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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Uncarved Blog, part 1
    Posted: October 06 2005 at 11:15

Q: What is Prog?

A: Nobody knows.

Actually, that's not true- everybody knows. Every single person who visits this site has a clear idea of what progressive rock is, and which bands belong. It's just that every single person's definition is (at least) slightly different. Everyone knows what prog is, but no two people completely agree on it.

There's a few bands that nobody in their right mind would deny: Genesis, Yes, ELP, King Crimson, Pink Floyd...well, actually, there's some people out there who privately or publically dismiss Pink Floyd for one reason or another. They didn't mess around with time signatures much, and few people are willing to argue that Waters, Gilmour, Mason or Wright are grandmasters of their respective instruments. So even within what most of us would consider the 'core' of prog, there's room for dissent.

Part of the trouble is that there's such a huge difference between prog bands, arguably more so than any other single genre of music. What do Dream Theater and Magma have in common? Or Echolyn and Can? Compounding the issue is the fact that many bands, past and present, either refuse to call themselves prog- or at the very least did not set out specifically to make progressive rock. Clicking on the "Prog Rock ?" button at the top of the screen will bring you to a very thoughtful and convincing description of the genre, but it won't tell you why few question the 'progginess' of certain bands while just mentioning Radiohead and Queen is sure to spark shouting matches at your next prog dinner party.

Personally, I always just say that prog is the music that prog fans listen to. Yeah, I know...it's unsatisfying- not to mention that my college philosophy professors would have me skinned alive if they read such a circular definition. Most of Western thought has relied on the method of reducing concepts to basic units for classification, and only then tracing useful relationships between those units. We'd much rather have a clear definition, with specific requirements.

But one big thing that my definition has going for it is that it concentrates on the fans rather than any quality of the music itself. I believe that prog fans have considerably more in common than prog bands have in common. Fundamentally, most of us like to 'talk' music...I can bore people to tears with discussions of musical influences and the capabilities of various guitarists. You can call me a 'music nerd' if you like; I don't find the phrase demeaning. Being a little socially dysfunctional is a small price to pay for caring passionately about something. It's hard to remember if I had this tendency before I discovered prog (I suspect I did), but there's no doubt the genre caters to it. Yes, one can have rousing discussions of the virtuosos of post- bebop jazz or the resurgence of analog synthesizers in Acid House, but prog almost begs to be talked about. It's as if every band in these archives has a sticker on their albums that reads: "Listen, and then discuss."

For some of us, music is a passion...for others, a hobby. But very few of us prog fans are content to let our musical tastes slip into a mere lifestyle attribute or vague character identification ("What's your favorite color?" "Blue." "What sort of music do you like?" "Progressive Rock."). Nah...with us it approaches a religion, a nationality beyond borders, an undergound movement. We've all seen the expressions on the faces of our friends and loved ones when we start betraying our secret nerd: blank, usually, but also often derisive, condescending, or humorously tolerant at best. Try engaging your neighbor with a casual discussion about Van Der Graaf Generator and see how far it gets you (well, maybe not my neighbor...he happens to be a jazz bassist who loves Weather Report, but I doubt you're so lucky).

I suppose, objectively, that part of it is an outgrowth of the adolescent need for social acceptance and desire to classify the world around you along superficial lines. "What music do you listen to?" is the oft-heard refrain in many a high school or college, and the answer can seriously affect your further social activities. Perhaps we're all somewhat stuck in that not-quite-grown-up world. Prog doesn't have an instantly obvious 'look' like goth or hip-hop, and relatively few prog bands offer sew-on patches or t-shirts to clue you in (the guy wearing the "2112" or "Dark Side of the Moon" t-shirt could just be a garden-variety classic-rock dude). You really have to stick your neck out to find other proggers, or you used to, anyway...now we have websites such as this one, communities of more-or-less like-minded people; we enjoy a certain level of solidarity and understanding that many of us never experienced in those prehistoric days before the internet. In those underground days during the reign of the Lester Bangs ideology, declaring a preference for prog was something like admitting communist sympathies during McCarthyism or revealing homosexual tendencies during...well, anytime, really. Though I don't know of anyone getting beaten to death for being a Camel fan, so let's not take the comparison TOO seriously.

So now we have a situation in which prog fans are finally able to come together en masse, at least on their PCs. One might think that universal joy and brotherhood would be the result, but in practice there's more argument and debate than anything else. Why is this? Two main reasons:

1. Because (like any other group of nerds) we proggers are touchy about our tastes and very conscious about distinctions. We feel we've earned our opinions a little more than more casual music fans. We've endured the little oppressions and put in extra time with repeated listenings and research. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but prog fans are more entitled to their opinion about prog- just as theoretical physicists are more entitled to their opinion about Relativity. I'll bet that physicists have forums full of arguments about that one, too.

