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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 05:25
^ I'm surprised he thought the section containing the ocean sounds were recorded sounds and not musical instruments played by the band.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 06:20
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers!

we saw the video yesterday. he was absolutely fascinated

Hi,

I had been hoping that he would do a few things more challenging than stuff that is more often than not rock music oriented and less musically inclined, as this piece is and was.

Not to say that there is anything wrong in rock music, though, since it is very obvious that it has expanded the palate of all music in just a few short years, instead of the hundreds in music history! But for Doug, listening to Peter Hammill I'm not sure he realizes how different and interpretive (an actor! where do they go after the show?) his work is ... it is all about the lyrics and where they take you ... or Peter ... and this is vastly different than music that supposedly tells you that this is about this or that ... in this case, his lyrics direct the music DIRECTLY, and that is something that not many bands do or can do. You can probably count someone like Mick or DB as folks to whom the lyric content DROVE THE MUSIC, although both of those still had the riffs and the rock music generic touches to make it ear candy!

And this different "style" is something that causes a lot of folks to not like PH or VdGG because there are so many jumps and differences that have to do with the story within the lyrics, and nothing else, and how can these moments be interpreted in their instruments, instead of a steady beat and a bland passage, supposedly telling you that it is about this and that via some singing or lyrics. Vast difference in how something is designed and put together.

I think DD will have issues with some of the bigger and better pieces in the true "progressive" side of things that is totally about expression, and not about the "song" ... since at times, the lyrics seem strange and not to the point, which I don't find weird at all ... sort of like listening to Bernina, or Godbluff or Still Life ... they just flow on their own.

Interesting that he said he didn't hear a guitar ... and he should have mentioned that again, and discussed it, because rock music "dictates" that a guitar is mandatory, and for PROGRESSIVE music, there is NO SUCH THING AS A SPECIFIC INSTRUMENT NEEDED FOR THIS OR THAT (or for that f-----g solo!) ... and this is where the instruments of this and that make this kind of material not seem right ... every listener that we meet is expecting bass, drums, guitar, keyboards and singer ... and that tells you that the definition is NOT ABOUT THE MUSIC at all, but about a conventional/commercial ideal to get you to buy it!

When/if one can get past PH/VdGG, you will, then, start finding real music in many places, and let me tell you that all of them are not commercial and neither are they conventional! I am not sure that the Daily Doug has gotten his ears around that yet!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 10:20
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers!



Yea saw this one last night......He's awesome! But expected when you have such a deep understanding of music composition, creation and lyrical themes, holding a doctorate in music helps too!! 

I suspected he would enjoy the composition and especially the lyrics and theme, not sure he will listen to this type of pc for the simple enjoyment of music. I envision Doug using something like this as a teaching pc with students, but not much more since it is really not accessible music. It's the only VdGG album I own on vinyl, one I enjoy very much.

He missed mentioning that RFripp was guest guitarist on this album, I don't think he was reading from the album liner notes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 11:53
Do any of these experts ever find fault with the music that they are reacting to? I mean even the 2 ghetto rappers on YouTube are ecstatic to listen to "My Best Friend's Girl" by the Cars! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 12:11
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Do any of these experts ever find fault with the music that they are reacting to? I mean even the 2 ghetto rappers on YouTube are ecstatic to listen to "My Best Friend's Girl" by the Cars! LOL

That happens often enough. Just watch Justjp's reaction to "The Last Seven Minutes" by Magma (he even categorized it as "jazz-rock)" or "Assault and Battery/The Golden Void" by Hawkwind. Here the links:

"The last Seven Minutes":



"Assault and Battery/The Golden Void":






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 13:55
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Do any of these experts ever find fault with the music that they are reacting to? I mean even the 2 ghetto rappers on YouTube are ecstatic to listen to "My Best Friend's Girl" by the Cars! LOL

Wow dude, white people can't say that and I think your white Steve LOL I can barely get away with it having poo-poo brown colored skin.

They are not fans of DT, I think they reacted to only Metropolis Part 1 and Pull Me Under or may have been As I Am, which I think they liked better due to the metalness of it.

