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Collaborative music project ?

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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Collaborative music project ?
    Posted: April 05 2022 at 02:51
I know this isn't going to work..... ;-)

How about a collaborative music section on PA ? 

We all complain about the lack of new music, and the lack of decent musicians to play with. Yet here we are on a board full of musicians, all with internet connections, dropboxes, video links....... 

Yes, there are other music collaboration sites on the internet, but not prog ones. If anything's going to happen, here's a good place to make it happen. 

What do we all think ? "Have Mellotron, seek others ? " 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2022 at 03:01
You’re probably right, but how awesome would it be if you were wrong? 🤗

I’d definitely be up for hearing the results of a PA collaboration….

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2022 at 03:17
I think it sounds great.   I'm not an active player anymore, but many here are.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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JD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2022 at 05:16
Sign me up as lyricist. Thumbs Up
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2022 at 06:29
Dibs on producer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2022 at 08:36
I would love to participate if it will actually happened.
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2022 at 03:25
Me too. ;-)

I've done a few collab projects before and released compilation albums from other artists. 

Where it usually falls apart is when everyone uses different equipment or doesn't know how to record a track properly. 

I've got a website doing nothing, so I might convert it into a progressive rock collaborative music site. What I do is - 

Record basic track(s) using Reaper
Other players get to download the rendered track(s)
They create a new project in Reaper - same time signature and BPM
Record their contribution onto a separate track - no effects
Render just that track and send it back. 

Somehow this seems technically beyond a lot of people. ;-) 
The arguments generally start when you either get three bassists, or one guitarist doesn't like what the keyboard player is doing, of course. ;-) 

If interested - drop me a DM with your e-mail address in and I'll respond in kind. ;-)

If you can't improvise or don't know one key signature from another, this may be a little "big boys" for you, though. ;-)



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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2022 at 03:31
One thing I'll absolutely insist on, though - 

NO MONEY 
Strictly a free release. 


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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2022 at 09:27
I think the way to do it is to set up a site, put some example tracks on and then ask for people to audition. 

So that's what I'll do. Don't wait up, though, I've got a hectic diary the next few weekends. Or so Mrs F informs me. ;-) 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2022 at 17:44
So, as PA Collaborators official (or non-existent) lyricist and evil genius behind the camera, I'm proposing a concept album of sorts.
Working title - The Beasts Bite Back
Overview of concept - Betrayals and Misjudgements
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote PaulG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2022 at 18:08
Excellent idea. I haven’t played a note on my Gibson SG in over 10 years. This would be a good excuse to pick it up and play again. I would need to obtain some recording equipment and it would be well worth it. I’ve been looking for an excuse to pick up my axe. I miss playing. It’s never to late.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2022 at 02:19
Let me explain what one of the big hurdles is with doing a project like this: apart from all the peccadillos of dealing with other musicians, you have to find someone who can play an instrument to a high standard, thinks along the same lines as you do ........

..... and knows how to use a DAW. More specifically, the DAW you're using. And can use it well. 

Musicians tend to record using a bewildering variety of equipment, so you'll get someone with the latest version of Cubase on one hand, and someone else with an old Portastudio on the other. With everything inbetween. 

With this in mind, working collaboratively, you have to insist on everyone using one DAW, in my case, the latest version of Reaper. DAW's are not always easy to set up or use, and you really need a lot of experience to get the best out of them. 

For example, if I said "Here's the keyboard part, 4/4, 104 bpm, project file is <here> - download it, bass comes in at bar 120, finishes bar 156, record the bass track from that point and send the individual bass part back, no other tracks, with no effects in WAV format.... " most musicians are going to go eh ? 

There isn't time to give someone a tutorial, either they can do it or they can't. 

Invariably, you get a bass part coming back which has been very badly recorded and distorts to hell and back. 

So there's another hurdle to get over. You can have the best musicians in the world, but if they're technically incompetent, nothing goes anywhere. You can't learn how to use a DAW overnight, it takes a long, long time to get the best out of one. 

You have to have one person used to producing music who's highly skilled in DAW use who oversees everything. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2022 at 02:19
And this is what I use. I actually prefer it to Cubase. 