2. Because it's part of who we are. Proggers are the sort of people who like to talk about music. If there was nothing to argue about, there would be a lot less to talk about ("Hey, Radiohead is prog, right?" "Yep." "Okay, then...well, uh...how's the weather there?"). Sure, it would be great if there was a little less bickering and a little more constructive discussion, but that's asking a lot of human beings, no matter what the topic. We're not trying to build a nation here, just getting together to learn and listen and discuss the music that we like.

Because we're prog fans, and that's what we do. Talk about the music we like...whatever that music happens to be.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2005 at 13:41
(aka Hugues Chantraine)

MAYBE , JUST MAYBE, THE PROGHEAD IS HIS OWN WORST ENEMY!!!!!!

There are a few thoughts that James addressed that prompted me to write this reply.
 
The ‘progginess’ of some bands is always a sticky issue, but when prog buffs meet and want to discuss music outside prog and choose, say, John Martyn (or Tim Buckley), most progheads are aware of him and his lengthy career, and will probably agree on which albums are the best- without ever having exchanged views or opinions about him beforehand, and precisely for the progressive criteria that our beloved music style has taught us. And should you look in a general music encyclopedia (such as the old Penguin “Who’s Who” series written by Colin Larkin, now under the Virgin banner), you will find that the albums that the writer chooses for an introduction are the very same albums you mentioned to your prog buddy and not the ones that sold most. How is this possible, that certain of our tastes coincide with this general music writer’s prescriptions- while he will spend much time sl*gging off the groups you enjoy most, and yet he takes great care into minimizing the impact of those very bands? For one thing, that very same writer will assume that we proggers are too obtuse about commercial music, and this insistence at enjoying old bands and their obscure successor is rather anti-social stance- but can we really blame him?

Ever you ever tried to have a non-music conversation about something like football or soccer (knowing the other person is a buff and will not drop the subject easily) while spinning Zappa , Gnidrolog or IQ in your car deck? This may drive you to decide to change the music, switching to the radio or that old Stones tape that is gathering dust in the glovebox compartment. Even then your fave records are unwelcome, because you know damn well it is too tough a music for the given context. So, in general, the proghead will likely shun social occasions to meddle in not-as-deep subjects, because we would really rather be not wasting such precious little time we have into popular discussions and rather head right to our stereo (and headphones if we have to) to reach the musical orgasm we are yearning for. But is this not mental masturbation that we are inflicting on ourselves? Instead of being a little less obtuse and discovering that the beautiful blonde we had left in mid-conversation (because she had never heard of Fripp before) is not a bimbo, but rather someone that could be enlightened- and might just be friendly enough to form the four legged beast that we had hoped for, if we had just stuck around. This is where nerdism starts, and this is self-inflicted! And I do not recognize myself in that cliché, I even am a bit concerned when so many younger progheads are willingly calling themselves ‘nerds’ (as I discovered reading this forum), sometimes even going so far in nerdism that it brings on a looser image on the given youth. Sure we do not enjoy mediocrity in music, but why should the proghead be mediocre in life issues, just because he listens to more evolved musical currents?

Do we really want full recognition of our beloved progressive rock? I am not so sure we do. I do not want to see classic bands as Yes playing to full stadium audiences complete with the whole shebang of radio advertising, huge posters pasted on empty buildings, and finding that everything has been sold-out in two hours. Yes playing to 3000 progheads is much more enjoyable than in front of 60,000 event-goers. I do not want to see newer groups playing to hockey arenas...even though it would be fair for them to enjoy greater success than they currently do, especially for the incredible amount of work that goes into a prog record (I estimate that the effort put out for a prog record is roughly quadruple that of an alternative rock record before recording even starts) but really keep the non-initiated out, because they will hang around taking during that delicious musical passage between the flute to the Mini-Moog. He (the proghead) does not want to have huge spotlights on his focus of attention.

All progheads are asking is for the constant bashing to stop! From reading Brutish Weekly Musical Press, I believe this very bashing is on its way out- but all progheads should make sure they do not sound conceited or obtuse, or else the adverse effect will soon happen again. This is why it is important on sites like ProgArchives to be INCLUSIVE rather than EXCLUSIVE.
 