Also I don't think either of them are actual rappers...don't have to be from the ghetto to rap either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 14:44
5 pages on idiotic reaction videos...? Really..?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 15:17
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

5 pages on idiotic reaction videos...? Really..?
Ermm

Better than any page on the fab four......Clap. And the Daily Doug is really more on musical theory rather than simply a reaction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 15:52
Daily Doug and Critical Reactions are the only reaction videos I can watch without cringing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 16:06
I'd hardly call Doug's reaction videos idiotic.  I watched the one earlier on "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" and thoroughly appreciated it, and I appreciate his approach (I love A Plague)..  He has a lot more to say from a music theory perspective than the vast majority of reviews.   It made me think of some of the most negative reviews on Pawn Hearts in PA, a divisive album, and how I wish Doug could maybe help those people to hear the music from a different perspective.  I'd like to listen some of his on music I have not appreciated.  I could not do what he does, at least not now as I have more difficulty retaining information and am altogether slower, even if I tried to really study music.  I wish Doug were a member of our forum, there are many things I'd like to ask him from an epistemological and ontological perspective when it comes to music analyses,  criticism and judgments of quality especially when one does not know the intent of the artist, and I'm interested in ethical considerations when it comes to criticism.  Not knowing my music theory very well limits how I can talk about music, unfortunately, and 15 years active at this music forum has hardly made me an expert.  Watching his videos I do think I'll become more versed in theory and hopefully be able to appreciate certain music at a deeper level of understanding.  Of course one can appreciate music and find it interesting without liking it.  I like how he describes the music, which I think the best reviewers are good at (even if not going into such detail), and I love various reviewers who focus more on describing their experience with the music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 16:30
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Do any of these experts ever find fault with the music that they are reacting to? I mean even the 2 ghetto rappers on YouTube are ecstatic to listen to "My Best Friend's Girl" by the Cars! LOL


Wow dude, white people can't say that and I think your white Steve LOL I can barely get away with it having poo-poo brown colored skin.

They are not fans of DT, I think they reacted to only Metropolis Part 1 and Pull Me Under or may have been As I Am, which I think they liked better due to the metalness of it.

Also I don't think either of them are actual rappers...don't have to be from the ghetto to rap either.
Of course you can't get away with it Jose. You don't have enough street cred homie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 16:33
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I'd hardly call Doug's reaction videos idiotic.  I watched the one earlier on "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" and thoroughly appreciated it, and I appreciate his approach (I love A Plague)..  He has a lot more to say from a music theory perspective than the vast majority of reviews.   It made me think of some of the most negative reviews on Pawn Hearts in PA, a divisive album, and how I wish Doug could maybe help those people to hear the music from a different perspective.  I'd like to listen some of his on music I have not appreciated.  I could not do what he does, at least not now as I have more difficulty retaining information and am altogether slower, even if I tried to really study music.  I wish Doug were a member of our forum, there are many things I'd like to ask him from an epistemological and ontological perspective when it comes to music analyses,  criticism and judgments of quality especially when one does not know the intent of the artist, and I'm interested in ethical considerations when it comes to criticism.  Not knowing my music theory very well limits how I can talk about music, unfortunately, and 15 years active at this music forum has hardly made me an expert.  Watching his videos I do think I'll become more versed in theory and hopefully be able to appreciate certain music at a deeper level of understanding.  Of course one can appreciate music and find it interesting without liking it.  I like how he describes the music, which I think the best reviewers are good at (even if not going into such detail), and I love various reviewers who focus more on describing their experience with the music.

That's what I really like about his channel. I mentioned earlier, it actually made me think again about reading music as he was doing a reaction of Tarkus while following along with a piano transcription, he did same with Firth Of Fifth. It sparked something in my brain to go back to elementary school when I played clarinet in orchestra for 3 years, trying to read music again......Will I go further to try and teach myself more, maybe...Ermm

But I was starting to relate to a lot of stuff he was saying and again brought back some memories of music teachers I had in school.........I think it's cool if you can follow along and semi-read music.

