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Can a non Italian band be RPI?
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 08 2022 at 09:49
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

No, because RPI isn't even a real subgenre. It's simply a special category for mostly symphonic prog from Italy. Personally i don't think it should exist and band's like Area certainly shouldn't be in it at all but this was established way before i ever found the site so it adds an interesting flavor to the site. You will notice that EVERY artist listed in that category is from Italy.
I understand where you're coming from. I think. But I'm quite happy with RPI. Its practical. Except when bands like Area - which obviously belongs in either Avant/RIO or Jazz-Rock Fusion are placed in RPI just because they are an italian band.
I think the creation of RPI as a genre reflects the tremendous level of respect we have for the quality and originality of that limited sphere of bands. It really can’t be recreated properly outside that sphere, almost by definition. I’m glad we have it, it’s a frequent reminder of how special it is/can be.

Of course, that argument begs the counter-argument of “well, then why not a separate designation for every country with an active prog scene, like Sweden?” To which I say, “I have to go now.”

Lol. Well, there is "Krautrock" but I think there should be a better term. Not all German prog is Krautrock just like not all Italian prog is RPI. But my initial question was wondering how much all of that has to do with the country vs the sound. In my opinion if we are talking about a sound then the country's name should not be mentioned or implied. Therefore I think there should be other names for these subgenres or else not make it limited to having to be from one specific country. However, that's not say you can't say something like Swedish prog, American prog, South American prog, etc. The difference is that these aren't considered genres (or subgenres) and shouldn't be. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 08 2022 at 09:50
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

No, because RPI isn't even a real subgenre. It's simply a special category for mostly symphonic prog from Italy. Personally i don't think it should exist and band's like Area certainly shouldn't be in it at all but this was established way before i ever found the site so it adds an interesting flavor to the site. You will notice that EVERY artist listed in that category is from Italy.
I understand where you're coming from. I think. But I'm quite happy with RPI. Its practical. Except when bands like Area - which obviously belongs in either Avant/RIO or Jazz-Rock Fusion are placed in RPI just because they are an italian band.
I think the creation of RPI as a genre reflects the tremendous level of respect we have for the quality and originality of that limited sphere of bands. It really can’t be recreated properly outside that sphere, almost by definition. I’m glad we have it, it’s a frequent reminder of how special it is/can be.

Of course, that argument begs the counter-argument of “well, then why not a separate designation for every country with an active prog scene, like Sweden?” To which I say, “I have to go now.”

Edited by HolyMoly - April 04 2022 at 12:19
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Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

If these guys aren't Italian, then, Yes, there is such thing as a non-Italian RPI band.
 
On the other hand, if they were misidentified as Italian, then it could be said that their RPI classification was an error.
 


I listened to the album. It sounds RPI to me. I own 300 RPI albums. Classic and Modern. 
That said, I would rate this album a two.  However, if the members must live in Italy and be Italian, then perhaps it is NOT RPI.  

Depends on the definition of RPI.
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Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

If these guys aren't Italian, then, Yes, there is such thing as a non-Italian RPI band.
 
On the other hand, if they were misidentified as Italian, then it could be said that their RPI classification was an error.
 
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Originally posted by andrea andrea wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

There are non English Canterbury bands on here and non german Krautrock bands so why not non Italian RPI bands? I get the feeling there aren't any on here though.


Yes, this is one. Although wrongly listed as coming from Italy on PA, they're from Japan:


Well, their Italian pronunciation is very rough...


Little is known about this mysterious group, whose only good album often changed hands for incredible prices before people started to realise it's not a real Italian 70's rarity. Even the year of recording is uncertain. Some say it is from 1974-75, and for this reason it's included here, but it seems more likely that it came out in the second half of the 80's or early 90's.
The album was printed in Canada with a German producer, the music is good organ and mellotron-led prog sung in Italian with a strong foreign accent and often incomprehensible lyrics: this is almost certainly a foreign group, probably Japanese, playing under fake Italian names, and even the incredibly high number of errors in the cover notes and lyrics confirms this impression.


