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Is music (albums) or bands most important for you?

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Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 22:19
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ I already did so. What I "meant" was clear. I'm also an amateur musician, and even took part in official releases as a singer. I have musician friends too. They are "humans" that have friends, relatives etc.

Do you think I'm not aware of that?

I'm the former bass player to Bob Fripp's early Guitar Craft student, Alonzo "Lon" Jones, and his rather amazing band, CAVU (Ceiling and Visibility Unlimited).  

Having partaken in the prog creative process at a high level taught me that, when the band is "in the zone," the muse visits and the music results. 

The music listened to by fans is just a pale approximation of the joy that the musicians feel at its creation.  We fight, we laugh, and then we get down to work.  There is no more magic moment in life than that. 

It's really cool that you've been able to play this kind of music at a very high level. It isn't that cool however to kind of puff your chest out about it and consider your own answer to the question to be the only correct one. I'm sure many of us here are musicians in some capacity and do have some understanding of that euphoric feeling we get when creating music. However many of us are also massive music fans of the listening kind, who form special bonds and attachments to particular records or bands we weren't a part of based on how well they connect with us. 
Everyone's going to connect with music most completely in their own way, and for some it's the albums as artifacts and works of art which outrank the evolving nature of bands in personal importance. For you obviously it's the experience of creating music at a high level which reigns supreme, a feeling I'm inclined to share myself actually. I haven't played prog with any famous or semi-famous musicians, but I did play saxophone in my school concert and jazz bands for about half my life, and those times when everyone was playing their absolute best were indeed magical. The feeling I would get when a solo would come out just right was otherworldly, like I was in perfect control of my own destiny. On the other hand though, I've absolutely teared up listening to certain Dream Theater albums, burst out laughing in delight along with Queen, and actually felt closer to God at the end of Supper's Ready. Records can have otherworldly qualities for me as well.
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 22:02
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Great question.

To me bands are way more important than albums. If you concentrate only on the albums you can end up downgrading the importance of the band itself and that is dangerous in my view. 

My favourite band for some time has been Emerson, Lake and Palmer. They were a great live band and produced some massively important music that doesn't need listing by me. They were innovative, exciting and brave as a band. Other artists looked and took note of them. That's the facts. Did they produce a killer album like say Pawn Hearts or The Snow Goose? Sadly no, but my feelings don't change. It is what it is but no one is going to convince me that VDGG or Camel were a better band. You can look back and it may seem like that now because ELP made many bad decisions but what has that got to do with music? Really it doesn't IMO.

 

I like this response a lot. It helps me see into a view that I can't see in myself, as my favorite band happens to be the same one that made my favorite album and favorite song, was my favorite live show, and has had a couple of my favorite musicians. But there's not any rule that says all that should be true of everyone, and undoubtedly ELP are a great choice for a favorite band for all of the reasons you mentioned!
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 21:58
Kind of a weird question. From a certain point of view it's the quality of the albums that determines the quality of the band. However there are many other important aspects of a band to consider than simply how good their discography is. Like, I'd argue Gentle Giant has a stronger discography as a whole than PFM, but I personally prefer PFM almost solely because of how much I love Per Un Amico. So sometimes a single record can make or break a band, regardless of the rest of their output. Or to break totally away from albums, it's very conceivable someone could vastly prefer ELP (who are often thought to have a weak discography compared to other big bands) to Steely Dan (who have a very strong discography) based on their live shows. ELP's shows were close to the stuff of legend, stabbing hammonds with knives and what not. Can't say I've ever heard The Dan's shows being regarded the same way. Also ELP have a very rock solid cast of musicians (E, L, and P specifically!). Steely Dan, while fronted by two main dudes, is practically Russian roulette of great studio musicians on all the other instruments.  In fact no band shows the power of an iconic, stable visual image than Kiss, who's makeup became more famous than their music.  When I think of Steely Dan I don't have much an idea what I'm supposed to be picturing. When I think of ELP I see those three dudes jamming on stage or in a room, again stabbing hammonds with knives and standing of a big oriental rug and pulling a bell with their teeth. When I think of Kiss tons of images of those four faces come to mind all at once, with the Kiss logo lit up behind them and fire and fake blood everywhere.  So image on its own merits definitely plays a role in how a band rates or ranks in my estimation. 

