonates with me. But if the music doesn't appeal to me, then I don't care in the slightest.
 
 

Obviously music needs to resonate with me. I used the word "genre" there because even within the same genre, there are bands that sound different. There is plenty to choose from. 
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