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What do you guys think of "The Final Cut"

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    Posted: June 09 2021 at 19:54
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:


What TFC really misses is some Richard Wright, otherwise it would have been a great Floyd album.
But if you start from Southampton Dock until the title track, that's a true Pink Floyd epic.
 


Yup, and The Wall also suffers to an extent from what I term 'lack of Rick' - his keyboards have always been an integral part of the classic Floydian sound, probably as much so as DG's guitar (not to mention the Waters-Mason rhythm section underpinning everything).



Exactly what I think about those two albums too. I guess AMLoR actually suffers the same fate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2021 at 11:35
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

... but without Gilmour and Mason?
Yes, because the expectations would have been less. And Gilmour and Mason could have appeared as "guests",  which would have gone over better than having those two emasculated on the TFC as a Floyd album.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2021 at 10:29
... but without Gilmour and Mason?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2021 at 10:23
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

I do like TFC, tho when recently listened to it for the first time in a while it did strike me how much it is practically a Roger solo album in all but name.
I may be wrong, but if TFC was released as a Waters solo album it would have been better received. Perhaps even hailed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2021 at 10:16
I do like TFC, tho when recently listened to it for the first time in a while it did strike me how much it is practically a Roger solo album in all but name.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2021 at 09:59
Pros and Cons could have been a good PF album if Gilmour was involved and had more input, and Wright was still on board. But they weren't so it's not. Same deal with the Final Cut.

Edited by SteveG - June 09 2021 at 09:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 10:26
^'Pros and Cons' is the one Waters album I cannot make head or tale of - for me it falls into the category of 'is it an under appreciated work of obscure genius, or is it pretentious tripe?'.  Radio KAOS and the stuff he did for 'When the Wind Blows' are a massive improvement (IMO), and Amused to Death probably his best solo work by far. His most recent album tho sounded to me like a box ticking exercise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 10:14
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

What TFC really misses is some Richard Wright, otherwise it would have been a great Floyd album.
But if you start from Southampton Dock until the title track, that's a true Pink Floyd epic.
 


Yup, and The Wall also suffers to an extent from what I term 'lack of Rick' - his keyboards have always been an integral part of the classic Floydian sound, probably as much so as DG's guitar (not to mention the Waters-Mason rhythm section underpinning everything).
It's clear that they were more than the sum of the parts. Years ago I went to a gig of Australian Pink Floyd and they opened it with "Learning To Fly". At the end of the song a friend and I had the same reaction: better than the studio version or any live version played by the true Pink Floyd!
The reason? The bassist played it as Waters would have probably done if he were in the band. 

Same for another cover band: Pink Floyd Legend playing The Final Cut (the whole album) with a Wright-oriented keyboardist. I'm sure that even The Pros and Cons of Hitch-Hiking would have sounded much better with Gilmour, Mason and Wright onboard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 07:36
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

What TFC really misses is some Richard Wright, otherwise it would have been a great Floyd album.
But if you start from Southampton Dock until the title track, that's a true Pink Floyd epic.
 


Yup, and The Wall also suffers to an extent from what I term 'lack of Rick' - his keyboards have always been an integral part of the classic Floydian sound, probably as much so as DG's guitar (not to mention the Waters-Mason rhythm section underpinning everything).


Edited by Progishness - June 08 2021 at 07:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 07:29
What TFC really misses is some Richard Wright, otherwise it would have been a great Floyd album.
But if you start from Southampton Dock until the title track, that's a true Pink Floyd epic.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheLionOfPrague Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2021 at 19:26
It's a great album. The Gunner's Dream, The Fletcher Memorial Home and the title track are fantastic, as good as some of their best material. 

I prefer The Division Bell when it comes to late Floyd though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2021 at 20:47
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

For me, that Waters latest album sounds like second rate uninspired Floyd, clicking his boxes by the numbers...


That was actually my impression when the singles came out prior to the album - first Deja Vu, and then Smell the Roses. They sounded lifeless to me, and I wasn't even going to bother listening to the album, but after being out for a month or two, I figured it'd give it a quick listen. And I was really surprised by how good it was. I think Waters made a mistake - Picture That should have been the first single released. The video for The Last Refugee is quite moving, so that should've been the second single.

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

As far as Rattle that Lock... all of those songs are beautiful and enjoyable as far as I'm concerned, while many other albums by any of them might have a greater amount of songs that I don't care about. As far as On an Island, I do consider, in theory, that it's a better album... as a whole, not as a collection of songs, but many of those songs don't stand so well by themselves, and the album is a bit too mellow, so you must be in a mood to appreciate it.