You are spot on as what he is doing is giving me some different perspective on what to hear for especially in the lower registers that is the meat and bones of music. And I like that he is really into lyrics and themes, for the most part he will get the jist of a pc and understand what the artist was trying to convey and then he will relate that to the music and those moments that exude emotion. The ending of Firth Of Fifth where he describes the piano ending as being the 'river of constant change' as Tony Banks plays alternating keys....Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 16:35
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Do any of these experts ever find fault with the music that they are reacting to? I mean even the 2 ghetto rappers on YouTube are ecstatic to listen to "My Best Friend's Girl" by the Cars! LOL


Wow dude, white people can't say that and I think your white Steve LOL I can barely get away with it having poo-poo brown colored skin.

They are not fans of DT, I think they reacted to only Metropolis Part 1 and Pull Me Under or may have been As I Am, which I think they liked better due to the metalness of it.

Also I don't think either of them are actual rappers...don't have to be from the ghetto to rap either.
Of course you can't get away with it Jose. You don't have enough street cred homie.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 17:06
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I'd hardly call Doug's reaction videos idiotic.  I watched the one earlier on "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" and thoroughly appreciated it, and I appreciate his approach (I love A Plague)..  He has a lot more to say from a music theory perspective than the vast majority of reviews.   It made me think of some of the most negative reviews on Pawn Hearts in PA, a divisive album, and how I wish Doug could maybe help those people to hear the music from a different perspective.  I'd like to listen some of his on music I have not appreciated.  I could not do what he does, at least not now as I have more difficulty retaining information and am altogether slower, even if I tried to really study music.  I wish Doug were a member of our forum, there are many things I'd like to ask him from an epistemological and ontological perspective when it comes to music analyses,  criticism and judgments of quality especially when one does not know the intent of the artist, and I'm interested in ethical considerations when it comes to criticism.  Not knowing my music theory very well limits how I can talk about music, unfortunately, and 15 years active at this music forum has hardly made me an expert.  Watching his videos I do think I'll become more versed in theory and hopefully be able to appreciate certain music at a deeper level of understanding.  Of course one can appreciate music and find it interesting without liking it.  I like how he describes the music, which I think the best reviewers are good at (even if not going into such detail), and I love various reviewers who focus more on describing their experience with the music.

That's what I really like about his channel. I mentioned earlier, it actually made me think again about reading music as he was doing a reaction of Tarkus while following along with a piano transcription, he did same with Firth Of Fifth. It sparked something in my brain to go back to elementary school when I played clarinet in orchestra for 3 years, trying to read music again......Will I go further to try and teach myself more, maybe...Ermm

But I was starting to relate to a lot of stuff he was saying and again brought back some memories of music teachers I had in school.........I think it's cool if you can follow along and semi-read music.

You are spot on as what he is doing is giving me some different perspective on what to hear for especially in the lower registers that is the meat and bones of music. And I like that he is really into lyrics and themes, for the most part he will get the jist of a pc and understand what the artist was trying to convey and then he will relate that to the music and those moments that exude emotion. The ending of Firth Of Fifth where he describes the piano ending as being the 'river of constant change' as Tony Banks plays alternating keys....Clap

Very well said. Clap  I was in youth orchestra (trumpet), but I'm very rusty, luckily my trumpet isn't (it's brass).  I still play the piano and guitar a bit and remember how to read music, but I've had complaints about being a collab who can't easily tell the difference between lydian mode and ionian mode, LOL , nor am I good with time signatures beyond 3/4 and 4/4.  He really does me want to study and get more into music.   Just play more and compose more (I loved to compose music before, but I lacked the skill and worth ethic to play it well or transcribe it well -- I'm pretty good at humming).

 I really don't care for reaction videos generally, I do like some other topes of analyses videos (mostly in film, where I have more of a much stronger background in theory) but this is coming from someone who knows and understands music much better than I ever will.  I love that perspective he gives from someone who really knows about music and isn't just saying how it makes him feel, and he demonstrates an interest in the material.  Even if its known to me, I feel rather intrigued with him (how interested he actually is, I don't know). Whether it's his cup-of-tea doesn't really matter that much.  I would like to be able to be more objective with music, and describe it better with others too (even if I only talk about music with people at this forum).  He gives really good insights into music/ composition that could really help to bring one a much deeper appreciation.  