I think we all enjoy our "elitism" and are proud to be the only one in our neighborhood knowing of, say, Nebelnest, Comus, or Pineapple Thief. Unlike James, I have no neighbor that is a jazz buff ( but I do have roughly some "30 to 50 friends with whom I can discuss "prog-related" subjects), and of course I envy him. But no such luck! Do we really want our dumb neighbor with his ugly dog and his uglier human dog/wife to be listening to VDGG’s Plague Of The Lighthouse Keeper and having thrills as Hammill sings out "I prophecy disaster"? If he did enjoy that, he would be less of an idiot to our eyes and we would be afraid that we might have to take a second look to him and perhaps find out that his dog is a rare breed that gets a lot of attention from women because of their ugliness, his son might not be such a little b*****d after all, and his wife makes an excellent couscous.
 

Progheads complain about the lack of women into the prog realm , but fail to capitalize on the easier side of quality music. Women tend to see music differently than we do, and see it in a more festive manner - dancing and therefore in the longer term, falling in love and mating - instead of an artistic form of expression with all aesthetics considered. Although my girlfriend would certainly agree to the famous statement: "Prog rock? That’s the crap my husband listens to!!", we regularly make love to Days Of Future Past, Hybris (minus the last track) and ITCOTCK (minus Schizoid and the second part of Moonchild). Most of my ex-girlfriends now know of Gentle Giant, Univers Zero and Magma (and do not hate them) and will delight their next partners, should the occasion arise.
 

On a recent holiday, my mother came for a visit. While I drove around to show her the countryside, she actually listened in the car to Gatto Marte, Miles Davis (Sketches Of Spain), Cro-Magnon, and Aphrodite’s Child’s 666 album (three of them are on this site and I am all for the fourth’s inclusion). Not an easy selection, you’ll agree...but she phoned me last week, to my total amazement, to ask which Univers Zero album she’d heard in the living room and whether Julverne were still together- as she loved the En Ballade disc she found in a bargain bin!! WOW!!!! I managed to educate the woman who brought me up (well, she does listen to a lot of classic music but never the 20th century)! And I think I did it by choosing among the records I had in my collection for the ones that I thought she might listen and like. In truth, I’d had a yearning that day for Lard Free’s debut, Maneige’s Libre Service and Jefferson Airplane’s Crown Of Creation. They waited another week before getting their turn for a spin , but man- the little patience I’d had turned out to be completely worth it!!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 03:24
    
excellent work and i agree with most of your text, but:

1.i don't believe that all of the above are true in general...me and the other two friends of mine (the only friends of mine that listen to prog) don't have sociability issues and i want to believe that there aren't that many in the PA too...sure, progheads tend to have difficulties to get their b**t up, stop listening to music and go out for a cup of coffee but i'm sure you understand too that prog music isn't sth you can just have on the background when you hang out at your place or when your friends or the hot neighbor visits... it requires full attention, many listens and given that you love this music, you give it the time that it needs without this making you miserable... neither it's "Octopus" sth you will enjoy listening with your father while driving... i think all these are absolutely natural... the point is that you need to maintain a balance between your two sides of life: prog music and the rest... cause, let's face it.. prog music is not just the music a prog fan likes, it's sth more, sth special...
2.you are right i may too bitch about how pop music sells more than prog and pride upon the millions of copies DSOTM has sold but i wouldn't want all "these trendy guys" become prog fans too... we are the elite!!!!
3.i don't agree with PA being INCLUSIVE.. PA's job is to provide prog fans the database needed and inform them about it and create forums for us to talk about it, exchange info etc... if PA went anywhere else it would lose its identity, its cause of existence and it would get disoriented...
4.i have to agree too with the fact that women see music in a different way but i too have many examples from girlfriends of mine that really liked a lot og the prog suff i had had them listened to.. hell, my girlfriend is listening to Di Meola right now and really enjoying it.. maybe it's because of the trendiness of non prog music and its easier access... don't know, couldn't care less...
5.about the 'nerd' thing, there are lots of kinds of nerds... there is computer freak, sports freak ans so on and music freak too... this doesn't mean anything, you can't make any safe conclusions for music.. if you (not you,i mean generaly)choose to lock yourself in your basement so that you can listen to Magma's LPs for the 1000th time rather than go to a party, hey, that's you my friend not music...

what i'm trying to say here is that maybe your headline should be

MAYBE , JUST MAYBE, THE MAN IS HIS OWN WORST ENEMY!!!!!!

meaning that prog music is just a kind (yes, special, sure..) of music.. the point is how much you let it affect you more than just enjoying it... if a guy has issues like the ones you mentioned, you can't blame prog music for that, and they are issues that a Madonna fan could have too...

cheers...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 19:18
   Sure, there are nerds. I was talking with toolis the other day and he was surprised. He told me he had read things in these forums which made "prog-people" seem rather nerdy. I agree with that as its easier to find nerdy people here rather than in www.music_for_the_masses.com/forum for example.
   Everybody has the need to belong somewhere, as a human being. Some people choose to be trendy, others to be hooligans, others to be "strange" etc. All these are groups. Everybody should belong somewhere. Even people who seem to be in their own world belong in the group of strange people. I think thats a proof of our existance somehow. When somebody doesnt belong somewhere he will try for example to become a five star member in a forum or have for example 30,000 posts. This is nerdy to me...
 