I may have strayed a bit from the main question, but I think it was an interesting tangent at least.
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 21:29
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ I already did so. What I "meant" was clear. I'm also an amateur musician, and even took part in official releases as a singer. I have musician friends too. They are "humans" that have friends, relatives etc.

Do you think I'm not aware of that?

I'm the former bass player to Bob Fripp's early Guitar Craft student, Alonzo "Lon" Jones, and his rather amazing band, CAVU (Ceiling and Visibility Unlimited).  

Having partaken in the prog creative process at a high level taught me that, when the band is "in the zone," the muse visits and the music results. 

The music listened to by fans is just a pale approximation of the joy that the musicians feel at its creation.  We fight, we laugh, and then we get down to work.  There is no more magic moment in life than that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 16:31
It's been touched on a bit but some bands (notably King Crimson and Yes) end up almost being projects with so many line up changes. Then the albums maybe are more important. Red and Relayer are both unique and special albums for that reason.
Perhaps when bands hardly ever have a line up change (ie Rush) then it's easier to view the entire body of work as a seamless and evolving situation rather than getting stuck on just one or 2 albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 10:26
^ I already did so. What I "meant" was clear. I'm also an amateur musician, and even took part in official releases as a singer. I have musician friends too. They are "humans" that have friends, relatives etc.

Do you think I'm not aware of that?

Edited by Shadowyzard - December 07 2021 at 10:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 10:22
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

I'm a musician, and the correct answer, of course, is "bands."

There's not such an objective "correct answer" here. The bands are not our relatives, friends, and/or loved ones. 

Speak for yourself. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 08:08
Originally posted by yogev yogev wrote:

For me, the "music" (albums) is the most importent thing, thats what it all about. But I don't agree with people that don't bother checking about the band or the bandmates, the people behind it, people who do not read a lttle general information about the music they like. It maybe not affecitve to people here. In this website I know that the people are not like this... But you get my point.   

When I was younger, it was all about the albums and the music... I was actually quite fiercely opposed to basing my listening choices on the personalities of band members and paid their 'rock star lifestyles. little heed, secretly guilty that my purchases would in some way only promote their lifestyles... LOL

Of course, much has changed over the decades and because most artistic proponents of prog are probably as broke as we are, my stance has softened considerably on this front.

I don't know how you feel Yogev, but I was actually visibly moved when I saw Orphaned Land perform Mabool in 2006, because of their back story in trying to make their brand of Progressive Symph/Death Metal a unifying force against many odds in your homeland.. that did spur me on to support the band because of who they were...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 07:55
Originally posted by Woon Deadn Woon Deadn wrote:

I have decided it very clear for me that anything modern in prog/hard rock music is alien to me, per definition. As well as any serious modern writers. If the band existed in the 1970s - I am more than eager to listen to it, even if its music sucked. 

Subsonsciously and perhaps even consciously I feel that there were the times when the trees were nicer and the water was bluer. And I want to be part of those times' atmosphere. I want to soak that atmosphere. Or the atmosphere to soak me in. Or both. 

Hi,

I think that in those days we had something to fight for, and agree on. Today, with mass commercialization, so much is trivial that not enough matters to anyone, and then ... the music and social combines reflect that ... I mean, look at it ... what is worth fighting for, your right to choice or a long song about ____________? 

The times, and places, normally, are what helped create the "scenes" that we love so much, and the real truth behind it, is for you to look at film, theater, literature and other arts ... and they are doing the same thing. Today, with media commercialization, this is impossible until the media controls get hacked and changed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 07:34
Songs/albums first, band second.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 01:53
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

I'm a musician, and the correct answer, of course, is "bands."

There's not such an objective "correct answer" here. The bands are not our relatives, friends, and/or loved ones. If someone is my relative, I might accept them as they are. Or can try to be good with him/her even if that person's "personality" changes in a bad way (for me).

I would never do that for the bands. If they do albums that I don't appreciate, I simply won't "try" to like or appreciate them. I'd still appreciate their albums that I liked and continue to cherish their "grand days".

