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How accurate is this prog family tree?

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A Crimson Mellotron View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Crimson Mellotron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How accurate is this prog family tree?
    Posted: April 19 2021 at 07:52
This is a sort of a 'family tree' of progressive rock that spans from the 1970s to the 2010s; I found that image some years ago somewhere on the net. There are some missing sub-genres and movements but generally it seems complete enough for the people that would be interested to explore the surface and maybe sub-surface levels of prog.
What do you think about this image? Would you add/remove/replace something? Do you agree with the labels and the bands that are their representatives? I am curious to see what comments will come up. Smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 08:27
It seems to cover Crossover, Metal, and Symphonic. It seems to lack Jazz and Avant.
 
 


Edited by I prophesy disaster - April 19 2021 at 08:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 08:40
I noticed there's no Prog-Folk sub-genre on the Family Tree, which leaves Jethro Tull out of place under Symphonic Prog. Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 08:52
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

It seems to cover Crossover, Metal, and Symphonic. It seems to lack Jazz and Avant.
That's what I felt when I saw it. It's nice though, and by all means, it's almost impossible to come up with a tree like this and not to miss something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Argo2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 08:54
If you go by the Prog Archives categories that are a lot of discrepancies. Most stuff on this chart seem to be listed under the umbrella of symphonic prog. Also, as stated,  a lot of sub generas are left out altogether. 
It's not bad for a basic overview but I suspect the Prog Archive police are going to have a field day with this! Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 09:07
It’s an attempt to gain some kind of overview/perspective on music history via tags and genres that a) did not exist at the time and b) weren’t important.
Today we have a tendency to identify with the tags. We’re symph prog/prog folk/Krautrock/Neo prog/avant fans and oftentimes even mock X band for not being X enough or conversely spend hours upon hours discussing what tag fits the best.
If we were to make a prog rock tree in a convincing way, we need to approach this with a far bigger net..that encompasses more of the globe and more of the stuff that doesn’t align perfectly with what most folks think of as being the classic prog rock sound. A tree like that would also be able to embrace The Soft Machine, Frank Zappa, Procul Harum, Samla Mammas Manna, Amon Düül ll, Magma, The Moody Blues, Colosseum and Santana....fx. There are so many more that belong on there, because prog rock, like so many other music genres, didn’t somehow magically appear at the fripp of the switch ‘The Court of the Crimson King has been released and we now have prog rock Ladies and gentlemen!’
Nahh it was a lust for experimentation that snuck into all facets of the arts and you could hear it in pop, jazz, folk and rock music alike. Music got psychedelic and weird - grew strange off-kilter beats and started mixing styles together that hadn’t been tried before.
A prog rock tree, for my money at least, somehow needs to fathom all of this so as it inevitably ends up EPIC, longwinded and imaginative...just like the very music it tries to illustrate.

Edith: Hah! I think I lost the plot mid-post and just went with it
In short? The tree is lacking. It leaves out several important branches and overlooks a fair few acts that were instrumental in the creation of pork rawk.

Edited by Guldbamsen - April 19 2021 at 09:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 09:17
I might be missing something but I don't see any mention of the Canterbury Scene.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Crimson Mellotron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 09:20
I also find it half-complete. As you have noticed, jazz is left out somewhere, prog folk also, progressive electronic and Canterbury seem not to exist in this tree, but generally they have covered some of the most obvious acts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 09:24
Yes had nothing to do with the development of Jethro Tull. So that's plainly inane. And starting a "Progressive Rock Family Tree" at 1970 is even dumber and misinformed. Overall, the tree is a clusterf*ck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 09:28
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Yes had nothing to do with the development of Jethro Tull. So that's plainly inane. And starting a "Progressive Rock Family Tree" at 1970 is even dumber and misinformed. Overall, the tree is a clusterf*ck.


Agreed it probably needs to start somewhere in the mid 60's, and the chart generally does seem to gloss over the 1970's, arguably the most important decade in the genre's history & development.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 11:34
no prog folk immediately diminishes the whole thing.  I could understand someone leaving it out 20 years ago but re-appraisal has occurred and valued its contribution.  Even the Rolling stone 50th greatest prog rock albums list acknowledged this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 11:52
No krautrock, zeuhl or progressive electronic?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 12:02
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Yes had nothing to do with the development of Jethro Tull. So that's plainly inane. And starting a "Progressive Rock Family Tree" at 1970 is even dumber and misinformed. Overall, the tree is a clusterf*ck.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 12:22
Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

No krautrock, zeuhl or progressive electronic?


well at leas they avoidedthe bogus Ecclectic and Crossover


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 12:34
I suppose 'eclectic' is the odds and sods department, either stuff that doesn't quite fit anywhere else, or maybe artists no-one can agree on which other sub-genre they belong to, whilst definitely being prog?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 12:37
it seems to come from a German music magazine. Yet, there's no mention of krautrock. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 12:51
As well as the aforementioned issues with missing genres, when put against the family tree of just three prog acts, it does seem more than a little lacking.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 13:03
My guess is that it was written by someone who was born after 1990. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 13:07
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

As well as the aforementioned issues with missing genres, when put against the family tree of just three prog acts, it does seem more than a little lacking.


Now that's the kind of prog family tree I like, with more branches than the Major Oak in Sherwood Forest. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 13:19
For those of you who don't read German, the subtitle has the word "Auszug" meaning that it's just a part of a whole thing that we don't see. It may have been published as the most essential part (we don't know that I guess), but anyway, it isn't just not claiming that it's complete, it acknowledges explicitly that it's incomplete and that there's more to it elsewhere. So much for criticising that it doesn't have XXX.


Edited by Lewian - April 19 2021 at 13:21
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