How Did Ulver Get Pegged "Post Rock/Math Rock"? |
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14589 |
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Posted: December 10 2021 at 08:15 |
^ The problem is that only a couple early albums were black metal and not progressive. They also had a neofolk album that was not progressive. What got them included was the electronic albums that came later which completely abandoned the metal. I've always seen them more as experimental electronic than progressive rock. Personally i don't think they really belong here at all. Most later albums are ambient, glitch, trip hop, IDM, modern classical, post-industrial, ambient pop, chamber music, art rock, art pop, psychedelic rock, drone and even synthpop. No idea what got them added here but there are countless other bands of the same ilk who are not here.
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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They are already in PA. I think if they need to be moved at all (and that’s arguable), then I would really like to see them moved to Experimental/Post Metal where there are other bands similar to them, and a great many bands influenced by them. |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13320 |
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I've never heard Ulver, so I can't say. I'll toss the request to the team.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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LakeGlade12
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 29 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 179 |
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Yeah while they have some Post-rock material that is not the bulk of their discovery at all. Either Eclectic or Experimental/post metal would suit them much better. I would personally go for the latter, as they follow a similar trend to Anathema, who were fully metal for their first few albums and after that became more cross-over Prog with metal influences. However their metal years were very influencial so they still often get put into the metal groups many years into their career, and are still Experimental/ Post metal. Ulver's debut and third album are very important to the metal community, and PA should represent that. Of course they have had important albums later on (which is why I'm fine with Eclectic) but at the moment Post-rock is a terrible description of this band and on the key albums that matter.
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Man With Hat
Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
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^ I would agree, experimental/post metal would be the best spot for them. (And as an aside, that also had a decent chance of not existing at the time Ulver was added.)
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Experimental/Post Metal is where I would put them, according to the PA genre definitions. They don’t really fit perfectly in within any PA genre, but every album has been based upon metal conventions. There are both plenty of bands heavily influenced by Ulver residing in the Exp/PM category; and bands that experiment with metal conventions in similarly unexpected ways.
I don’t really have a problem with them being in the Post/Math genre on PA, though. They fit there better than Eclectic or Electronic, which seem to be two genres suggested for them here, that I don’t think particularly appropriate - and certainly less so than where they are right now. Also, when it comes down to it, so long as an artist is here, does it really matter that much where they are? There are so many inconsistencies and anomalies in the PA genres, that it would be a never-ending job to try and sort it all out, and put artists where they “belong” - not least, because many do fit into more than one genre (or don’t readily fit into any), that it becomes no less subjective than defining what is or isn’t prog. Sometimes a pragmatic decision is made, to include a band under one PA genre, simply to ensure they are included in PA. No team would say yes to including a band or artist if they didn’t think that they fitted the PA definition for that genre, but sometimes they might say yes for a borderline case, where the band might not fit any better elsewhere. Ulver has enough post rock in their music for me to not be concerned about them being in Post/Math. Yes, I think they’d probably make more sense in Exp/Post - but I seem to be the first to suggest that here, which again shows how subjective this all is. |
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Man With Hat
Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
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I suppose it depends on when they were added. That middle period does have some relations to minimalism and a general postrock 'vibe' (albeit not in the godspeed type of way) sometimes that it may have been the place that seemed to make the most sense at the time. Electronic is usually reserved for things related to the berlin scene/Kosmische music (especially back then) and its quite possible that eclectic didn't exist at the time.
Obviously, I wasn't involved in the adding process, so I don't know any of the particulars and I'm not sure any of the people who were on that team at the time are still around these days, so it may remain conjecture.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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Zeph
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 16 2014 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 557 |
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A good example of how tagging bands with genres is challenging. Do you use their original material, their later or the category where most of the albums fall? Their musical output has quite the span, so as a band you can’t really put them into one box. If anything, a box that is meant to catch a variety of styles perhaps, but is eclectic right if the music doesn’t necessarily touch on many different genres on the same album, but they go from death metal on one album to electronic later? Not mixing death metal and electronic. I haven’t listened to all their albums, so I don’t know how eclectic one might find individual albums, but it’s something to consider.
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 40762 |
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they started as black metal but switched to experimental electronic music of sorts.
On metalstorm, they're classified as electronic avant-garde for that era of the band. I don't know where they can be moved to though. Electronic or eclectic possibly.
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Necrotica
Special Collaborator Honorary Colaborator Joined: July 28 2015 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 3204 |
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Perhaps
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Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14589 |
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They slept with the site owners
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Necrotica
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I completely agree that either of those tags would be better than post/math rock. Honestly, I get the sense that people didn't know where to even put them because of how many crazy stylistic changes they've gone through. Personally, I think eclectic would be the best fit for them.
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Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
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BrufordFreak
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I've wondered this for a long time. Now that I'm exploring their origins--finding that they were almost universally considered a "Black Metal" band in the 1990s--I'm really curious as to why no team but Post Rock/Math Rock would welcome them into the fold.
That being said, perhaps a re-assignment to "Eclectic" or even "Progressive Electronic" would suit them (and us) better. |
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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