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How Did Ulver Get Pegged "Post Rock/Math Rock"?

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BrufordFreak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How Did Ulver Get Pegged "Post Rock/Math Rock"?
    Posted: December 08 2021 at 16:41
I've wondered this for a long time. Now that I'm exploring their origins--finding that they were almost universally considered a "Black Metal" band in the 1990s--I'm really curious as to why no team but Post Rock/Math Rock would welcome them into the fold.

That being said, perhaps a re-assignment to "Eclectic" or even "Progressive Electronic" would suit them (and us) better.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2021 at 16:55
I completely agree that either of those tags would be better than post/math rock. Honestly, I get the sense that people didn't know where to even put them because of how many crazy stylistic changes they've gone through. Personally, I think eclectic would be the best fit for them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2021 at 17:06
They slept with the site owners

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2021 at 17:11
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

They slept with the site owners

Perhaps LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2021 at 00:13
they started as black metal but switched to experimental electronic music of sorts. 

On metalstorm, they're classified as electronic avant-garde for that era of the band. 

I don't know where they can be moved to though.  Electronic or eclectic possibly. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2021 at 01:18
A good example of how tagging bands with genres is challenging. Do you use their original material, their later or the category where most of the albums fall? Their musical output has quite the span, so as a band you canít really put them into one box. If anything, a box that is meant to catch a variety of styles perhaps, but is eclectic right if the music doesnít necessarily touch on many different genres on the same album, but they go from death metal on one album to electronic later? Not mixing death metal and electronic. I havenít listened to all their albums, so I donít know how eclectic one might find individual albums, but itís something to consider.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2021 at 01:47
I suppose it depends on when they were added. That middle period does have some relations to minimalism and a general postrock 'vibe' (albeit not in the godspeed type of way) sometimes that it may have been the place that seemed to make the most sense at the time. Electronic is usually reserved for things related to the berlin scene/Kosmische music (especially back then) and its quite possible that eclectic didn't exist at the time. 

Obviously, I wasn't involved in the adding process, so I don't know any of the particulars and I'm not sure any of the people who were on that team at the time are still around these days, so it may remain conjecture. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2021 at 02:23
Experimental/Post Metal is where I would put them, according to the PA genre definitions. They donít really fit perfectly in within any PA genre, but every album has been based upon metal conventions. There are both plenty of bands heavily influenced by Ulver residing in the Exp/PM category; and bands that experiment with metal conventions in similarly unexpected ways.

I donít really have a problem with them being in the Post/Math genre on PA, though. They fit there better than Eclectic or Electronic, which seem to be two genres suggested for them here, that I donít think particularly appropriate - and certainly less so than where they are right now.

Also, when it comes down to it, so long as an artist is here, does it really matter that much where they are? There are so many inconsistencies and anomalies in the PA genres, that it would be a never-ending job to try and sort it all out, and put artists where they ďbelongĒ - not least, because many do fit into more than one genre (or donít readily fit into any), that it becomes no less subjective than defining what is or isnít prog. Sometimes a pragmatic decision is made, to include a band under one PA genre, simply to ensure they are included in PA. No team would say yes to including a band or artist if they didnít think that they fitted the PA definition for that genre, but sometimes they might say yes for a borderline case, where the band might not fit any better elsewhere.

Ulver has enough post rock in their music for me to not be concerned about them being in Post/Math. Yes, I think theyíd probably make more sense in Exp/Post - but I seem to be the first to suggest that here, which again shows how subjective this all is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2021 at 02:32
^ I would agree, experimental/post metal would be the best spot for them. (And as an aside, that also had a decent chance of not existing at the time Ulver was added.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LakeGlade12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2021 at 04:24
Yeah while they have some Post-rock material that is not the bulk of their discovery at all. Either Eclectic or Experimental/post metal would suit them much better. I would personally go for the latter, as they follow a similar trend to Anathema, who were fully metal for their first few albums and after that became more cross-over Prog with metal influences. However their metal years were very influencial so they still often get put into the metal groups many years into their career, and are still Experimental/ Post metal.

Ulver's debut and third album are very important to the metal community, and PA should represent that. Of course they have had important albums later on (which is why I'm fine with Eclectic) but at the moment Post-rock is a terrible description of this band and on the key albums that matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2021 at 22:22
I've never heard Ulver, so I can't say. I'll toss the request to the team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2021 at 01:11
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

I've never heard Ulver, so I can't say. I'll toss the request to the team.

They are already in PA. I think if they need to be moved at all (and thatís arguable), then I would really like to see them moved to Experimental/Post Metal where there are other bands similar to them, and a great many bands influenced by them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2021 at 08:15
^ The problem is that only a couple early albums were black metal and not progressive. They also had a neofolk album that was not progressive. What got them included was the electronic albums that came later which completely abandoned the metal.

I've always seen them more as experimental electronic than progressive rock. Personally i don't think they really belong here at all.

Most later albums are ambient, glitch, trip hop, IDM, modern classical, post-industrial, ambient pop, chamber music, art rock, art pop, psychedelic rock, drone and even synthpop.

No idea what got them added here but there are countless other bands of the same ilk who are not here. 

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