  I would also like to express my opinion about other music genres. I think that music is, or at least should be written when somebody has something to express by it. Fear, love, anger... whatever. Of course everybody needs to be able to survive, have a home, feed his family so its also a matter of money too, but when money begin to take over and become more important thn expression thats when the music suck (at least for me).
   I remember a forum asking "is prog the best genre" though I cant find it now Confused. Anyway I think that most people on PA consider prog to be "the best" genre. To me thats not at all true. You may not like other genres but you cant say its crap. For example punk is not technical or demanding at all. However punk is not pure crap. It was people expressing their anger by it. I cant listen to Sex Pistols either but I respect them. There are punk bands that I like but when we call punk bands like green day we're completely losing the point. Hip hop too. Is hip hop crap? To me no. Even if its not really music (samples and talking really). Is 50 cent hip hop? NO, surely not!
   Apart from genres like classical and jazz we must understand that even other genres have amazing music to show. Mabye simple, not as demanding music but a clash record may express a hell lot more than a pretentious Elp one (dont get me wrong i love elp).
 
   I also agree with what you say about prog rocks recognition. Its like the bands that you really like and sometimes you dont what to get your friend into cause its something you want to keep for yourself. Thats not right though.... I dont know about you guys but I would surely like to have more people around me who listen to prog and talk with them instead of a forum. Surely people who would just listen to prog cause it would be fashionable would be a nightmare. Its strange though.... i dont see people listen to music. I mean, of course everybody listens to music, but at the moment I can only think of a few people who listen to entire cds and not "hits". Thats what's sad....
   Music is not art anymore. Generaly art is not in our life anymore. I'm only 16 I dont know if it was but I think this world is very pretentious. Everybody is the image he wants the others to have about him. I dont know why this is happening and thats why I think most prog listeners are unsocial. I dont know.... mabye its because prog listeners belong in the minority. We mostly have an appearence different to the usual. I dont think its bad.... I think we are ourselfs. I dont know about you but when I see someone different from the others thats when i'm interested to know him. I think most of you are like that but i'm not sure.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2006 at 02:55
Originally posted by sularetal sularetal wrote:

   Sure, there are nerds. I was talking with toolis the other day and he was surprised. He told me he had read things in these forums which made "prog-people" seem rather nerdy. I agree with that as its easier to find nerdy people here rather than in www.music_for_the_masses.com/forum for example.
   Everybody has the need to belong somewhere, as a human being. Some people choose to be trendy, others to be hooligans, others to be "strange" etc. All these are groups. Everybody should belong somewhere. Even people who seem to be in their own world belong in the group of strange people. I think thats a proof of our existance somehow. When somebody doesnt belong somewhere he will try for example to become a five star member in a forum or have for example 30,000 posts. This is nerdy to me...
 
  I would also like to express my opinion about other music genres. I think that music is, or at least should be written when somebody has something to express by it. Fear, love, anger... whatever. Of course everybody needs to be able to survive, have a home, feed his family so its also a matter of money too, but when money begin to take over and become more important thn expression thats when the music suck (at least for me).
   I remember a forum asking "is prog the best genre" though I cant find it now Confused. Anyway I think that most people on PA consider prog to be "the best" genre. To me thats not at all true. You may not like other genres but you cant say its crap. For example punk is not technical or demanding at all. However punk is not pure crap. It was people expressing their anger by it. I cant listen to Sex Pistols either but I respect them. There are punk bands that I like but when we call punk bands like green day we're completely losing the point. Hip hop too. Is hip hop crap? To me no. Even if its not really music (samples and talking really). Is 50 cent hip hop? NO, surely not!
   Apart from genres like classical and jazz we must understand that even other genres have amazing music to show. Mabye simple, not as demanding music but a clash record may express a hell lot more than a pretentious Elp one (dont get me wrong i love elp).
 
