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UncleRust View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UncleRust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog metal and jazz
    Posted: December 23 2021 at 07:08
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Maybe you have to be open to the possibility of hearing certain music in a different way.

Yes, I quite agree that would help.  Openness to any topic would help in understanding, and possibly appreciating it.


Edited by UncleRust - December 23 2021 at 07:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UncleRust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2021 at 07:05
It is not really about what I view as a type, but rather what any individual would think of.  There is likely some variety, I imagine.

The way I was thinking, 'type' would probably indicate a genre or some other way of categorizing a specific piece of music.  The point I am trying to make is that I know people who intentionally limit their experiences, mostly out of fear or disinterest.  That tends to make those specific people a little less interesting to talk to about music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2021 at 03:39
Originally posted by UncleRust UncleRust wrote:

My theory - People that listen exclusively to any type of music are either intolerant of things they have not yet experienced or disinterested in music.
 
What do you regard as a "type" of music?
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2021 at 02:23
^ Maybe you have to be open to the possibility of hearing certain music in a different way.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote UncleRust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2021 at 16:10
Crimson are a great example of a band who combined many styles & Fripp is one of the greats in my opinion.

Personally, I like Metal, Jazz, and Fusion (as well as many other genres).  All depends upon mood and whether my wife is likely to judge me harshly at the moment I am putting something on.

Growing up, Thelonius Monk had as much influence on me as did Iron Maiden and Yes.  When I started learning musical instruments I became obsessed with Al DiMeola and Bill Bruford, but pure enjoyment of any specific music or genre for me is always related to the emotional impact it has on me.

My theory - People that listen exclusively to any type of music are either intolerant of things they have not yet experienced or disinterested in music.  Doesn't make them bad people necessarily, but they are probably less interesting conversationalists.



Edited by UncleRust - December 22 2021 at 16:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2021 at 13:38
I always felt that Robert Fripp was perhaps the best to combine jazz and metal!!  His work on LTIA, S&BB and Red are perfect examples.  

I cannot think of another player in his league, although Dream Theater guitarist John Petrucci comes close!!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argentinfonico Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2021 at 13:09
Have you heard Exivious?

Edited by Argentinfonico - December 22 2021 at 13:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo_II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2021 at 12:56
I like it all jazz prog metal and beyond, especially any mix of those.
 
To me it’s all about some degree of uniqueness, preferably combined with some technical perfection, but that is not the most important. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2021 at 05:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2021 at 03:22
^ When it comes to covers of this, I prefer this one. In fact, I love this one!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2021 at 03:11
For the lolz:



Zubatto Syndicate rules.

Edited by Mascodagama - December 18 2021 at 03:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2021 at 11:51
I'm not sure which metal is the topic from OP, but I don't listen to anything extreme like death or black. As far as Progmetal, not as much as I used to but still listen to some of the older material. Bands like Mind Key, Circus Maximus, Pantommind that kinda stuff I still listen to, there are just so many bands that I don't have much time to appreciate them.

And as far as jazz, yea I listen to a lot of it....huge fan of Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers, I much prefer the hard bop, modal stuff from mid late 50s to early 60's. Late 60s into 70s it became more electronic with guitars and electric piano, which that sound does not interest me much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2021 at 11:00
As I have said before, Metal is not my favorite genre even though I can enjoy it on occasion and have respect when I hear good musicianship. To me, much of it sounds the same and there are only so many ways you can get that crunchy guitar sound. There is no shame in liking it. I am definitely more of a Jazz/Rock Fusion listener as I am a rocker at base but also need to hear virtuosity. I listen to a lot of straight Jazz. Metal is a kind of folk music in that there are specific characteristics to it. Blues also has some specific characteristics, so I consider it another kind of folk. Even though I like the Blues, I will admit much of it sounds the same. As the OP said, there is an ethos to it. A better word might be aesthetics, for there is a certain artistic perspective that comes with every genre of music. Metal tends towards the raw, the emotional (especially anger), while Jazz tends towards sophistication and the intellect. Does this mean there is no level of sophistication and intellect in Metal? Of course not, but those are secondary to the emotion. Does this mean there is no emotion in Jazz? One cannot say so in all seriousness. It is a matter of what is emphasized. Ying YangGeek
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2021 at 07:52
Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

I personally can’t see any appeal in anything remotely metal related - the whole ethos just turns me off, I’m afraid. One thing I have noticed though is a lot of metal fans are not keen on jazz or fusion (both of which I love). Any views/ thoughts?!?!


