Kosmische Musik III |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16329 |
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Posted: October 20 2022 at 12:19 |
Tago Mago
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
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Hi, The right place to start, is ... college/university and the fact that these folks were not exactly unaware of music and the teaching around it. It was Holger (possibly someone else) that coined the phrase "anti-western musical concepts" and in CAN's first albums they followed that well, but later it changed. By FUTURE DAYS and SOON OVER BABALOOMA, it had changed to extend improvisations that were really pretty with some far-out transitions, specially the one in the two long cuts in SOON OVER BABALOOMA where the transition is the simplest and timeliest of touches on a cymbal. Not even a beat to speak of, something that an American band, or drummer could never do, since American drummers don't know what to do when things are quiet ... except maintain the same beat! How childish and uneducated that is, is all we can think! The fascination starts and "ends" with Damo, although I would never not include SOON OVER BABALOOMA, since what he did was the thing that really made the band famous, and it shows in the various concert videos left over from the time. But what we fail to see, is that this was the continuation of the newest expression in theater at the time ... total free form improvisation, which sadly enough ran out of moments for Damo 3 or 4 years later. But guess what we remember? And it was at that time that the band had its best improvisational moments, although as a student of acting/directing in film and theater, I would say that in those, it all comes down to what is known as a "guided improvisation", meaning that some parts and moments of it were kept from the original. It still sounded fine, but it was not the original by any means. As a band that started out by breaking the rules of western music, it was a concentrated and dedicated effort by folks that were studying music in what we should consider, one of the best of all schools of music EVER ... something that we don't credit much since so much of the "progressive music" is of the street variety with the simplest and easiest stuff done, only louder and with one more effect on it! It fits a lot, and deserves credit, when you look at it as "anti-composition" in the first albums, and this is visible even in their early days, so they were already thinking of mere experiments and improvisation, regardless of how they came about. Compare this to film in the late 60's where some big-name directors were turning over the concept of film! Rock music was behind almost 10 years! However, if you only look at this as just another rock song from the top bs lists ... then forget it ... Can, Amon Duul 2, TD, KS, are nothing but poop since none of them sold millions for a society that thinks that success is the result, not the process! The beauty gets lost when the process is now visible. And it takes the subtlety out of the work altogether. I think it all depends on how you look at music. I came from classical music and the variety and differences were the only thing that kept me happy ... sounding the same and staying the same (JT is my favorite spaghetti to throw!) is not my idea of great works of art! With a huge PERIOD. Edited by moshkito - October 20 2022 at 11:54 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 12938 |
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Thanks for your thoughts Mosh, enjoyed that. |
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Cosmiclawnmower
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 09 2010 Location: West Country,UK Status: Offline Points: 3041 |
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Yep, thats my kinda UFO Cheers from a card-carrying member of the Gerry and Sylvia Anderson fan club!
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 34775 |
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BrufordFreak
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 7955 |
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Popol Vuh. I have never understood/don't understand the love/fascination with Can.
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
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Hi,
It's hard to go against TAGO MAGO. The only thing that goes by us all is how much of it was simply sheer improvisation combined with what Holger had stated many times, was combed from 20 hours of tapes! We still think there is some sort of "composition" in all this when as a matter of fact, the whole thing was "anti-composition" ... an attitude that we dislike tremendously in regard to "Progressive Music" and its overrated number of bands, where it is all about their ability to simply write another conventional piece of music with slight variations here and there. Both Popol Vuh, and Guru Guru, in those early albums were quite improvised, and you can hear it better in one of the early releases of live material when GG goes insane with the sound, the atmosphere and the incredible storm ... something that we always thought only Jimi could ever do something like that! And yet, this guitar player made us look dumb for even thinking so, although we do not give him any credit whatsoever for his storm of sound, and ability to create an incredible atmosphere for this early material by this band. Sadly, they could not keep it up either and later were to become a mere shadow of the original, although still fun. Popol Vuh, was experimental right from the start. Remember that it was specified that he bought a synth from KS in order to learn it, and eventually he dumped it for music that was more acoustic than experimental, although I think that the underlying feeling was improvisational, by the time you get to the later material you end up thinking that improvisation is a sister to ritual ... which I'm not sure it is! Ritual tends to be slightly restricted as to the procedures and doings, although music for it, might be considered a side issue, and not exactly a part of it all. So, there