I can understand a lot of reaction videos  being thought of as idiotic, but Doug's, well he's so far above me that I'd be very happy to be anywhere near approaching his level of idiocy.  That said, I knew a word he didn't in that Plague video, paraffin as I recall, but we all have our strengths. LOL And it's not important to a music understanding.  And when it comes to lyrical themes, I might well have a different interpretation than Doug, and since he isn't as familiar with such music as I am, I probably would have some insights that he hasn't considered.

I so wish he would join this forum, but it's not something we would expect.  Even just in  the more general ways to appreciate, discuss and think about music without leaning on much music theory or specifics, I think a lot of us could learn from him.

By the way, I never wanted to be part of a rock band, but there's part of me that always wanted to be a film and television soundtrack composer.  And my wife was trying to convince me to make reaction videos some time ago.  A Logan reacts to PA posts and posters would be fun.LOL

On an earlier note made by Fried, I'd happily describe "The Last Seven Minutes" by Magma as jazzy funk-rock, but I am no music expert.


Edited by Logan - June 10 2021 at 17:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 17:18
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I'd hardly call Doug's reaction videos idiotic.  I watched the one earlier on "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" and thoroughly appreciated it, and I appreciate his approach (I love A Plague)..  He has a lot more to say from a music theory perspective than the vast majority of reviews.   It made me think of some of the most negative reviews on Pawn Hearts in PA, a divisive album, and how I wish Doug could maybe help those people to hear the music from a different perspective.  I'd like to listen some of his on music I have not appreciated.  I could not do what he does, at least not now as I have more difficulty retaining information and am altogether slower, even if I tried to really study music.  I wish Doug were a member of our forum, there are many things I'd like to ask him from an epistemological and ontological perspective when it comes to music analyses,  criticism and judgments of quality especially when one does not know the intent of the artist, and I'm interested in ethical considerations when it comes to criticism.  Not knowing my music theory very well limits how I can talk about music, unfortunately, and 15 years active at this music forum has hardly made me an expert.  Watching his videos I do think I'll become more versed in theory and hopefully be able to appreciate certain music at a deeper level of understanding.  Of course one can appreciate music and find it interesting without liking it.  I like how he describes the music, which I think the best reviewers are good at (even if not going into such detail), and I love various reviewers who focus more on describing their experience with the music.

That's what I really like about his channel. I mentioned earlier, it actually made me think again about reading music as he was doing a reaction of Tarkus while following along with a piano transcription, he did same with Firth Of Fifth. It sparked something in my brain to go back to elementary school when I played clarinet in orchestra for 3 years, trying to read music again......Will I go further to try and teach myself more, maybe...Ermm

But I was starting to relate to a lot of stuff he was saying and again brought back some memories of music teachers I had in school.........I think it's cool if you can follow along and semi-read music.

You are spot on as what he is doing is giving me some different perspective on what to hear for especially in the lower registers that is the meat and bones of music. And I like that he is really into lyrics and themes, for the most part he will get the jist of a pc and understand what the artist was trying to convey and then he will relate that to the music and those moments that exude emotion. The ending of Firth Of Fifth where he describes the piano ending as being the 'river of constant change' as Tony Banks plays alternating keys....Clap

Very well said. Clap  I was in youth orchestra (trumpet), but I'm very rusty, luckily my trumpet isn't (it's brass).  I still play the piano and guitar a bit and remember how to read music, but I've had complaints about being a collab who can't easily tell the difference between lydian mode and ionian mode, LOL , nor am I good with time signatures beyond 3/4 and 4/4.  He really does me want to study and get more into music.   Just play more and compose more (I loved to compose music before, but I lacked the skill and worth ethic to play it well or transcribe it well -- I'm pretty good at humming).

 I really don't care for reaction videos generally, I do like some other topes of analyses videos (mostly in film, where I have more of a much stronger background in theory) but this is coming from someone who knows and understands music much better than I ever will.  I love that perspective he gives from someone who really knows about music and isn't just saying how it makes him feel, and he demonstrates an interest in the material.  Even if its known to me, I feel rather intrigued with him (how interested he actually is, I don't know). Whether it's his cup-of-tea doesn't really matter that much.  I would like to be able to be more objective with music, and describe it better with others too (even if I only talk about music with people at this forum).  He gives really good insights into music that can really help with a much deeper appreciation.  