   I also agree with what you say about prog rocks recognition. Its like the bands that you really like and sometimes you dont what to get your friend into cause its something you want to keep for yourself. Thats not right though.... I dont know about you guys but I would surely like to have more people around me who listen to prog and talk with them instead of a forum. Surely people who would just listen to prog cause it would be fashionable would be a nightmare. Its strange though.... i dont see people listen to music. I mean, of course everybody listens to music, but at the moment I can only think of a few people who listen to entire cds and not "hits". Thats what's sad....
   Music is not art anymore. Generaly art is not in our life anymore. I'm only 16 I dont know if it was but I think this world is very pretentious. Everybody is the image he wants the others to have about him. I dont know why this is happening and thats why I think most prog listeners are unsocial. I dont know.... mabye its because prog listeners belong in the minority. We mostly have an appearence different to the usual. I dont think its bad.... I think we are ourselfs. I dont know about you but when I see someone different from the others thats when i'm interested to know him. I think most of you are like that but i'm not sure.




very impressive response, especially from a 16 year old, I wish I had learned as much when I was your age.


I would disagree with your theory that we all need to belong somewhere. There are plenty of what I would call hermits who lead happy lives. Biologically, yes, we have a need for companionship. However, biology does not always equate to what happens in highly centralized nervous systems like the human being.

For example, biologically we are not supposed to be monogomous, but many of us do take that route, and enjoy it fully. Also, biologically we are not able to use computers, yet we learn to ADAPT.

In the end we just have to adapt to our surroundings or change them, and change is usually difficult and near impossible given the scope of what must be done. The biggest thing we must do is adapt our needs and interest as music lovers into society. To me its not really important who listens or doesnt listen to what I listen to. I just listen to things I enjoy, and I am more than happy to have others enjoy it as well.



back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2006 at 03:08

Originally posted by OpethGuitarist OpethGuitarist wrote:


Originally posted by sularetal sularetal wrote:

   Sure, there are nerds. I was talking with toolis the other day and he was surprised. He told me he had read things in these forums which made "prog-people" seem rather nerdy. I agree with that as its easier to find nerdy people here rather than in www.music_for_the_masses.com/forum for example.
   Everybody has the need to belong somewhere, as a human being. Some people choose to be trendy, others to be hooligans, others to be "strange" etc. All these are groups. Everybody should belong somewhere. Even people who seem to be in their own world belong in the group of strange people. I think thats a proof of our existance somehow. When somebody doesnt belong somewhere he will try for example to become a five star member in a forum or have for example 30,000 posts. This is nerdy to me...
 
  I would also like to express my opinion about other music genres. I think that music is, or at least should be written when somebody has something to express by it. Fear, love, anger... whatever. Of course everybody needs to be able to survive, have a home, feed his family so its also a matter of money too, but when money begin to take over and become more important thn expression thats when the music suck (at least for me).

   I remember a forum asking "is prog the best genre" though I cant find it now . Anyway I think that most people on PA consider prog to be "the best" genre. To me thats not at all true. You may not like other genres but you cant say its crap. For example punk is not technical or demanding at all. However punk is not pure crap. It was people expressing their anger by it. I cant listen to Sex Pistols either but I respect them. There are punk bands that I like but when we call punk bands like green day we're completely losing the point. Hip hop too. Is hip hop crap? To me no. Even if its not really music (samples and talking really). Is 50 cent hip hop? NO, surely not!

   Apart from genres like classical and jazz we must understand that even other genres have amazing music to show. Mabye simple, not as demanding music but a clash record may express a hell lot more than a pretentious Elp one (dont get me wrong i love elp).

 

   I also agree with what you say about prog rocks recognition. Its like the bands that you really like and sometimes you dont what to get your friend into cause its something you want to keep for yourself. Thats not right though.... I dont know about you guys but I would surely like to have more people around me who listen to prog and talk with them instead of a forum. Surely people who would just listen to prog cause it would be fashionable would be a nightmare. Its strange though.... i dont see people listen to music. I mean, of course everybody listens to music, but at the moment I can only think of a few people who listen to entire cds and not "hits". Thats what's sad....

   Music is not art anymore. Generaly art is not in our life anymore. I'm only 16 I dont know if it was but I think this world is very pretentious. Everybody is the image he wants the others to have about him. I dont know why this is happening and thats why I think most prog listeners are unsocial. I dont know.... mabye its because prog listeners belong in the minority. We mostly have an appearence different to the usual. I dont think its bad.... I think we are ourselfs. I dont know about you but when I see someone different from the others thats when i'm interested to know him. I think most of you are like that but i'm not sure.
very impressive response, especially from a 16 year old, I wish I had learned as much when I was your age.I would disagree with your theory that we all need to belong somewhere. There are plenty of what I would call hermits who lead happy lives. Biologically, yes, we have a need for companionship. However, biology does not always equate to what happens in highly centralized nervous systems like the human being. For example, biologically we are not supposed to be monogomous, but many of us do take that route, and enjoy it fully. Also, biologically we are not able to use computers, yet we learn to ADAPT. In the end we just have to adapt to our surroundings or change them, and change is usually difficult and near impossible given the scope of what must be done. The biggest thing we must do is adapt our needs and interest as music lovers into society. To me its not really important who listens or doesnt listen to what I listen to. I just listen to things I enjoy, and I am more than happy to have others enjoy it as well.

