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Rating and reviewing albums after just 1 day

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The Anders View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2021 at 15:26
Back in 2000 I bought Radiohead's Kid A on the exact day of release, and then listened through it 3 or 4 times on the same day, to try and make any sense of it. It took some time to really appreciate it, so I am glad I didn't attempt some sort of review back then. Had it been a more straight forward album, I might have been able to write a meaningful review.

Many groundbreaking albums get a mixed reception upon their initial release - for the very same reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2021 at 17:52
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

People on here who have 3,000 or more albums in their collection aren't going to wait until they listen to something 10 times or more. They are going to review it after one or two listens and then most likely not listen to the album again in a year (if at all). 

Hi,

Kinda hard to admit this, but I don't listen with the thoughts or ideas that I picked up from all those albums. However, the listening does take a turn, when the music you are listening to is not exactly very original, and/or immediately follows a pattern that fits pop music a lot more than it does ... progressive music. 

So yeah, there would be no reason to listen to it again, but we have to be careful here ... the minute we think that, the band throws a curve ball and it hits the ground and you struck out. But, in general, just like film (for me!!!), I don't have to see it twice to get an idea for a review, which in my case often starts doing the actual playing of the music or seeing the film. Ex: You don't have to see all of FITZCARRALDO to realize how much of it is ad-lib and total improvisation, you can immediately see the camera trying hard to keep up with KK ... and if you want to review centering on how he did this for almost all of the film, you have something to work on, but the rest of the film? You can't leave it behind.

For me, too much of the "new" progressive music is cookie cutter stuff and few bands have grabbed my ears strongly. And one of the things that bothers me is ... it all stops, so the guitar can do a solo! I'm done listening at that point, at least with attention, since the originality of the whole thing is gone ... it's now about how clever that solo is and how good it is sounding, and that's the music we are reviewing? 

Progressive, for me, was not about the solos, it was about the ability of all the musicians to come together and create something special. But hearing the "same song" over and over gets kinda ... yeah, you know!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiz_d_kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2021 at 06:56
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

When I'm writing a review (which I haven't done for a long time now), I listen to the album once all the way through and then listen to each track individually at the same time as writing an overblown review - which is usually followed by giving the album more stars than you'll see in an average episode of Stars in Their Eyes. Wink
I would say this is pretty much my approach for new albums. Once through for first impressions, then one song at a time making my notes, then a once through again listening and looking at what I wrote down to see if I feel it's truly the way I really feel. I certainly don't need 5 or 10 times through to make a reasonable assessment of it.

Yep, exactly my approach, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2021 at 07:53
If "recency bias" was a huge problem here at PA the Top 100 would be littered with 21st Century offerings. It is not. Wobbler, All Traps On Earth, Anglagard, Steven Wilson - that's about it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2021 at 11:03
It usually takes me three or four listens just to get an accurate sense for the album, even one from a favorite artist. That said, there are still those albums that immediately turn me on or off, which is usually a matter of liking it or not. A review should be more than, "I like it," or "This is garbage." When I review, which doesn't happen very often, I like to have some familiarity with the album itself as well as its place within in the artist's career if possible. I also like to be listening to the album while writing about it so I can provide some accurate detail. The most important thing for a review is that it be informed. It does not have to be technical, but the reviewer should have some knowledge of music, the artist, and the field. Again, this does not have to be exhaustive, but something is better than nothing. Geek
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2021 at 11:12
I was a reviewer on the most prominent metal webzine of Turkey for 6.5 years. I'd say one's review is shaped by whichever method/way s/he chooses. I sometimes reviewed some albums after 1 listen, sometimes it took months to mentally digest an album, as I deemed that album worthy of that. A good reader can understand, or at least sense how the reviewer assessed that album, methinks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tdfloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2021 at 13:14
One listen for most albums wouldn't do it for me.  Some I don't get right away. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" falls into that category.  I still struggle with "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" and really didn't like it a first.  I'm not saying that there are a bunch of albums that my first impression doesn't change with repeated listening, but their is a healthy amount that repeated listens unearths hidden treasures.  Like Tangerine Dream's "Zeit".  Love that album now but for the longest time (read years) I wasn't a fan. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2021 at 13:54
Originally posted by Progosopher Progosopher wrote:

It usually takes me three or four listens just to get an accurate sense for the album, even one from a favorite artist. 

