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Top Drumming Performances of the 2010s?

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    Posted: February 10 2022 at 03:38
^ Cool, Drew! (I used to be Shadowyzard, BTW.)

Hahah. He can play in such an outfit without being out of breath, so you must be right. Darkside is a good drummer. He definitely has style and creativity. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2022 at 14:15
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ i love it all however when i feel like a machine gun attitude adjustment is in order, NOTHING satisfies more than extreme tech death / black metal or proggy deathcore :)

This black metal guy has attracted lots of attention in the recent years. I think he is fun to watch. Should I join the Darkside? LOL



I REALLY enjoyed that! He makes it look so smooth and effortless--and sensical! Such economy of motion. Does he even sweat?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2021 at 06:57
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

...
A sports comparison seems warranted here: Tennis in the old days when the players were solo entities with wooden racquets and simple equipment compared to today's players with their modern composite rackets, hi-tech conditioning programs, and entourages of support teams. Respect for all eras!


Hi,

Even better ... the strings and the tension. Nowadays everyone has them at 80 PSI or better since the rackets are strong and all that. In the old days, McEnroe had his strings on the Wilson (wood) rackets at about 50 PSI so the ball would "die" when it touched it and he could get the ball to spin even more when he placed it over there in that spot, which made him one of the best "spot" players ever. And using the spin on the serve was even tougher on the opposition. But it changed when Lendl came along with strings about 70 PSI or more and he was blowing holes in John's rackets!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2021 at 04:13
Another great young drummer I wanna mention: Michael Mitchell.

Not just because he has got the killer chops (which he has for sure) but because, like the proper jazzman he is, he’s all about listening to and interacting with the other players. Check out the dialogue between him and pianist Greg Spero around half way into this Spirit Fingers track:



It would be interesting to hear him in an extreme metal context. Here he is with Cameron Graves, which seems about as close to that as you’ll get in jazz fusion:



Special thanks to Mirakaze, who just recently turned me on to Cameron Graves.

Edited by Mascodagama - December 05 2021 at 07:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2021 at 09:03
^ Thank you Drew. It was my pleasure. I also am learning lots of things from this forum. Let's all keep it that way. Also be thankful to yourself. Your intentions to create this thread were already clear. I would be sorry if I happened to be an a****le here. Ying Yang
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2021 at 08:50
^Great discussion, Mike and Özgür! Thanks! Just the kind of civil, on-target commentary I was hoping to generate with this thread. 

I agree that I'm not trying to make this out to be a competition--I appreciate the skills and styles of so many artists (including athletes)--I'm just trying to expand my awareness of what artists are out there that I might be missing.

Also, Özgür: Yes, that physical dedication component is super important. I know from many, many examples in athletics and health care that even a seemingly insignificant absence from one's craft of a day or two can significantly affect one's fine tuned timing and skill levels. Dedication is key. Great point.



Edited by BrufordFreak - November 22 2021 at 08:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2021 at 07:35
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ The "surpassing" and "competing" notions of yours. I only disagree with that. Or let me give a better example again from football (soccer). A creative midfielder who lacks speed/endurance but has better technical abilities than his teammates can be likened to a jazz drummer. A very technical but less creative footballer, and this time a striker, who has amazing speed/endurance can be likened to a technical/extreme metal drummer. I'm not stereotyping. There are many metal drummers that are more creative than some jazz drummers. But, in my humble opinion (I really don't like to prove anything here, this is just a nice talk with you) extreme drummers generally lack the creativity and versatility that the jazz drummers possess. I love watching drummers. If they are exceptionally talented. Be it jazz, rock, metal or whatever. I also love how some drummers use their technical skills only to enrich the music, and not showcasing them. I used to think that John Bonham was a regular, mediocre drummer; and I watched one of his solos and was blown away. His beats/hits are also very nuanced.

