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Collaborative music project ?

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Megistus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Megistus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2024 at 15:39
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

I hope not, I've been crazy busy recently. Life happens, I keep meaning to add stuff to at least one of the songs

ditto for me!!

Not dead, just... 'coasting' :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 07:23
Ping...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2024 at 20:37
Ping...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2024 at 06:53
...reply  TTL=64 Big smile

I'm quite busy with my real job, at this moment, but sin case the project goes ahead, I'm sure I can find some spare time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2024 at 11:18
^Ditto

We still need a vocalist I think
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2024 at 22:26
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

^Ditto

We still need a vocalist I think

Hi,

Out of curiosity ... why a vocalist? You might find someone that reads poetry really well, and adds so much to the words, that makes it special. A "vocalist" only does the notes, and you hope they can pick things up and come together and believe the words, enough to convince us about it all ... that's asking a lot, specially if the person is an outsider, and in the situation here, lives in a different country ... well, it worked with Rachel Flowers doing Focus and other bands, but I think that is rare, and it was also very well rehearsed.

An example ... is someone trying to make it look like Jim M or Robert P. It's impossible, since how Jim worked was almost 100% poetry and the "acting" behind it is amazingly good ... you can tell they were film enthusiasts ... because almost all of their work is just like a film ... you can't miss it. Robert P., specially in his early days, was very much a fantasy for a lot of women, and he made it look like he would really participate with a lot of passion ... and you can not exactly duplicate that, because the "feel" is PERSONAL, and not canned, or acted out. 

There are some interesting examples, with various folks reading their material and sometimes adding to it ... Burroughs in Laurie Anderson is quite a treat, and if you read enough of his work, it is not exactly "different" from the way he writes. It has a very different and interesting flow. And later, most of it was taped, which was not as good as the originals. Another good example, is how NEKTAR has not been able to bring out the late Roye Albrighton  singing ... because it wasn't singing ... it was who he was and lived, and it was super personal in his experience. And at that point, it makes the effort to keep the band alive, interesting, but when hearing some of the things ... it's very sad ... the beauty of Roye's emotions and feeling is not there, and you could tell the words were about his heart.

And then there are the odd ones ... Amon Duul 2, uses anyone/everyone to say something and/or sing. The biggest constant was Chris Karrer, and his special delivery was completely "anti-lyrics" and it allowed for his attitude, that often comes out as cynicism, but it isn't ... it's a commentary. But when you hear things like Apocaliptyc Bore, you wonder where the vision comes from because the way the song is presented is way beyond anything, and staying with him did not seem to be a problem all the way to the ending duet with guitar and violin. Likewise, Renate is a problem that many don't like ... she comes off as vindictive and vicious, and then in another piece is smooth and soft and sad. And you can see a bit of the feminism in her words ... I think that she had to fight the band for being able to sing a bit more, but there are times when she does, and it is so strong, that it is impossible to not believe it ... but  the hard part here? NONE of these things are "conventional" in any shape or form, and that was what AD2 was all about ... but the words that one time appeared to be "psychedelic" all of a sudden are very real, and stand up ... because the band makes the words come alive ... it's not about "singing" ... it's about the expression.

The scary side for me, is how folks are so scared of using something different ... and are so tied up to a commercial standard for what music is, or a song should be. Give me some lyrics, and I will give you some ideas of how they can be interpreted, which would help the music identify the whole thing better, instead of it being second rate lyrics on top of a song, that has nothing to do with the lyrics, except for one person's idea. Trying to add a reality to that is not a good idea ... it usually falls flat.

A small note ... about acting. Peter Brook wrote many books on directing and working with actors. He toured King Lear for like 300+ performances, and during that one repetitive part in a soliloquy ... he says that Keith Michell never said it the same way over the course of the performances ... and that suggests that Keith was really good at being attuned to the MOMENT, and it wasn't about the words/lyrics ... it was about the feeling coming alive ... 

I simply do not think that anyone creating lyrics for a song ... can even imagine that insanity! Heck, might even try to get a 10 year old to do the words, or try to sing it ... it maybe magic in the end!