... Geek

Hi,

I disagree.

It didn't take but ONE LISTEN to know that KC's first album was really special 50 years ago. It did not take but ONE LISTEN to know that YES had something special with CTTE some 50 years ago. It did not take but ONE LISTEN to know that Jethro Tull had created some outstanding pieces in TAAB and APP some 48 or 49 years ago (have to recheck now!)

Nowadays, though, very few things that are showing up do actually stand out just as huge and blow your brains to smithereens, and I don't mean that it is too loud and non-stop thrashing or equivalent, and then because it has 17 chords and 493 notes, it is thought to be "progressive". 

I don't think it matters what kind of music it is/was ... the first time you heard it, your ears went completely out of whack wondering and thinking ... wow ... I just heard something different and far out! 

I have only heard, in the past 6 months, one band whose album stood out, and it was a FINNISH (is that correct for Finland?) band, but when I listened to the previous album, it was not half as good or half as polished and defined to make it better. Almost all the rest I have hear, and this includes a few Japanese groups, which I make a point of listening to everyone of them that DamoX posts on the board, are not exactly totally special, but some make it through. I remember MONO, standing out. I remember GHOST (Japan's) standing out. I remember COPPE standing out on Space Pirate Radio as well.

On the Italian posting, there were also some nice things, maybe two or three that stood out and the others you could easily find the impressions of a lot of other bands, but the best ones, you got the feeling of a "band" really working well together to create good music. Reminded me (not in style!) of the early Banco/Pfm stuff that had the same kind of far out attraction because they were really good and very well defined musicians knowing what they were doing. And Banco got even better. 

Listening is, for me, a sort of discipline, but one thing I like to do these days, is turn on the 2nd machine and play WoW (for example) and on the other machine the new band is playing out loud ... and you KNOW RIGHT AWAY when it is good, when you have to go look to find out the name of the piece and what exactly they are playing. At that point you know that it is good, and you will hear it again!

Few bands have come back, years later, and I started appreciating them. One of the weirdest ones was FLOH DE COLOGNE that a long time ago, was too bizarre and weird, despite some wonderful musical sections. The whole spoken side and what appears to be politics did not work in my ears. Hearing it today, played on Space Pirate Radio ... I go ... wow ... what was that? Only to find it was Floh de Cologne. Time to get their works now, which I passed on in those days! 

The big issue here on many of these listens, is that we heard a lot of the early stuff from a lot of places all over the world, thus not a lot of them are "surprising" and some of the new music does not seem to bring up a feeling of ... a new country ... a new language ... a new sound ... something that turns your ears and your mind inside out to listen to again ... and again!



Edited by moshkito - August 30 2021 at 13:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2021 at 14:09
I prefer having listened to it several times over mutliple days, but with the rough scale of PA (1-5 stars), it’s easier to place it where it most likely belongs. I look through my ratings from time to time and sometimes change ratings on albums. I had a raid some time ago after realizing three stars was a good score.

Edited by Zeph - August 31 2021 at 14:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2021 at 14:25
I once read an essay by Steve Lake about his work for Sounds. I remember that he mentioned that one of the first things he had to learn was that (given the number and the other things to do) one starts writing a review when the album starts playing and should be finished when the album finishes.