    
   i stand by your opinion...we don't nessecarily need to belong aomewhere.. BUT: some people choose to do so... people who choose not to belong somewhere have already chosen sth... to belong to "the rest", per se... do you get it? it's like that theory that says if we isolate fascists out of our community, we become fascists ourselves... unfortunately, that applies to some prog fans, too... that's what me and sulateral believe... some people, "act" in the PA prompted by their love to prog... but, some others use it as a subterfuge to define themselves in the prog world.. in order to do that, they rule out any other kind of music, post polls like: "is prog the best music?", like sulateral mentioned, post meaningless replies, rate and write reviews to the same 10 masterpieces etc...
   that was my original intention when posting my first reply of this thread...that this is a phenomenon taking place to all aspects of life or kinds of music, since this is our topic... driven by the need of people to belong somewhere and be accepted by their "kindred spirits" behave as mentioned above... BUT, this is not a prog fan distinctive, it's a general human thing.. Aristoteles first stated that man is a sociable being... this kind of behavior applies for all people and fans of all kinds of music..
-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...

-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2006 at 08:44
Three very interesting replies with some rather consensual answers to my post, which must be read in context with James Lee's first text in his other thread.
 
 
 
 


Edited by Sean Trane - September 13 2006 at 08:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2006 at 08:53
The link takes you to the same thread....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2006 at 09:45
ooops
 
try it now
 
 
 
I cannot change the first post of this blog because James Lee is the one who posted it. Or else I would've included this link in it.
 
This was posted in the halcyon days of the blog section where he was managing it.


Edited by Sean Trane - September 13 2006 at 11:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2006 at 10:00
Originally posted by sularetal sularetal wrote:

. I agree with that as its easier to find nerdy people here rather than in www.music_for_the_masses.com/forum for example.


OK, confession time - who else clicked on this?
Blog this:
http://artrock2006.blogspot.com
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 03:25
Originally posted by Dragon Phoenix Dragon Phoenix wrote:


Originally posted by sularetal sularetal wrote:

. I agree with that as its easier to find nerdy people here rather than in www.music_for_the_masses.com/forum for example.


OK, confession time - who else clicked on this?

     
-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...

-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 07:20
Originally posted by Dragon Phoenix Dragon Phoenix wrote:

Originally posted by sularetal sularetal wrote:

. I agree with that as its easier to find nerdy people here rather than in www.music_for_the_masses.com/forum for example.


OK, confession time - who else clicked on this?
 
LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2006 at 07:42
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

ooops
 
try it now
 
 
 
I cannot change the first post of this blog because James Lee is the one who posted it. Or else I would've included this link in it.
 
This was posted in the halcyon days of the blog section where he was managing it.
 
I agree with what you say in that thread. Yeah, mabye you would like to be able to discuss about the new vdgg cd with many people but I'm sure a painter would like to do the same about the new work of a painter with his friends. I dont think this happens to prog fans only but to everyone that has a passion with something and especially if this something is a way of expression like music and whatever we call "art". For example music is my passion and a huge part of my life. However I dont know almost anything about painters for example (apart from famous ones). I would really like to know more or read more for example but sometimes I prefer to listen to a cd than watch a film read a book or go to a painters exhibition. Not saying its better, just what I prefer. When people dont have a passion about something thats when there is something wrong... I have to say most of people I know don't really have one. Mabye we are less social but I think we enjoy life more that way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2006 at 23:50
I laugh when people talk about Progheads as nerds because we make a strong analysis of things, yesterday I was looking at Discovery Chanell and there was a special about the San Francisco airport police and I saw four real NERDS (Or what I know as nerds).
 
Four kids in their late teens/early 20's ru8nning through the airport with the same outfit (Very rap) because they had been told Eminem was thee.
 
Their behaviour was really obsessive, oone of them said oin a weird language similar to English: "Eminem is my Idol, he's Da MAN, he is better than anybody who has existed" and the usual "I want to be like him when I grow up".
 
For God's sake, I never seen a proghead running with cape in the airport because Wakeman is there, most of us like Fripp but admit the guy is a jerk, this kids had already grown up, at the age of 19 or 20 you're already a man, not saying I want yto be EMINEM when OI grow up.
 
