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How accurate is this prog family tree?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 13:28
Maybe this one makes a bit more sense.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz7bvzIb8Y1qzbv4zo1_1280.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Crimson Mellotron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 13:29
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

As well as the aforementioned issues with missing genres, when put against the family tree of just three prog acts, it does seem more than a little lacking.


Now this is extreme!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Crimson Mellotron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 13:30
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

For those of you who don't read German, the subtitle has the word "Auszug" meaning that it's just a part of a whole thing that we don't see. It may have been published as the most essential part (we don't know that I guess), but anyway, it isn't just not claiming that it's complete, it acknowledges explicitly that it's incomplete and that there's more to it elsewhere. So much for criticising that it doesn't have XXX.
That is very good to know... but we couldn't possibly tell it is incomplete. Tongue
Some of the answers here gave me an idea for another thread related to prog rock history... I will think about it, formulate it and maybe post.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 13:33
Pete Frame's music family tree books are awesome! I had one back in the day.

For the tree in question it's not bad. You can't include every genre found on PA and I don't consider jazz rock/fusion prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 13:37
I remember Pete Frame's rock family trees, but don't remember the name of the music publication they used to turn up in on a semi-regular basis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 13:47
Defining 'continental prog' as a genre is a bit arrogant imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 13:58
Exactly, as Italian Prog and Krautrock definitely inhabit their own distinct spaces.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 14:05
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

I remember Pete Frame's rock family trees, but don't remember the name of the music publication they used to turn up in on a semi-regular basis.

They were in Sounds originally, and then moved onto Kerrang.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 14:07
Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

Defining 'continental prog' as a genre is a bit arrogant imo.
Not really. A "continental breakfast" is relatively cheap with a limited menu. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 14:10
Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

Defining 'continental prog' as a genre is a bit arrogant imo.

now which continent is it? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 14:13
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Exactly, as Italian Prog and Krautrock definitely inhabit their own distinct spaces.

In what way? Geographically or musically?

Does Italian heavy prog sound distinctively Italian? Ditto Italian folk prog?

What about our German friends? Is there something about Krautrock which is so distinctive that it is set utterly apart from, say, some of the more British avant stuff being produced at the same time?

This has got me in a wee bit of trouble in the past, but I am old enough to remember this argument raging over the years. Did we distinguish these sub-genres because of the nationality of the participants, or because they were so musically unique and the nationality aided this? What if a British band were to come along and record an album which sounded like, say, PFM at their height? Would that be RPI? We do have this problem with Canterbury Scene, which was so called because of a group of musicians who got together and created music and a feel in, erm, Canterbury, and yet we allow bands from, say, deepest Glasgow who make an album sounding like a scene album into that sub-genre, which is so historically incorrect it is painful.

I say this not to be controversial, but to highlight an ongoing debate which will, frankly, never be satisfactorily resolved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 14:18
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

I remember Pete Frame's rock family trees, but don't remember the name of the music publication they used to turn up in on a semi-regular basis.

They were in Sounds originally, and then moved onto Kerrang.


Ah yes, I used to buy Sounds every week back in the early 70's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 14:26
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

I remember Pete Frame's rock family trees, but don't remember the name of the music publication they used to turn up in on a semi-regular basis.

They were in Sounds originally, and then moved onto Kerrang.


Ah yes, I used to buy Sounds every week back in the early 70's.

I used to love Sounds. Very happy memories of those bizarre and pointless arguments about the death of punk and the rise of Oi Oi, led, of course, by that paragon of British quality journalism. Garry Bushell.

Happy days!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 14:26
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

For those of you who don't read German, the subtitle has the word "Auszug" meaning that it's just a part of a whole thing that we don't see. It may have been published as the most essential part (we don't know that I guess), but anyway, it isn't just not claiming that it's complete, it acknowledges explicitly that it's incomplete and that there's more to it elsewhere. So much for criticising that it doesn't have XXX.

That's all good and well but wouldn't a German rock magazine put krautrock prominently first on the list. That is what happens when people have no sense of nationalism.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 15:49
I guess there are a few DNA mismatches to be found.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 17:11
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

I remember Pete Frame's rock family trees, but don't remember the name of the music publication they used to turn up in on a semi-regular basis.


They were in Sounds originally, and then moved onto Kerrang.


Ah yes, I used to buy Sounds every week back in the early 70's.


I used to love Sounds. Very happy memories of those bizarre and pointless arguments about the death of punk and the rise of Oi Oi, led, of course, by that paragon of British quality journalism. Garry Bushell.

Happy days!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 19:20
Bottom line is if it's not done by Pete Frame it's probably garbage. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 19:23
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

I remember Pete Frame's rock family trees, but don't remember the name of the music publication they used to turn up in on a semi-regular basis.

I think maybe the Harmony Encyclopedia of Rock. I discovered some prog bands that way. I think his family trees showed up in other places though. The one at the top of this page I think is from the progressive rock files book by Jerry Lucky. However, I don't think that one was done by Pete Frame(I could be wrong though). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2021 at 20:28
As incomplete as it is, I'm still impressed with the number of bands listed, as well as listing certain bands more than once if they cross into other styles, or exist in multiple time periods.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2021 at 00:17
Interestingly, most of the folks once shared a flat in London! 
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