Another thing he wrote is that he lived for some time with Robert Fripp (at some point between Red and Discipline), and what a total freak Fripp was (not meant in a positive way). But I'm digressing...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluvmarillion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2021 at 01:06
I think a great feature of the PA review system is you can change your mind about a review you're written and go back and edit it and amend your rating score. My opinion of music is fluid. I change my mind almost weekly and am happy to admit I was wrong about a particular artist and have no issue with amending my views. Often though my opinion of a particular work is static and won't change over time while there are certain complex bands like Gentle Giant that seem to get better over time the more you listen to their albums. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2021 at 03:06
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

If "recency bias" was a huge problem here at PA the Top 100 would be littered with 21st Century offerings. It is not. Wobbler, All Traps On Earth, Anglagard, Steven Wilson - that's about it...


Actually PA suffers from an opposite problem, which is like some kinda 70's-cy bias. ;p
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2021 at 03:10
My personal preference is to listen to a new album a couple of times to get an initial feeling, then leave it for a week or two and come back to it. If I was reviewing an album it would do it after a couple of weeks, not after 1 or 2 listens.

Edited by chopper - September 01 2021 at 03:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chico Nóia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2021 at 18:35
I think nobody should review like that, specially when it's prog, due to its density. For me, listening to the album 3+ times for a week or almost would be enough, but it doesn't need to be specifically like that, just getting familiar with it and noticing things you couldn't really pay attention on first listens is enough. Even though, I don't consider myself someone qualified to really rate the quality of any album, just how much I like it (which is not how it should be rated and the reason I don't rate anything).

Edited by Chico Nóia - September 04 2021 at 18:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2021 at 08:01
Originally posted by Chico Nóia Chico Nóia wrote:

I think nobody should review like that, specially when it's prog, due to its density. For me, listening to the album 3+ times for a week or almost would be enough, but it doesn't need to be specifically like that, just getting familiar with it and noticing things you couldn't really pay attention on first listens is enough. Even though, I don't consider myself someone qualified to really rate the quality of any album, just how much I like it (which is not how it should be rated and the reason I don't rate anything).

Meu deus!

(BTW, welcome to the forum)

I'm not sure that you are seeing this from a perspective of some listeners that are very well versed in music, and in its history. Again, there are way too many albums I did not have to listen to twice, or three times, because it's grand nature and strengths are all there. 

My main concern is that waiting for something to stew in your head, is merely making sure you are comfortable with something that is a bit different for your tastes and you are not sure how to say it. I can tell you that some of the most experienced reviewers here on PA and myself (over 500 Foreign Film reviews) that it is not really necessary to live with something for a week ... let's see ... that's 51 or 52 reviews a year ... and I think that many of us could do more than that if it called for, however (mostly) it is not necessary.

The other thing, that is harder for newer folks to relate to, and review, is how many of us have been at this for 50 years, and came from a time that none of this actually existed and we were fortunate enough to see a massive historic moment in the arts from the 60's and the 70's, which is something that most younger folks have not been lucky enough to experience, specially now with the media saturating everyone's mind with their own special band ... and making it look like they are the sugar of all progressive music! It is REALLY DIFFICULT for today's listeners to find something special unlike the old days, where there was no word or anything about anything, and you heard it, or your friend did, and you got your mind blown out to pieces, better than any drug. Today, this feeling is non-existent by comparison, specially with music being so cookie cutter minded and not different.

Heck, so you know ... here's my 1972 for you!!!

Nektar, Genesis, Pink Floyd (was on it already for 2 years), Amon Duul 2, Can, Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Edgar Broughton Band, Pfm, Banco, Egberto Gismonti, Airto and Flora Purim, Hawkwind (saw the Space Ritual original tour with Stacia), Babe Ruth and a listing that is hard to remember in one shot. The immediate thing is how DIFFERENT each and everyone of these bands are, and how special their material was ... something that few folks can get their ears and ideas around, these days!