Sorry ... not trying to hijack the thread. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2024 at 12:31
Originally posted by Megistus Megistus wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

I hope not, I've been crazy busy recently. Life happens, I keep meaning to add stuff to at least one of the songs

ditto for me!!

Not dead, just... 'coasting' :)

Thanks Megistus for this special mix, Your Guitar in it, and the cool sound effects. I know I still owe you and will get right on it soon. In the meantime here is that weird song we worked on.

if there is a photo you would like on the bandcamp page for this song just email it to me. I just stuck a pic of my jackson on there for now.


Edited by Valdez - June 14 2024 at 12:32
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2024 at 02:07
I think the idea of this project can be considered dead. What if we choose a concept (a book, a story, whatever...) and each of us makes a track, like the Kalevala projects to say a thing?


I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2024 at 07:14
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

I think the idea of this project can be considered dead. What if we choose a concept (a book, a story, whatever...) and each of us makes a track, like the Kalevala projects to say a thing?


Hi,

We live in a time of "independence" and everyone has a better idea of how to do things on their own ... it's a wonder that rock bands come around, but most of them will die off tomorrow, so to speak, because of it.

I think that the idea was right, but it was clear right from the start how limited it was going to be, and one person simply wanting just this or that kinda gave it away, and when a "non-musician" makes a suggestion, the best some of those folks can do is ... take a hike. A perfect example and word for the whole thing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2024 at 07:46
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

I think the idea of this project can be considered dead. What if we choose a concept (a book, a story, whatever...) and each of us makes a track, like the Kalevala projects to say a thing?



Not a terrible idea
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2024 at 10:04
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

I think the idea of this project can be considered dead. What if we choose a concept (a book, a story, whatever...) and each of us makes a track, like the Kalevala projects to say a thing?


Not a terrible idea

Hi,

I'm not sure that a "concept" is a good idea ... I think that we can find a lot more within a complete improvisational piece, so that different folks can add something else, until it looks like ... wow ... we got something.

With this "freedom" a lot more "ideas" come around, although I prefer that folks treat an improvisation just like it is explained and defined, not with ideas from your head. In other words, don't listen to it first and go right into it as it starts so you get a clean feel from it ... and avoid touching it up as mistakes alone can add a lot more to many things than otherwise.

The only concern here, is folks being completely afraid to improvise and think that they have to have something under it all before they can do anything ... which tells you how mental the whole thing of sharing and learning, has become.

No concept and no ideas will likely get something done faster if people are willing to just try something they have not done before ... but very few musicians are strong enough to consider that option at all as far as I can see by the "ideas" thrown around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2024 at 23:39
It's the way I personally make my poor home-ade stuff. Having a concept in mind, even for just a 2 minutes track makes me focalize on the kind of sounds and progressions to explore. When I was a teen I tried to write songs. Chord progressions influenced lyrics and vice-versa. Now that I'm old and have fun with a DAW at home, I'm doing instrumentals only. Maybe it's only me, but I think to a story and make a sort of soundtrack. Unfortunately it can work only if who listens knows the story. Not a problem: usually I'm the only listener of my stuff LOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2024 at 06:56
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

...
Maybe it's only me, but I think to a story and make a sort of soundtrack. Unfortunately it can work only if who listens knows the story. Not a problem: usually I'm the only listener of my stuff LOL 

Hi,

This is always an issue for me ... what creates the music? Your imagination/dream seeing something, or you sitting down and thinking up some sort of ABC to begin something ... both processes bring up different results, however, hearing about folks trying to interpret what they see, specially here, is bizarre ... to me it is just like a new poem, and new words that come alive ... I don't have to think about it, and never do.

I wonder if we are "stuck" in an idea that supposedly makes something important or not ... thus we have to make use of our mind thoughts and ideas, in order to think/believe that we did something right ... I'm not convinced that is true at all ... 