What I love about On an Island are those first two songs, The Blue and the title track. Those are so good, that it hardly matters to me that the rest isn't up to that level. (As for the rest, I really only listen to Smile and Where We Start from time to time.) I guess I've set my standards much lower, because if there's one or two great songs, then I'm happy LOL (But that Waters album holds up as a complete album experience, which is why I rate it so high.) 

I'll try again with Rattle That Lock, but I've just not been able to like it. Everything about it is so un-Floyd like, from the tunes to the production. I guess that was his intention. (I really dislike the production.) I actually prefer the new song he released last year. Did you hear it, by the way? It's almost a cross between the two albums:






Perhaps we will just not agree. That last Gilmour song did nothing for me... though I might just as well listen to it again. However, at least I do agree that the first songs from On an Island are the best there (though I also like Take a Breath and This Heaven from it very well)... and once again, all of them are better on their live versions. And talking about best songs, for me the one on Rattle that Lock that stands out is In Any Tongue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tdfloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2021 at 19:44

The Final Cut is a very good album.  Its dark, without any light, its depressing but tells the story that Waters wanted to tell.  The production is stellar, and I really like the sparse orchestrations.  Its definitely related to The Wall, but it doesn't have those great rock songs.  An acquired taste for some, but I always liked it very much.  It is step below the best of PF but it definitely works for me. 

The album for me that is overrated is Amused to Death.  Again, Waters had a lot to say, but by that time, the Waters formula was wearing thin on me.  The Ballad of Bill Hubbard gets me every time and What God Wants Part 3 is the best track here.  But its the reusing of the same idea multiple times that drags this album down a bit for me.  And I'm in the camp that really likes Waters last album.  His best solo in my book.




Edited by tdfloyd - May 09 2021 at 19:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jude111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2021 at 08:56
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

For me, that Waters latest album sounds like second rate uninspired Floyd, clicking his boxes by the numbers...

That was actually my impression when the singles came out prior to the album - first Deja Vu, and then Smell the Roses. They sounded lifeless to me, and I wasn't even going to bother listening to the album, but after being out for a month or two, I figured it'd give it a quick listen. And I was really surprised by how good it was. I think Waters made a mistake - Picture That should have been the first single released. The video for The Last Refugee is quite moving, so that should've been the second single.

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

As far as Rattle that Lock... all of those songs are beautiful and enjoyable as far as I'm concerned, while many other albums by any of them might have a greater amount of songs that I don't care about. As far as On an Island, I do consider, in theory, that it's a better album... as a whole, not as a collection of songs, but many of those songs don't stand so well by themselves, and the album is a bit too mellow, so you must be in a mood to appreciate it.

What I love about On an Island are those first two songs, The Blue and the title track. Those are so good, that it hardly matters to me that the rest isn't up to that level. (As for the rest, I really only listen to Smile and Where We Start from time to time.) I guess I've set my standards much lower, because if there's one or two great songs, then I'm happy LOL (But that Waters album holds up as a complete album experience, which is why I rate it so high.) 

I'll try again with Rattle That Lock, but I've just not been able to like it. Everything about it is so un-Floyd like, from the tunes to the production. I guess that was his intention. (I really dislike the production.) I actually prefer the new song he released last year. Did you hear it, by the way? It's almost a cross between the two albums:



Edited by jude111 - May 08 2021 at 09:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2021 at 00:07
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

I have not really understood the love the last Waters album has got. It certainly has some Floyd elements... but it sounds like a stripped down Floyd album, taking out the instrumental sections, and it's a perfect way to show how the rest of the band would come in and make Roger's ideas and songs complete. It's like we got a second rate Sheep, a second rate Have a Cigar, and so on. As far as I'm concerned, I liked Rattle that Lock from Gilmour much better (overall, my favourite Gilmour album, actually).


That surprises me that you don't like Waters' last album; I thought you'd have loved it.

On the other hand, I can't even listen to Rattle That Lock. That one was a massive disapointment to me, especially after On an Island was so excellent. I figured Floyd's members didn't have anything left in the tank, until I was greatly surprised by Waters' album. I just didn't expect such a brilliant return to form from Waters. I'm hoping for another album from him and Radiohead producer Nigel Godrich.