Music Reviews are about how well "centered" (my word) your views and ideas in music are. And when you have that, the things you want to review are the odd ones that you found were so different than the rest of the material out there ... and TODAY ... not having this variable is a huge issue ... yeah you might have to live with it, until you can figure out what it is all about ... well, I tell you, if you have to sit and figure out what ITCOTCK (KC) is all about, your review is over, and some folks wrote some really bad reviews based on their "preferences", and absolutely nothing to do with the album and its music, not to mention the precious social commentary at the time ... which most reviewers conveniently agree to be more popular with the social media average of nothing!

Learn about the history and the Picasso's, the Monet's, the Dali's, the Miro's ... and the huge number of folks that changed the scenery in the arts, and your appreciation for a lot of things will improve, and let me tell you that band XYZ may be nice, but I'm not going to write a review ... seems like everyone's darling and they are average at best, despite a long cut or two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Edited by moshkito - September 05 2021 at 08:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chico Nóia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2021 at 20:54
"Meu deus!

(BTW, welcome to the forum)"

A bit unfitting but ok, thx lol.

Anyway, like I said: "it doesn't need to be specifically like that, just getting familiar with it and noticing things you couldn't really pay attention on first listens is enough", so, if you can get familiar with it (or should I say, make sense of it), in 2 listens or whatever it's perfectly understable, I was just saying that I personally prefer to listen to this amount of time to decide (or just appreciate it, sometimes I just get addicted to the album lol).

"The other thing, that is harder for newer folks to relate to, and review, is how many of us have been at this for 50 years, and came from a time that none of this actually existed and we were fortunate enough to see a massive historic moment in the arts from the 60's and the 70's, which is something that most younger folks have not been lucky enough to experience, specially now with the media saturating everyone's mind with their own special band ... and making it look like they are the sugar of all progressive music! It is REALLY DIFFICULT for today's listeners to find something special unlike the old days, where there was no word or anything about anything, and you heard it, or your friend did, and you got your mind blown out to pieces, better than any drug. Today, this feeling is non-existent by comparison, specially with music being so cookie cutter minded and not different."

Yeah, I noticed that sad reality and sometimes I wished I could have had the experience of back then.

"if you have to sit and figure out what ITCOTCK (KC) is all about, your review is over"

What do you mean exactly?

"and let me tell you that band XYZ may be nice, but I'm not going to write a review ... seems like everyone's darling and they are average at best, despite a long cut or two!"

Heard of it but never listened to, like a lot of other ones lol, I've been listening to prog for just one year or something.


Edited by Chico Nóia - September 05 2021 at 21:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2021 at 11:51
Originally posted by Chico Nóia Chico Nóia wrote:

...
"if you have to sit and figure out what ITCOTCK (KC) is all about, your review is over"
...
Hi,

The album is a "perfect" snapshot of the place and times in London. The sad realities all around, and today, most reviewing it can not get their ideas around "Epitaph" (friends and family getting blown by bombs all over England, not to mention the Vietnam war that most English folks were against. "I listen to the wind" is pretty simple and basic. The lyrics say it all ... the wind passes and no one hears it! In other words many words pass left and right and no one hears anything. "20th Century Schizoid Man" was likely about Idi Amin, and many of the other extremists out there, although I think it might have also been an attack on other military maniacs around the world at the time.

It doesn't stop there, but gives you the idea. "Moonchild" is one of the pieces that confuses everyone and it is thought to be about Aleister Crowley's novel, about the loss of innocence. And it is really simple to parallel this with the "hippie" and otherwise "alternative" culture. It was the bunch of folks wearing flowers in their hair that ripped and destroyed SF, for example, and by the time the rest got into it in London (according to Anita Pallenberg's book),  the whole thing kinda fell apart, on top of the police not wanting to allow Beatles and Rolling Stones who by that time were richer than many of the lords in London ... to get ahead. That is a simplified version of it, sort of just kiddie minded.

Originally posted by Chico Nóia Chico Nóia wrote:

...
"and let me tell you that band XYZ may be nice, but I'm not going to write a review ... seems like everyone's darling and they are average at best, despite a long cut or two!"