You being the only listener, should not be an issue ... if you do something for your inner self, who gives a fudge about  anyone else listening to it ... as Peter Michael Hamel suggested in his book ... there was an old man on top of the mountain playing an instrument he made out of sticks and roots, and he was playing what we thought was the same note ... and he was saying with it, in a sort of singing way ... I GOT IT .. I GOT IT ... and we look at each other and go ... WHAT? We didn't even close our eyes and try to see the movie so we could get an idea of what he "got" ... we don't believe him at all because that is not "normal" like we are!

You have to play for you only, and if something happens from there, that's the new chapter in the novel!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2024 at 07:26
Just to clarify, it may be a soundtrack of a novel or a story imagined by me. Otherwise I can improvise something on an instrument until I find a passage that I like. This can later inspire lyrics (no longer in my own case) or just a link to a story or an idea. It's more or less what I mentally do when I listen to instrumentals, like i.e. Tangerine Dream or Vamgelis. I let their music create something in my mind, and sometimes it happens to e also with my own stuff. 

But once I have an idea, original or taken form somewhere, it helps me in making stuff in line with the feelings that the story gives me. Well I don't succeed very often, honestly. Should I have to rate my stuff I wouldn't go for more than 1-star. 
Regardless the quality, I have fun making it and sometimes I'm brave enough (or not shy enough) to share it. 

Of cource I don't pretend to compare myself with a masterpiece, but The Snow Goose is an instrumental made of original material inspired to somebody else's novel. This is an example of what I mean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2024 at 10:46
Hi all, back after a short break of a couple of years. ;-) (Just passing through.) 

Just briefly skimmed the replies here and, well, surprise, the collaborative project went nowhere. In the interim, I've done several collaborations with a bass playing friend of mine with absolutely no problems at all. 

This is how it works. 
(1) you agree on a DAW to use. It helps if you know how to use it. 
(2) You record all your material on one track. There's no need to mention time signatures, beats per minute or even key, it's all there in the DAW. 
(3) You zip the files up to someone and send it over to them. We Transfer etc etc for big files. 
(4) Most importantly, you trust what they're doing and leave their contribution to them. It can either be used or discarded. 
(5) They do their funky thang and record their audio on a separate track (which you set up for them) - no automation, no effects, that's for the mastering stage. 
(6) Involving more people ? Rinse and repeat. 
(7) Everyone then has a discussion - not an argument - about what stays in, what's faded out when etc etc. 
(8) You don't add to or edit a piece, it causes arguments and slow downs. You go with what you've got. 
(9) Mixing and mastering from there - end result, track done. 

It really is that simple. 

One of the problems I have with PA, and why I left, is that it's a forum where people incessantly pick apart everything and make it as complicated as possible. (That'll cause an argument. ;-) ) I'll probably get 101 pointless replies to this. It's not constructive. It's obstructive and guarantees nothing will happen.

I often think people using this forum will just sit there, and, with nothing to do, come up with some idiotic question like "Is Rogers and Hammerstein prog ?" - result, endless, pointless argument which has just been put up for the sake of something to do. 

Doing collab projects is simple, it doesn't require 7 pages and133 answers. You just do it. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2024 at 08:23
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Hi all, back after a short break of a couple of years. ;-) (Just passing through.) 
...
One of the problems I have with PA, and why I left, is that it's a forum where people incessantly pick apart everything and make it as complicated as possible. (That'll cause an argument. ;-) ) I'll probably get 101 pointless replies to this. It's not constructive. It's obstructive and guarantees nothing will happen.
...

Hi,

Nice to hear from you ... kinda miss not knowing or having music to listen to ... I enjoyed your work.

I could easily be thought of one of those "pick apart" folks, although most of the suggestions I make would be the same thing I would on a stage with actors, and a possible idea of how to add/subtract to the whole thing. It's weird to me, that musicians are the least interested in exercises that will help your inner vision ... it's like they are too married to the chords, and notes and DAW's to consider something independent ... thus a musician will not appreciate an exercise on improvisation that goes past 5 minutes, since after that you are out of your chops and won't know what to do ... so it gets dumped on the person that says it to try and make everyone think you know better.

"Knowledge" is an illusion ... there is no such thing and in the end, all it does is take over your own intuitive thoughts, and kill the side inside you that the majority of creativity comes from ... take a look at dreams and how different they are from your thinking ... that's one easy way to tell yo that you are not interested in another point of view that you have!