Don't really get your drift. There are many of us who equally love jazz and metal and the two mixed together.


Edited by siLLy puPPy - December 17 2021 at 11:57

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2021 at 06:33
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

I know I’m going to get pilloried for this but I think metal is an attitude you choose to buy into. I personally don’t. There are so many things I dislike about it but each to their own. 


Sure, to each their own.

You can like whatever you want. What you are more likely to get pilloried for is starting an entire thread without even so much as a summary or abstract to identify what empirical analysis led you to such blanket assertions as, "metal is an attitude you choose to buy into" or "...metal fans are not keen on jazz or fusion..." Do you have a foundation for these statements? Or is it just an arbitrary eye test that leads you to come and take a potshot at fans of a genre outside of your scope of enjoyment?



Given that Duddick’s only album ratings on PA are for extreme metal bands and are all one star ratings there does seem to be an axe being ground.


+25 for rounding out that statement in the most metal way possible.

And, Mr. Duddick. We all listen to and enjoy different types of music without a required subscription to some perceived aesthetic, as you have implied. However, if there is an "attitude to buy into" in all this, it would appear it is the one you have chosen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote PhideauxFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2021 at 02:56
I prefer classical music. But sometimes, I listen to Panzerballett (Germany) and Watchtower (USA) for example which put jazz in their metal style.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2021 at 01:42
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

I know I’m going to get pilloried for this but I think metal is an attitude you choose to buy into. I personally don’t. There are so many things I dislike about it but each to their own. 


Sure, to each their own.

You can like whatever you want. What you are more likely to get pilloried for is starting an entire thread without even so much as a summary or abstract to identify what empirical analysis led you to such blanket assertions as, "metal is an attitude you choose to buy into" or "...metal fans are not keen on jazz or fusion..." Do you have a foundation for these statements? Or is it just an arbitrary eye test that leads you to come and take a potshot at fans of a genre outside of your scope of enjoyment?


so well said. 
I bet these are questions you (and us) will not get an answer to. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2021 at 01:23
Have to admit I love the Liquid Tension Experiment and Animals as Leaders albums. Beyond that I haven't explored because I'm not a big fusion , metal or jazz rock fan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2021 at 01:15
Dude wtf, I love both fusion and metal, and can hardly find anyone that agrees.

I love Pestilence SPHERES as much as I love Gorguts EROSION and OBSCURA.

There's a fine line between technical metal and fusion, and a lot of the classic 70's stuff could legit pass as borderline death metal passages. Lots of Gentle Giant and Yes stuff comes to mind here.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2021 at 00:28
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

I know I’m going to get pilloried for this but I think metal is an attitude you choose to buy into. I personally don’t. There are so many things I dislike about it but each to their own. 


Sure, to each their own.

You can like whatever you want. What you are more likely to get pilloried for is starting an entire thread without even so much as a summary or abstract to identify what empirical analysis led you to such blanket assertions as, "metal is an attitude you choose to buy into" or "...metal fans are not keen on jazz or fusion..." Do you have a foundation for these statements? Or is it just an arbitrary eye test that leads you to come and take a potshot at fans of a genre outside of your scope of enjoyment?



Given that Duddick’s only album ratings on PA are for extreme metal bands and are all one star ratings there does seem to be an axe being ground.

Edited by Mascodagama - December 17 2021 at 00:28
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