Heard of it but never listened to, like a lot of other ones lol, I've been listening to prog for just one year or something.

I just used XYZ for fun, and the idea that so many bands out there "sound" the same, and they have nothing to show for it, except one more chord or one more note kind of thing ... it wasn't aimed at any band, although I really think that many of the "it" bands that some folks discuss here, are (somewhat) 2nd rate for my tastes and not "original" ... which is what I look for.

If you want to get your ears around something really hard and totally insane ... try the French band GRAND SBAM" which is some sort of insanity that blends 200 Motels (Frank Zappa) and Magma ... into what I am calling 300 Motels! Quite amazing and insane at the same time, but it is so far away from "popular music" that most folks will hate it, like they did FZ for a long time, and then some folks still dislike Magma because it is not a pop music band!


Edited by moshkito - September 06 2021 at 11:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chico Nóia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 16:02
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

The album is a "perfect" snapshot of the place and times in London. The sad realities all around, and today, most reviewing it can not get their ideas around "Epitaph" (friends and family getting blown by bombs all over England, not to mention the Vietnam war that most English folks were against. "I listen to the wind" is pretty simple and basic. The lyrics say it all ... the wind passes and no one hears it! In other words many words pass left and right and no one hears anything. "20th Century Schizoid Man" was likely about Idi Amin, and many of the other extremists out there, although I think it might have also been an attack on other military maniacs around the world at the time.

It doesn't stop there, but gives you the idea. "Moonchild" is one of the pieces that confuses everyone and it is thought to be about Aleister Crowley's novel, about the loss of innocence. And it is really simple to parallel this with the "hippie" and otherwise "alternative" culture. It was the bunch of folks wearing flowers in their hair that ripped and destroyed SF, for example, and by the time the rest got into it in London (according to Anita Pallenberg's book),  the whole thing kinda fell apart, on top of the police not wanting to allow Beatles and Rolling Stones who by that time were richer than many of the lords in London ... to get ahead. That is a simplified version of it, sort of just kiddie minded.

Yeah, ik there's a historical context, what I was really asking is what you meant by my review being over.
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I just used XYZ for fun, and the idea that so many bands out there "sound" the same, and they have nothing to show for it, except one more chord or one more note kind of thing ... it wasn't aimed at any band, although I really think that many of the "it" bands that some folks discuss here, are (somewhat) 2nd rate for my tastes and not "original" ... which is what I look for.
Kinda imagined that but wasn't sure cuz of the way you talk lol.

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

If you want to get your ears around something really hard and totally insane ... try the French band GRAND SBAM" which is some sort of insanity that blends 200 Motels (Frank Zappa) and Magma ... into what I am calling 300 Motels! Quite amazing and insane at the same time, but it is so far away from "popular music" that most folks will hate it, like they did FZ for a long time, and then some folks still dislike Magma because it is not a pop music band!
I still have to listen to Zappa but I got lazy cuz there are way too many albums. Magma's also in my list, so I might try Grand SBAM at some point, but I prefer to know the classics before trying more obscure and unknown prog bands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man Overboard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 16:07
Originally posted by paganinio paganinio wrote:

Someone I know has been reviewing prog rock albums one day after they come out, sometimes even on the same day they come out. I confronted them about this behavior and their response was, "I already listened to this four times."

Four listens in one day? That's enough?

The ratings range from 3 stars to 5 stars.

In general, I agree. Without careful attention, one cannot know the music they rate, and people who rate a lot of music tend to rate on superficial aspects or qualities without actually letting themselves understand the music they're rating. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 17:00
About 3 months ago, I bought The Visitor by Arena and then their debut, Songs From the Lions' Cage.
I now feel ready to review them. I could have done it earlier, but I wanted to see if my initial impression that they were both absolute masterpieces would fade.
It hasn't.
I normally never review until I've listened to the album at least 10 times, but I make the odd exception if the album is so unbearably bad that I can't listen to it ever again.
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