One thing to add... A real artist/craftsman can be awesome in a myriad of genres. But, one should utterly dedicate his/her life to his/her art/craft. Especially if you plan to do stuff that require lots of physical endurance, your "talent" would never be enough. You always have to stay fit. Even a piano virtuoso should keep his/her fingers "fit" by lots of exercises a day. The Turkish piano virtuoso Fazıl Say said that, if he doesn't play the piano for a couple of days, it takes weeks to compensate for it and be able to play the same again. I had a jazz bassist bandmate. He once said that pop basses are extremely difficult to learn. But once you master 10-20 pop songs, the rest is a piece of cake.

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OK, i get your drift. Many tech metal drummers are also in other bands. Glad you added the word "generally" because extreme metal can indeed become one-dimensional but then again that's the point. I personally don't feel music is competitive in nature. Some of us just have a need for speed and tech extreme metal can scratch that itch like nobody's business!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2021 at 07:16
^ The "surpassing" and "competing" notions of yours. I only disagree with that. Or let me give a better example again from football (soccer). A creative midfielder who lacks speed/endurance but has better technical abilities than his teammates can be likened to a jazz drummer. A very technical but less creative footballer, and this time a striker, who has amazing speed/endurance can be likened to a technical/extreme metal drummer. I'm not stereotyping. There are many metal drummers that are more creative than some jazz drummers. But, in my humble opinion (I really don't like to prove anything here, this is just a nice talk with you) extreme drummers generally lack the creativity and versatility that the jazz drummers possess. I love watching drummers. If they are exceptionally talented. Be it jazz, rock, metal or whatever. I also love how some drummers use their technical skills only to enrich the music, and not showcasing them. I used to think that John Bonham was a regular, mediocre drummer; and I watched one of his solos and was blown away. His beats/hits are also very nuanced.

One thing to add... A real artist/craftsman can be awesome in a myriad of genres. But, one should utterly dedicate his/her life to his/her art/craft. Especially if you plan to do stuff that require lots of physical endurance, your "talent" would never be enough. You always have to stay fit. Even a piano virtuoso should keep his/her fingers "fit" by lots of exercises a day. The Turkish piano virtuoso Fazıl Say said that, if he doesn't play the piano for a couple of days, it takes weeks to compensate for it and be able to play the same again. I had a jazz bassist bandmate. He once said that pop basses are extremely difficult to learn. But once you master 10-20 pop songs, the rest is a piece of cake.

Music is a deep ocean. One has to be a shark! Star

Edited by Shadowyzard - November 22 2021 at 07:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2021 at 07:08
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:



I still think, comparing jazz drummers with extreme/technical drummers as improper. It is like comparing sportsmen from different branches.
 

I beg to differ. The reason they are compared is because jazz drumming methodologies are integral in many of the techniques used in the more progressive styles of tech / extreme metal. If you don't hear jazz drumming in Cynic, Atheist or Gorguts then you're not listening very carefully.

Obviously metal is a huge universe at the moment and you can compare different bands to almost any style of music out there as it's all been incorporated (or so it seems).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2021 at 07:01
As usual, I'm here to shill for my boy Kenny Grohowski. I've heard him work in contexts from straight up jazz through jazz-fusion, improv, extreme metal and avant-prog and he feels completely right in all of them. I've put a few examples below.

Jazzin' with Rez Abbasi:

View from inside the drum booth at a Rez Abbasi session:


Extreme metal with an avant twist, as part of Imperial Triumphant:


Avant-prog with John Zorn's Simulacrum trio:


Bottom line, when I hear him play it hits me in my soul. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 22:15
^ You both are right, to an extent. Whilst, the technical and strategic "things" also improve as the competitions become more serious. You can easily observe this in football (soccer, for the Americans) and basketball (NBA is a great example). It is also getting "sicker". I agree with you about not comparing the eras, but technically they can be compared. Maradona (R.I.P.) could never play so "wizardly" in today's football. In today's football, the defenders use some strategies that prevent a "prodigy" to dribble past the defenders one by one. I mean, it can still be done but is extremely difficult unlike Maradona's time. As, another defender is already ready to encounter him if he could "beat" one of the defenders. And he keeps a fixed distance, and acts as fast as a bullet if the opponent succeeds to "eliminate" his teammate. This was both a technical and a strategic innovation, and a tactical "change". The defensive strategies and physical training methods improved a lot, and seems to be still improving. But, such a talent and character like Maradona would still be one of the best or perhaps the best footballer of this time still. He just would have to adapt his playing to today's football.