I can understand a lot of reaction videos  being thought of as idiotic, but Doug's, well he's so far above me that I'd be very happy to be anywhere near approaching his level of idiocy.  That said, I knew a word he didn't in that Plague video, paraffin as I recall, but we all have our strengths. LOL And it's not important to a music understanding.  And when it comes to lyrical themes, I might well have a different interpretation than Doug, and since he isn't as familiar with such music as I am, I probably would have some insights that he hasn't considered.

I so wish he would join this forum, but it's not something we would expect.  Even just in  the more general ways to appreciate, discuss and think about music without leaning on much music theory or specifics, I think a lot of us could learn from him.

By the way, I never wanted to be part of a rock band, but there's part of me that always wanted to be a film and television soundtrack composer.  And my wife was trying to convince me to make reaction videos some time ago.  A Logan reacts to PA posts and posters would be fun.LOL

On an earlier note made by Fried, I'd happily describe "The Last Seven Minutes" by Magma as jazzy funk-rock, but I am no music expert.
Would be a a solid addition if he would join and comment, for sure. I too find his giddy interest in music infectious, especially the progressive rock pcs he has reacted to.

The main take away from all these reactions is that the musicianship in the progressive rock genre is of a high/masterful level that I think both Doug and Rick Beato would attest to and the bulk of that being music that was created 40-50yrs ago.....the age when bands were really bands and recorded as a group.

The Log Reacts to PA.........LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 21:43
Yeah, you have to distinguish Doug and Rick Beato's videos from other 'amateur enthusiast' kinda videos.  Doug and Rick break down the compositions and explain what makes them great.  You can plead subjectivity and claim such analysis itself is therefore futile but at any rate, such an analytical approach to the music is more interesting than merely the emotional reactions of fanboys/fangirls as they listen through.  Doug's analysis of Firth of the fifth was particularly brilliant. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2021 at 21:57
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Do any of these experts ever find fault with the music that they are reacting to? I mean even the 2 ghetto rappers on YouTube are ecstatic to listen to "My Best Friend's Girl" by the Cars! LOL

Oh, when it happens, it's probably worse than when they are gushing silly.

Here's a rather weird reaction to Ocean Gypsy.  Albeit you have to blame whoever made that youtuber listen to the Bottomline performance of that song as you couldn't find a more soporific version of it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2021 at 06:06
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Do any of these experts ever find fault with the music that they are reacting to? I mean even the 2 ghetto rappers on YouTube are ecstatic to listen to "My Best Friend's Girl" by the Cars! LOL

Oh, when it happens, it's probably worse than when they are gushing silly.

Here's a rather weird reaction to Ocean Gypsy.  Albeit you have to blame whoever made that youtuber listen to the Bottomline performance of that song as you couldn't find a more soporific version of it.


 
In deference to this girl reviewer, who ever she is, she said that she like's 80s rock better than 70s rock, so that says a lot about her tastes. Or a lack there of. Apart from being a pedestrian take on "Ocean Gypsy", I've always found the song to be a bore with melodramatic lyrics, "made for" Renaissance classical overtones, and synth strings. Too typical, in my book. Perhaps if she "reviewed" something more accessible like "Carpet of The Sun" or "Northern Lights", that would have appealed to her 80s pop tastes. Or even "Trip To The Fair" with it's macabre lyrics.

Edited by SteveG - June 11 2021 at 06:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2021 at 07:40
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I so wish he would join this forum, but it's not something we would expect.  Even just in  the more general ways to appreciate, discuss and think about music without leaning on much music theory or specifics, I think a lot of us could learn from him.

 
I don't know if he'll join, but I did let him know this was here on the interview show he was on a few weeks ago and he asked me for a link.  So he could be lurking.

I agree that he did an excellent job on "Firth," not only from the musical aspect, including it's very clever construction as well as discussing lyrically, how it all made sense on several levels.  


"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Snicolette View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2021 at 07:41
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

The main take away from all these reactions is that the musicianship in the progressive rock genre is of a high/masterful level that I think both Doug and Rick Beato would attest to and the bulk of that being music that was created 40-50yrs ago.....the age when bands were really bands and recorded as a group.
  Hear, hear!  
"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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