We can depend on Italian expert Andrea to find a non-Italian RPI band.  If these guys aren't Italian, then, Yes, there is such thing as a non-Italian RPI band.  Well, I vote yes. 


Edited by omphaloskepsis - April 03 2022 at 16:31
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Pretty much every country's Prog bands carry the lineage of their indigenous origin somewhere in their music (plus the Italians are very persuasive lobbyists)
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Can we at least give RPI a more interesting title?

Like Pasta prog or something?

Btw that’s a compliment!

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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Italian approaches to almost any genre tend to be unique. Italian opera being a good example. I'm a fan of Italian soundtrack jazz, its a style unique to Italian jazz and RnB musicians. Spaghetti western soundtracks are a uniquely Italian style that did get copied by film composers outside of Italy.

Now one can agree with every single word of this post without getting into a row about this sub-genre, or that sub-genre.

I love Italian culture, and John is absolutely right about this. I smiled when reading the spaghetti western bit, and am just about to put on some Leone for a couple of hours. Sheer heaven!
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Points: 10333 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2022 at 12:46
Italian approaches to almost any genre tend to be unique. Italian opera being a good example. I'm a fan of Italian soundtrack jazz, its a style unique to Italian jazz and RnB musicians. Spaghetti western soundtracks are a uniquely Italian style that did get copied by film composers outside of Italy.
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Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

The reasons why this controversial subgenre was created are expressed in the introduction we wrote for it back in the day. Now you can disagree with the premises - and everyone has the right to do so - but you cannot say we did not try to explain our decision. If you bother to read that piece of writing, you'll also understand why Area was included, even though musically they are quite different from the majority of the bands included in RPI.

Personally, I couldn't care less if you decided to scrap the whole thing and dump all the bands in Symphonic or wherever you want to have them. All the bickering about subgenres, and the constant rehashing of the same topics, have turned me off not just this site, but the whole prog scene as well.



mmmhhh!!!...

RPI is here to stay (I'd fight for it nowadays)Approve , just like Eclectic (unfortunately Unhappy) or Crossover Stern Smile

these topics keep reoccuring and it's cyclical (the half-star ratings or multi-gentre tagging  issues should pop up again soon)

.


Edited by Sean Trane - April 02 2022 at 11:55
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I always thought RPI is more than just a music genre, more like a scene. Also that the singing needed to be done in Italian. 

I don't think all RPI albums are sung in Italian though. Is that a qualification?

I thought so LOL. It makes sense. Smile

Well, not all Krautrock bands sing in German. Also, what if the non Italian bands sings in Italian? Wink

Maybe I'm wrong, like I said it's what I thought.
Raff, Lorenzo and Andrea could be of help here. And the collabs in the RPI team. 

ERIS PLUVIA is classed as RPI and they sing in English.  Same with their related bands ANCIENT VEIL and NARROW PASS.  Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head but there may well be others.  Now, I personally don't consider their style to be RPI, and think they would fit better in prog folk or symphonic, but whatever  Tongue
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I think someone should make an RPI band and sing in Albanian. Let's see if it makes it on the site LOL

I think such a thing is possible. Singing in Italian is not a precondition (Il Trono dei Ricordi sing in English). If such a band exists or will come into being, they probably come from here. There may be found some former Allium members as well Wink.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

There are non English Canterbury bands on here and non german Krautrock bands so why not non Italian RPI bands? I get the feeling there aren't any on here though.


Yes, this is one. Although wrongly listed as coming from Italy on PA, they're from Japan:


Well, their Italian pronunciation is very rough...