I still think, comparing jazz drummers with extreme/technical drummers as improper. It is like comparing sportsmen from different branches.

Edited by Shadowyzard - November 22 2021 at 01:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 19:01
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

I gotta admit (Mike) that the more I watch these closeup videos of extreme/tech/doom/black metal drummers, they're pretty impressive. Hard to discount the incredibly intricate work they do with their feet: I never knew they had multiple pedals per foot to "express" with! Skill, creative/artistry are definitely way more involved in their play than I ever knew/thought. Makes it kind of hard to compare these drummers with the "space-meisters" like Bruford, Jansen, Heron, Mallyon, and Coluzzi. It's like they're different breeds playing totally different instruments (in totally different universes).  


Yeah, i think the extreme nature of metal alienates many so that they don't bother to explore the true genius embedded in much of it. It's the modern version of the drumming Olympics! Of course Bruford and jazz giants paved the way for the modern era of tech proggy extreme metal. In my book it's all good!

A sports comparison seems warranted here: Tennis in the old days when the players were solo entities with wooden racquets and simple equipment compared to today's players with their modern composite rackets, hi-tech conditioning programs, and entourages of support teams. Respect for all eras!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 09:48
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

I gotta admit (Mike) that the more I watch these closeup videos of extreme/tech/doom/black metal drummers, they're pretty impressive. Hard to discount the incredibly intricate work they do with their feet: I never knew they had multiple pedals per foot to "express" with! Skill, creative/artistry are definitely way more involved in their play than I ever knew/thought. Makes it kind of hard to compare these drummers with the "space-meisters" like Bruford, Jansen, Heron, Mallyon, and Coluzzi. It's like they're different breeds playing totally different instruments (in totally different universes).  


Yeah, i think the extreme nature of metal alienates many so that they don't bother to explore the true genius embedded in much of it. It's the modern version of the drumming Olympics! Of course Bruford and jazz giants paved the way for the modern era of tech proggy extreme metal. In my book it's all good!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 08:50
I gotta admit (Mike) that the more I watch these closeup videos of extreme/tech/doom/black metal drummers, they're pretty impressive. Hard to discount the incredibly intricate work they do with their feet: I never knew they had multiple pedals per foot to "express" with! Skill, creative/artistry are definitely way more involved in their play than I ever knew/thought. Makes it kind of hard to compare these drummers with the "space-meisters" like Bruford, Jansen, Heron, Mallyon, and Coluzzi. It's like they're different breeds playing totally different instruments (in totally different universes).  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2021 at 13:26
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^If space is a criteria, the following meet that - Sanguine Hum, Izz, and Echolyn.

Yes! Thank you! I really love Paul Mallyon's work. Greg DiMiceli is great, too! Mark Heron from Oceansize was definitely a favorite from the Naughties.




Edited by BrufordFreak - November 20 2021 at 13:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2021 at 14:54
I like Marco Minniman when he jams with Paul Gilbert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2021 at 14:49
^If space is a criteria, the following meet that - Sanguine Hum, Izz, and Echolyn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2021 at 14:33
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

...
This comes to mind instantly, though I look at this more as a stellar band effort.

Simon Phillips .. (to save space)

A lot was said about Bill Bruford, but he made a comment on his book that was important that no drummers pay attention to ... what to do when it is quiet and there is some silence. I would even suggest that many of the drummers listed here don't know either! 

I've been waiting for others to chime in with this complaint. Why can't the use and allowance of space be a part of a drummer's talent? Steve Jansen being another master of this, IMO (but not in the 2010s). The drummer for Portland's eclectic band, The Mercury Tree, Connor Reilly, seems to possess some of this, as well. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2021 at 14:26
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:


 Ingranaggi Della Valle's drummer Shanti Colucci at times reminds me of Bill Bruford.

Funny, I called him "the new Bill Bruford" in my review of their debut album, In hoc signo back in 2013!
Never felt it the same when Warm Spaced Blue came out, though...

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