At the end when they discovered Eminem was not in the airport (A clerck checked her computer, something I believe is illegal) the guys were really devastated, they all hugged each other giving mutual comfort for the tragedy, another kid said this is the worst day of my life but I know some day I will meet him and shake his hand....WHAT A LOSER.
 
What a bunch of real nerds, I found very few among progheads honestly.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 13 2006 at 00:42
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2007 at 19:10
Originally posted by sularetal sularetal wrote:

  
   Music is not art anymore. Generaly art is not in our life anymore. I'm only 16 I dont know if it was but I think this world is very pretentious. Everybody is the image he wants the others to have about him. I dont know why this is happening and thats why I think most prog listeners are unsocial. I dont know.... mabye its because prog listeners belong in the minority. We mostly have an appearence different to the usual. I dont think its bad.... I think we are ourselfs. I dont know about you but when I see someone different from the others thats when i'm interested to know him. I think most of you are like that but i'm not sure.


I agree completely. I had a long response about music today but I accidentally hit the back button, and don't feel like writing it again Big smile.

Anyway, you should check out this article- http://houstonpress.com/Issues/2007-01-04/news/feature_print.html

It basically tells a more detailed account of what I had written.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2007 at 19:25
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I laugh when people talk about Progheads as nerds because we make a strong analysis of things, yesterday I was looking at Discovery Chanell and there was a special about the San Francisco airport police and I saw four real NERDS (Or what I know as nerds).
 
Four kids in their late teens/early 20's ru8nning through the airport with the same outfit (Very rap) because they had been told Eminem was thee.
 
Their behaviour was really obsessive, oone of them said oin a weird language similar to English: "Eminem is my Idol, he's Da MAN, he is better than anybody who has existed" and the usual "I want to be like him when I grow up".
 
For God's sake, I never seen a proghead running with cape in the airport because Wakeman is there, most of us like Fripp but admit the guy is a jerk, this kids had already grown up, at the age of 19 or 20 you're already a man, not saying I want yto be EMINEM when OI grow up.
 
At the end when they discovered Eminem was not in the airport (A clerck checked her computer, something I believe is illegal) the guys were really devastated, they all hugged each other giving mutual comfort for the tragedy, another kid said this is the worst day of my life but I know some day I will meet him and shake his hand....WHAT A LOSER.
 
What a bunch of real nerds, I found very few among progheads honestly.
 
Iván

LOL I Agree! I really don't understand the hip-hop culture. It's as if they intentionally act with little intelligence and make themselves seem tough or cool. Then again, they could probably insult us just as easily.

I think you guys would agree with me when I say that making a beat and sample on a computer while rapping or singing about drugs, guns or sex while using the N word every 3 seconds and cursing constantly, is not art. It's not just some of the unoriginal hip-hop artists I don't really respect either. Anyone who plays music simply to become rich, because everyone else is doing it or because they want to sound like someone else, is not truly a musician.

Knowing how to play a musical instrument (or sing) and how to write metaphoric lyrics and an ORIGINAL piece of music (not wanting to sound like your favorite band/artist) , regardless of whether or not it is jazz, classical or prog, IS ART.

If you can do this, I respect you very highly, even if I may not like your music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2007 at 06:33
Originally posted by MajesterX MajesterX wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I laugh when people talk about Progheads as nerds because we make a strong analysis of things, yesterday I was looking at Discovery Chanell and there was a special about the San Francisco airport police and I saw four real NERDS (Or what I know as nerds).
 
Four kids in their late teens/early 20's ru8nning through the airport with the same outfit (Very rap) because they had been told Eminem was thee.
 
Their behaviour was really obsessive, oone of them said oin a weird language similar to English: "Eminem is my Idol, he's Da MAN, he is better than anybody who has existed" and the usual "I want to be like him when I grow up".
 
For God's sake, I never seen a proghead running with cape in the airport because Wakeman is there, most of us like Fripp but admit the guy is a jerk, this kids had already grown up, at the age of 19 or 20 you're already a man, not saying I want yto be EMINEM when OI grow up.
 
At the end when they discovered Eminem was not in the airport (A clerck checked her computer, something I believe is illegal) the guys were really devastated, they all hugged each other giving mutual comfort for the tragedy, another kid said this is the worst day of my life but I know some day I will meet him and shake his hand....WHAT A LOSER.
 
What a bunch of real nerds, I found very few among progheads honestly.
 
Iván

LOL I Agree! I really don't understand the hip-hop culture. It's as if they intentionally act with little intelligence and make themselves seem tough or cool. Then again, they could probably insult us just as easily.