For me, that Waters latest album sounds like second rate uninspired Floyd, clicking his boxes by the numbers... as far as his contributions to the band are. But just because of that, it misses the presence of David and Rick even more. As far as Rattle that Lock, yeah, I know it might not have the brilliance and spark and novelty thing other albums from any Floyd guy might have, it's just a collection of songs not trying to go by old glories nor anything... but all of those songs are beautiful and enjoyable as far as I'm concerned, while many other albums by any of them might have a greater amount of songs that I don't care about. As far as On an Island, I do consider, in theory, that it's a better album... as a whole, not as a collection of songs, but many of those songs don't stand so well by themselves, and the album is a bit too mellow, so you must be in a mood to apreciate it. Also, I like it so much better live, it just comes to a brighter life (and the addition of Wright on all the songs, as well as the Pink Floyd backing band from their last tour, actually makes it seem like a lost Floyd album). By the way, having played more (or all) of Waters last album live might have helped it a good deal; one of my favourites on the album is Picture That... but the live version just brings it to higher point, filling the sounds that were missing on the studio album... and having the rest of the songs played that way could very easily have made for a much better listening experience.

Edited by Dellinger - May 08 2021 at 00:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2021 at 12:49
The production on this album is... stellar !! Shocked Way ahead of its time in terms of recording quality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jude111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2021 at 10:33
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

I have not really understood the love the last Waters album has got. It certainly has some Floyd elements... but it sounds like a stripped down Floyd album, taking out the instrumental sections, and it's a perfect way to show how the rest of the band would come in and make Roger's ideas and songs complete. It's like we got a second rate Sheep, a second rate Have a Cigar, and so on. As far as I'm concerned, I liked Rattle that Lock from Gilmour much better (overall, my favourite Gilmour album, actually).

That surprises me that you don't like Waters' last album; I thought you'd have loved it.

On the other hand, I can't even listen to Rattle That Lock. That one was a massive disapointment to me, especially after On an Island was so excellent. I figured Floyd's members didn't have anything left in the tank, until I was greatly surprised by Waters' album. I just didn't expect such a brilliant return to form from Waters. I'm hoping for another album from him and Radiohead producer Nigel Godrich.


Edited by jude111 - May 06 2021 at 10:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2021 at 20:01
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

I was really into Floyd when it came out, and I was initially quite disappointed. But I did grow to love it after a few years. I understand it's not most people's cup of tea. Curiously, when Marillion's Brave came out, I heard it as a continuation of that sound, so it would seem to have a bit of an influence.

On the other hand, I never got the love for Amused to Death, while I thought Is This the Life We Really Want to be the best Floyd-related album since The Wall. I guess on all these counts I'm in the minority.


Not on all counts. I agree with Is This The Life...? being the best Floyd-related album since The Wall. 👍🏻



I have not really understood the love the last Waters album has got. It certainly has some Floyd elements... but it sounds like a stripped down Floyd album, taking out the instrumental sections, and it's a perfect way to show how the rest of the band would come in and make Roger's ideas and songs complete. It's like we got a second rate Sheep, a second rate Have a Cigar, and so on. As far as I'm concerned, I liked Rattle that Lock from Gilmour much better (overall, my favourite Gilmour album, actually).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2021 at 19:55
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

^ Yeah, I think that was one of Gilmour's complaints about the album. He thought that if the songs weren't enough to be on The Wall, then why should be good enough for the new album. However, as far as I'm concerned, there are a few songs that would have been a great addition on The Wall album.


Hi,

Some of the stuff that was in that album was actually a part of the original WALL which had about 15 minutes taken out ... presumably to make sure that all of it could fit into 2 albums!

If you take the story material from that album, you will find that they fit into the story of the original ... and Roger never really explained that, and I do not think he will ... he knows that the story got screwed up, but he's not going to say that the record company told them they had to make sure it fit 2 albums!

There is just too much ... hidden that we can not see!


I actually have an ITunes list with my favourite songs from The Final Cut mixed into The Wall (my favourites from it), and they indeed fit perfectly together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2021 at 09:23
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

I was really into Floyd when it came out, and I was initially quite disappointed. But I did grow to love it after a few years. I understand it's not most people's cup of tea. Curiously, when Marillion's Brave came out, I heard it as a continuation of that sound, so it would seem to have a bit of an influence.

On the other hand, I never got the love for Amused to Death, while I thought Is This the Life We Really Want to be the best Floyd-related album since The Wall. I guess on all these counts I'm in the minority.

Not on all counts. I agree with Is This The Life...? being the best Floyd-related album since The Wall. 👍🏻

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