Little is known about this mysterious group, whose only good album often changed hands for incredible prices before people started to realise it's not a real Italian 70's rarity. Even the year of recording is uncertain. Some say it is from 1974-75, and for this reason it's included here, but it seems more likely that it came out in the second half of the 80's or early 90's.
The album was printed in Canada with a German producer, the music is good organ and mellotron-led prog sung in Italian with a strong foreign accent and often incomprehensible lyrics: this is almost certainly a foreign group, probably Japanese, playing under fake Italian names, and even the incredibly high number of errors in the cover notes and lyrics confirms this impression.



Edited by andrea - April 02 2022 at 09:33
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I think someone should make an RPI band and sing in Albanian. Let's see if it makes it on the site LOL

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The reasons why this controversial subgenre was created are expressed in the introduction we wrote for it back in the day. Now you can disagree with the premises - and everyone has the right to do so - but you cannot say we did not try to explain our decision. If you bother to read that piece of writing, you'll also understand why Area was included, even though musically they are quite different from the majority of the bands included in RPI.

Personally, I couldn't care less if you decided to scrap the whole thing and dump all the bands in Symphonic or wherever you want to have them. All the bickering about subgenres, and the constant rehashing of the same topics, have turned me off not just this site, but the whole prog scene as well.

Anyway, a lot of RPI-inspired bands come from Japan, where the subgenre (or whatever it is) is still quite popular. Take this one for instance - even their name is Italian: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1367


Edited by Raff - April 02 2022 at 06:05
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Yes RPI and Neo Prog could be classified has symphonic prog and modern symphonic prog. Sometimes I don't feel comfortable when it comes to evaluate if a band is in RPI category. He rely on instinct and not science...
The native language make it easier to decide, some RPI bands could be simply symphonic bands singing in Italian and it is possible on the other way around that non singing Italian symphonic bands sounds RPI. You have to work a lot with categories to know at the end that it' not "black and white". Or maybe we have invented the RPI category to save up some work to the symphonic team...Wink
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I have noticed that it is more difficult for a non-Italian band to be tagged as RPI than it is for a non-German band to be filed under Krautrock or a band outside the southeast of England to be partof the Canterbury Scene.

We all know that there is some overlap between subgenres, but RPI is a niche in which all bands have one thing in common: they are from Italy. Some great Italian bands can be found under Eclectic, though...
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Some Spanish or Argentinian (an Italian country if there was a sercond one on the planet) bands do sound Italian Symphonic enough to almost merit the RPI 

Indeed. Hence this quote from one of my recent(ish) reviews:

“At times the guitars and keys are reminiscent of classic Italian prog bands, too (rather than the usual suspects from the UK), and if I didn’t know any better, and wasn’t paying close enough attention, I could easily believe this was the music of an Italian artist, rather than Brazilian.“
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Some Spanish or Argentinian (an Italian country if there was a sercond one on the planet) bands do sound Italian Symphonic enough to almost merit the RPI


Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

No, because RPI isn't even a real subgenre. It's simply a special category for mostly symphonic prog from Italy. Personally i don't think it should exist and band's like Area certainly shouldn't be in it at all but this was established way before i ever found the site so it adds an interesting flavor to the site. You will notice that EVERY artist listed in that category is from Italy.


I opposed the RPI creation, because most of the bands were symphonic 

some bands were even withdrawn from other genres (Area being indeed the most shocking) to beef it up, but outside that major  Arreor error, I have no qualms about the rest of the bands in there. 

I mean, it's not like Deus Ex Machina, Stormy Six, Pierrot Lunaire, Saint Just or DFA are in RPI - so I can live with it.

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Why isn't there an RPF (Rock Progresif Francais) or RPE (Rock Progressivo Español) or similar subs for Russian prog, Swedish prog etc?
I think that may be because the Italian scene is significant enough to have its own subgenre.



Nah!! It was mostly an ego thing - some non-italian collabs wanting to have it their way.

Even an Italian collab was originally opposed to its creation at first , but was lobbied away by love by one of them.Wink





Edited by Sean Trane - April 02 2022 at 02:44
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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