I think you guys would agree with me when I say that making a beat and sample on a computer while rapping or singing about drugs, guns or sex while using the N word every 3 seconds and cursing constantly, is not art. It's not just some of the unoriginal hip-hop artists I don't really respect either. Anyone who plays music simply to become rich, because everyone else is doing it or because they want to sound like someone else, is not truly a musician.

Knowing how to play a musical instrument (or sing) and how to write metaphoric lyrics and an ORIGINAL piece of music (not wanting to sound like your favorite band/artist) , regardless of whether or not it is jazz, classical or prog, IS ART.

If you can do this, I respect you very highly, even if I may not like your music.
 
I don't agree with you. Your definition of art is "Knowing how to play a musical instrument (or sing) and how to write metaphoric lyrics and an ORIGINAL piece of music (not wanting to sound like your favorite band/artist) , regardless of whether or not it is jazz, classical or prog, IS ART."

In my humble opinion art is just about expression. Art is something that is usless really (don't know really how to describe my thoughts in english, sorry). It's something that we create just because we feel like doing it. There is no real purpose (money, fame etc.). Creating a hole on the ground could be a piece of art. What you define as art is the application of previous knowledge. What does "knowing how to play a musical instrument" mean? I could play guitar hitting the chords with my foot. If something nice (either for me or the listener) came out why shouldn't be called art? Just because I didn't use the method most people used in order to express theirselves in the past?

I was replying on what you said in your last post. I havn't had the time to read the page that you sent me but I will reply as soon as i do read it.


Edited by sularetal - January 14 2007 at 06:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2007 at 15:25
Originally posted by sularetal sularetal wrote:

 
I don't agree with you. Your definition of art is "Knowing how to play a musical instrument (or sing) and how to write metaphoric lyrics and an ORIGINAL piece of music (not wanting to sound like your favorite band/artist) , regardless of whether or not it is jazz, classical or prog, IS ART."

In my humble opinion art is just about expression. Art is something that is usless really (don't know really how to describe my thoughts in english, sorry). It's something that we create just because we feel like doing it. There is no real purpose (money, fame etc.). Creating a hole on the ground could be a piece of art. What you define as art is the application of previous knowledge. What does "knowing how to play a musical instrument" mean? I could play guitar hitting the chords with my foot. If something nice (either for me or the listener) came out why shouldn't be called art? Just because I didn't use the method most people used in order to express theirselves in the past?



unoriginal music shouI meant art in music. Not art in general. I just don't believe that totally unoriginal music should be considered great. I like "regressive" rock bands like Spock's Beard, because even though they are not entirely original, they do things in a creative and expressive way.

I agree that art in general is about expression. I disagree strongly that art is useless, but I respect your opinion.

If art, which you YOURSELF described as self-expression, did not exist because it is useless, we would not express ourselves, would be living unsophisticated and would not thinking of anything new or innovative. Thus, humans as a race would die out, because we would not "express" ourselves as you have mentioned.

If there was no art or self-expression as you have defined it, we would not express ourselves by creating inventions, civilizations, and we would all be ignorant or even extinct because I believe that lack of expression= lack of original thought and representation of that thought.

Nothing else on earth can think and express those thoughts toward the improvement of life like Humans can, that's why we are the most powerful beings on the planet, or perhaps the universe.

Maybe I'm being too metaphysical or over-dramatic, but I think art is essential to our survival.



Edited by MajesterX - January 14 2007 at 15:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2007 at 13:34
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I laugh when people talk about Progheads as nerds because we make a strong analysis of things, yesterday I was looking at Discovery Chanell and there was a special about the San Francisco airport police and I saw four real NERDS (Or what I know as nerds).
 
Four kids in their late teens/early 20's ru8nning through the airport with the same outfit (Very rap) because they had been told Eminem was thee.
 
Their behaviour was really obsessive, oone of them said oin a weird language similar to English: "Eminem is my Idol, he's Da MAN, he is better than anybody who has existed" and the usual "I want to be like him when I grow up".
 
For God's sake, I never seen a proghead running with cape in the airport because Wakeman is there, most of us like Fripp but admit the guy is a jerk, this kids had already grown up, at the age of 19 or 20 you're already a man, not saying I want yto be EMINEM when OI grow up.
 
At the end when they discovered Eminem was not in the airport (A clerck checked her computer, something I believe is illegal) the guys were really devastated, they all hugged each other giving mutual comfort for the tragedy, another kid said this is the worst day of my life but I know some day I will meet him and shake his hand....WHAT A LOSER.
 
What a bunch of real nerds, I found very few among progheads honestly.
 
Ivбn
 
That sounds like something OpethGuitarist would do. WinkLOL
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2007 at 11:31
Thanks Ivan

LOL
back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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