Yeah, I would like to be a part of this, but it would end up being like a director on the stage, helping folks better place themselves and express themselves ... but one has to be open to a lot more than your own noodles, and this is something that too many "musicians" do not have, so to speak ... "artists" do. What these could be is impossible to tell until we have something ... it could be as easy as one little thing, or taking an extra breadth before the next note is sung ... it's just a more visible expression from an audience point of view which most musicians think can only happen with fans.

But you, and others, simply doing what everyone else has already done ... a waste of time!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2024 at 23:05
Hi,

PS ... a small addenda ...

A few years back in the days of the Sonar message board, a couple of folks put together "The Coffee House Band" and the first piece was very nice, the second, kind of bloated and that was just about it as far as I knew ... 

After hearing the first piece, I immediately came up with a concept for an album cover ... in a lot of details, to make it look/feel better ... there were 2 choices ... broken cups of coffee on the floor and the band strung out all over, or the band stoned senseless with a cup of coffee in their hands trying to get it together to play again.

The lyrics were ... ok ... I thought ... though how they were used was not in sync with the music and how it was played and I addressed that in detail at least 3 times ... and how it could be cleaned up ... or possibly improved ... 

Sadly, I don't think any of the folks gave a damn ... and ignored the comments ... I didn't change anything, I merely tried to smooth out the transitions and the connections so it would sound better ... at least to my ear, but in the end, you were with a bunch of rock'n'rollers and it was the only music they knew and played ... any cleaning up or a possible improvement on its presentation, was not wanted or appreciated.

I really would not wish to see that here ... but I doubt, seriously, that they would want me with them for anything ... for them, it is like I'm trying to change things to my way, not theirs .... I never felt that it was my way and more than theirs ... it was the universe's as far as I am concerned and I'm not of the ego camp to think that my side is important and your is not ... but you have to explain things and justify your doing ... and this is the part most of them were not willing, or capable of doing.

It was on account of a teacher in Portugal that kinda took my learning for the piano ... she used a large wooden spoon to spank my hands and fingers each time I missed a note ... like it was not done when you were 8 years old! I think I've been the rebel every since! And ended up studying and working big time with experimentation and intuition in theater ... and then developed some improvisation work which is being organized into a book at this time. A couple of you folks here on PA have received a portion of it as an example.

I would love to share these with musicians ... but there was only one I could ever talk to about all this ... Daevid Allen ... and he thought it was neat to express the music of the spheres as he called it. His inspiration is in my heart forever!


Edited by moshkito - November 02 2024 at 23:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2024 at 07:55
"A little less conversation, a little more action", to quote Elvis. ;-)

I've just written three minutes of audio in a couple of hours and that could be expanded to a six minute track with another few hours work. 

How complicated does this have to be ? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2024 at 16:46
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

"A little less conversation, a little more action", to quote Elvis. ;-)

I've just written three minutes of audio in a couple of hours and that could be expanded to a six minute track with another few hours work. 

How complicated does this have to be ? 
Hi,

Ohh ... right ... Elvis was the rule and the idea ... what he wanted for "action" was something that was not possible at the time, visually as so much of his playing/shows were censored badly, and ridiculously so.

In the end, it is all about the sharing and the communication ... not the I did this and you did that ... anything to get things started is always good, as (in this case) this is just like an improvisation start up ... how do we get off the ground?

The answer is ... it doesn't matter how we start it up ... btw .... weird ... a true musician asking for action! Right ... let me sleep on that one!


Edited by moshkito - November 06 2024 at 12:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2024 at 05:27
Just to say, a lyricist has taken one of my bandcamp stinkers, played and produced it better (not a difficult thing compared to what I'm used to do) and is about to release it.

I think he jas done a good work with the music, but his lyrics stink.

Regardless this, I'm happy that sending the tracks via whatsapp has lead to something. It demonstrated that collaborative projects are possible. The result may stink, but it's another story.

His band will perform it live next week, I don't know exactly where.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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