would be some serious considerations here, so we get a better understanding of our choices. I would rather this vote was for the most "improvised" of all the Progressive Music materials, and both Popol Vuh, Can, Guru Guru, and especially Amon Duul 2 in the earlier days ... would be at the top of the list. But we have a hard time conceiving something that is improvised ... and we cannot even sit and compare the incredible atmosphere for the MM thing on Dance of the Lemmings, when put at the side of the two long pieces in Tago Mago ... AD2 in that album stands up magnificently as it did in their previous album ... but we go by favorites, not by listen and their value. AD2 is not a band that is liked because they are so different from album to album as to alienate people ... and makes us wonder what is going on? Maybe one day we will get, and understand, what helped define and make what we know as "krautrock" ... or what I like to suggest is music for the musically intelligent instead of the musically inept that can only count to four and variations there after!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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geekfreak
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 21 2013 Location: Musical Garden Status: Offline Points: 9872 |
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Can- Tago Mago
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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 10030 |
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 12938 |
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Can were like a "mighty pulsing organism". And this is them at their most adventerous including that album cover of the guy coughing out his brains. Oops.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 12938 |
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I have Gunter on this list three times including this band GAM. Apparently this was restored and edited by Alan Freeman from Cosmic Egg and he came up with the cover art. Julian Cope praised GAM's 1976 sessions saying they blew his mind.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 12938 |
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I hoped someone might mention Vinegar but wasn't expecting this. I have the Garden of Delights re-issue with lots of pictures and info. They mention that when they formed they named themselves Vinegar because they wanted to play music that was hard to digest in opposition to the sweet stuff others were playing. The violin is a nice touch. Book Of Dreams is a good one I'm sure you enjoyed.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 12938 |
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Pass out the bibs!
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 12938 |
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I'm surprised at the votes for UFO I thought it would be Popol Vuh as the runner up. That Guru Guru album was my first from them and I thought they were so bad ass. An instrumental album that's powerful, heavy and dark. Ax Gerich is all over this with his Hendrix inspired guitar. And that album cover is like visual static. Of course once I checked out subsequent albums I discovered Mani is a clown and they use a lot of humour in their music.
That's my favourite Popol Vuh album and about my third different favourite from them over the years. It just sounds different sound-wise at least after listening to Seligprseisung recently a prior favourite. |
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 10030 |
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I love Popol Vuh too, but Can is in a league of its own here. GAM - Eiszeit is a great lost album. Probably obscured a little extra by having the worst early 2000's CD-ROM styled cover imaginable. I think Günter Schickert is one of krautrock's unsung heroes. His soundscapes are always intriguing. I relistened to Überfällig the other day, after it appeared in one of your polls. The whole album is a terrific listen but I had forgotten just how fantastic Puls is. Vinegar's only album is a charming mess. A bit amateurish and the vocals annoy me somewhat. But the album ends with a genuine kraut-masterwork in Fleisch... which almost makes up for everything I notice how nuts some of you are over Guru Guru, but I've always found them quite underwhelming. Guess I'm simply not too crazy about heavy guitar jams with extended soloing. The kraut - or any other music I do enjoy are rarely about that at all. |
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20204 |
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CAN > Popol Vuh > Guru Guru
All very good albums but Tago Mago is a masterpiece
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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CAN rulez....Everyone else droolz!!
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: @ wicker man Status: Offline Points: 32681 |
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I just listened to Vinegar a little while ago and loved it. It sounds raw and quite sloppy, but in a way I really dig. I love this kind of slightly dirty and groovy psych blues rock. Very cool one to have slipped me by. I subsequently looked at the reviews and see it didn’t get much respect in general, a vinegar reaction one might say, but I respect your review, John. Glad I checked it out, and will again.. it stayed underground for me too long. Still, my vote is going to the amazing Tago Mago. I was tempted to go with the Popol Vuh.
Now going to play one of my favourites from Germany, Message’s From Books and Dreams. Edited by Logan - September 14 2021 at 21:17 |
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Man With Hat
Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
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I'll toss a pity vote to Guru Guru, and that Popol Vuh album is one of my favorites from them.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14106 |
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Tago Mago - Iconic album, one of the big towers of prog.
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