I'm so far very lucky that none of my favourite artists turned into/out to be an a****le as a person. Hahahah. That should be very painful for a person seeing that his/her idol is revealed to be a rapist and such.

Edited by Shadowyzard - December 07 2021 at 01:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 16:38
I'm a musician, and the correct answer, of course, is "bands." 

The music that we all enjoy cannot be produced without the proper chemistry.  Fripp and Zappa knew this.

It is a chicken & egg argument, but I find the musicians themselves to be inseparable from the product. 




Edited by cstack3 - December 06 2021 at 16:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 12:47
Originally posted by Woon Deadn Woon Deadn wrote:

Subsonsciously and perhaps even consciously I feel that there were the times when the trees were nicer and the water was bluer. And I want to be part of those times' atmosphere. I want to soak that atmosphere. Or the atmosphere to soak me in. Or both. 

It could be myself written those words, Woon D., even I like quite a lot of post-70's music, as well.


Edited by David_D - December 07 2021 at 09:44
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 11:52
^ Much of the music I like to listen to (both prog and non-prog) was made pre-1980. There is so much good stuff which which I keep discovering from that era, and am amazed at all the almost unknown gems of albums that I continue to find.


Edited by Progishness - December 06 2021 at 11:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woon Deadn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 11:40
I have decided it very clear for me that anything modern in prog/hard rock music is alien to me, per definition. As well as any serious modern writers. If the band existed in the 1970s - I am more than eager to listen to it, even if its music sucked. 

Subsonsciously and perhaps even consciously I feel that there were the times when the trees were nicer and the water was bluer. And I want to be part of those times' atmosphere. I want to soak that atmosphere. Or the atmosphere to soak me in. Or both. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushaholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 10:10
[/QUOTE]

Hi,

After a concert with King Crimson in Seattle (w/ 3 drummers), my friend on the way out to get the car stated that ... "this puts a new meaning in what is music!"

[/QUOTE]

was able to see KC concerts in Seattle in 2017.  i think all part of the radical action tour.  amazing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 09:39
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

...
It seems right "but the QUALITY of the work" are albums?

Something else, I do somehow find KC done more important in comparison with some other bands than they have deserved - can evaluation like that be done objectively?

Hi,

After a concert with King Crimson in Seattle (w/ 3 drummers), my friend on the way out to get the car stated that ... "this puts a new meaning in what is music!"

I'm not sure there is objectivity here, but one must accept and understand the quality of the rehearsals and study that ensures that KC is at the top of its game. IN that sense it is more like classical music, but we don't know, or understand that comparison. 

Thus, the "total" of the music is important, not one album! And when the group/band/composer can not only show it, but also continue to make it better ... you know the answer. One "album" or one hit wonders, or one album favorites die hard at that moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 07:44
It's a combination of the two for me, but ultimately it's the albums that do the *talking.

*or singing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 06:54
In the end, it is the music that is most important for me, for that is precisely why I like a band and consider them worth it, not their "look" or "image", or anything else, really.
     My favorite band is Triumvirat, and they split back in early 1981, and their leader, Juergen Fritz, except for an abortive attempt at a comeback album in 2002, has totally distanced himself from "Triumvirat the band", but none of that stops me from them being my favorite, the thing that hooks me is their music which thrills me as much as when I first discovered it in the spring of 1985.
                 My other favorites, Giger Lenz Marron, Dzyan, Passport, except for Passport, are also long gone in terms of recordings, and touring, but that is ok; I have the music, and am grateful to say I do.


Edited by presdoug - December 06 2021 at 06:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 04:25
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

My favourite band for some time has been Emerson, Lake and Palmer. They were a great live band and produced some massively important music that doesn't need listing by me. They were innovative, exciting and brave as a band. Other artists looked and took note of them. 

I certainly like to hear praising ELP because I can at least think of them as a band which has made 5 albums I'm fond/very fond of, and I surely have some special feelings for them.
Trilogy was my very first Prog album which I got at the age of 15. I've never got tired of listening to ELP albums, on the contrary, I've become more fond of them over the years, and I find ELP as a very important Prog pioneering band, as well (you've heard that before).


Edited by David_D - December 07 2021 at 02:37
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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