And it's free. 

https://www.reaper.fm/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2022 at 02:27
Count me in as a keyboardist or vocalist Big smile
Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground
Why oh why, there is no light
And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life

https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2022 at 02:30
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

So, as PA Collaborators official (or non-existent) lyricist and evil genius behind the camera, I'm proposing a concept album of sorts.
Working title - The Beasts Bite Back
Overview of concept - Betrayals and Misjudgements


JD, I hate to break it to you gently, but I don't think any album in the history of prog rock has been written by a lyricist. ;-) 

I don't do lyrics and I really don't do vocals. For a laugh once, I put up an advert on a vocalist forum asking for a lyricist to help put lyrics to an existing song. All I got back was rubbish. Someone, for example, thought that rhyming "smoke" with "Coke" made him a lyricist. ;-) 

The way musical creativity works in a group is that everyone plays off each other's musical ideas and sometimes a song pops out of the end of it. Most of the time, musicians don't have any musical ideas beyond a blues 1-4-5 and nothing comes out. 

If something does, then you add the lyrics. ;-) 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2022 at 02:31
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Count me in as a keyboardist or vocalist Big smile


Thank God for that, no one wants to hear me sing. ;-)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2022 at 02:37
This is why auditions are essential. 

"Just send me a track back with some ideas in it." 

And either someone can or can't. So there's the technical bit of the audition. 

You then reach the hurdle of "Musicians who can't improvise, or can only do so in a pentatonic minor. 

Try this. 
 F G G# B D

Improvise. ;-)

Actually, it's the notes from The Glorious Om Riff by Steve Hillage. In G. So it's nothing like a pentatonic or blues scale. You'll find that most musicians can not get their heads around improvising in unconventional scales as they spent most of their time playing tab, and not doing things like interval training. 

So. Two major hurdles. One, find the musician. Two. Find the musician with enough skills to improvise out of the box. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - April 07 2022 at 03:34

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ronstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2022 at 03:46
I'll try and put a lead guitar on that chord sequence (no promises though!!)
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2022 at 03:51
;-)
Right, that's my $0.02.

What I'll do is get the old content scrubbed off my website and put up some information there. Unfortunately, I'm honestly massively busy with other things, but I'll post the URL here when it's all set up. Everything will be explained on the website, so anyone interested, get in touch. ;-)

Open ended offer. There's a lot of talent here on PA, so why not use it ? We all complain about the lack of new music and lack of opportunities for musicians to jam with each other.... here we are, 21st century, all the technology there on a forum full of prog musicians. So let's give it a go. ;-)

I'm not stopping anyone else trying this, either. ;-) In fact, if we could ask the admins for a "collaborative music section" on PA, sort of a musician's dating board, that'd be very useful. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - April 07 2022 at 03:54

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JD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2022 at 07:46
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

So, as PA Collaborators official (or non-existent) lyricist and evil genius behind the camera, I'm proposing a concept album of sorts.
Working title - The Beasts Bite Back
Overview of concept - Betrayals and Misjudgements


JD, I hate to break it to you gently, but I don't think any album in the history of prog rock has been written by a lyricist. ;-) 

I don't do lyrics and I really don't do vocals. For a laugh once, I put up an advert on a vocalist forum asking for a lyricist to help put lyrics to an existing song. All I got back was rubbish. Someone, for example, thought that rhyming "smoke" with "Coke" made him a lyricist. ;-) 

The way musical creativity works in a group is that everyone plays off each other's musical ideas and sometimes a song pops out of the end of it. Most of the time, musicians don't have any musical ideas beyond a blues 1-4-5 and nothing comes out. 

If something does, then you add the lyrics. ;-) 

Clearly you missed my point. It all starts with an idea. Something that can anchor the musicians into a common place. That being said, I was going to post the question about how you envision the process unfolding. I've been involved with recording/production enough to know that most songs begin with a lick or melody that needs to be developed. Some begin with lyrics that need the melody to support that. Some begin with a rhythm that sparks the melody and in turn draws out the lyrics. To suggest that NO album ever began with lyrics is naive. I'm pretty sure Jim Morrison wrote his lyrics (poems) and the band supported them with their music, yes?
But hey, this is your project so you are certainly free to approach it any way you want.
So...what's your plan Stan?
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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