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Prog in Norway: What's in the water?

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BrufordFreak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog in Norway: What's in the water?
    Posted: May 18 2022 at 18:38
How is it that a country with a population of 5.379 million (with a population density of 15 people per square kilometer) have such a thriving, high quality, proggy music scene? What's in the water? Will somebody please explain?

Drew Fisher
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 19:19
I think the productivity happens when the sun is just doing circles in the sky. I was there one time. Woke up at 3 am. Looked out the window. Bright and sunny outside and one guy was busy painting his fence. Another was working on his car. I closed the thick black curtains and went back to sleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 01:10
I think it is more that people outside Norway are simply just taking note of it.

I’m willing to bet there are many countries around the world making as much great music as Norway, but it is simply not being shouted about.

I don’t want to be the negative nelly here, and I don’t want to take away from all the great music from Norway, but I don’t think it is as unusual as people are making out.

Even on the Fennoscandian peninsula alone, Finland and Sweden have as much great music as Norway. Sweden has been recognised previously, and now Norway is getting its turn to shine. But all three have great musical history and heritage, and all three have a booming modern prog scene.

That said, I love so much Norwegian prog (from the classic through to today). 🇳🇴 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 05:44
Their jazz scene is damn fine too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 05:52
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Their jazz scene is damn fine too.

Absolutely. They have a fantastic jazz scene!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 08:14
Vikings have always loved prog. It goes back to the days of those great Nordic sagas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 10:51
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Vikings have always loved prog. It goes back to the days of those great Nordic sagas.

LOLClap Brilliant, Steve! Absolutely brilliant!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 10:54
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I think it is more that people outside Norway are simply just taking note of it.

I’m willing to bet there are many countries around the world making as much great music as Norway, but it is simply not being shouted about.

I don’t want to be the negative nelly here, and I don’t want to take away from all the great music from Norway, but I don’t think it is as unusual as people are making out.

Even on the Fennoscandian peninsula alone, Finland and Sweden have as much great music as Norway. Sweden has been recognised previously, and now Norway is getting its turn to shine. But all three have great musical history and heritage, and all three have a booming modern prog scene.

That said, I love so much Norwegian prog (from the classic through to today). 🇳🇴 


I'm not so sure, Nick:  The number of high quality albums from Norwegian bands that I've been collecting over the past 15 years seems disproportionate to those coming out of other countries--especially when I look at my End of Year Top Albums lists. I'll have to do some more thinking and spelunking about this, … 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 11:03
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I think it is more that people outside Norway are simply just taking note of it.

I’m willing to bet there are many countries around the world making as much great music as Norway, but it is simply not being shouted about.

I don’t want to be the negative nelly here, and I don’t want to take away from all the great music from Norway, but I don’t think it is as unusual as people are making out.

Even on the Fennoscandian peninsula alone, Finland and Sweden have as much great music as Norway. Sweden has been recognised previously, and now Norway is getting its turn to shine. But all three have great musical history and heritage, and all three have a booming modern prog scene.

That said, I love so much Norwegian prog (from the classic through to today). 🇳🇴 


I'm not so sure, Nick:  The number of high quality albums from Norwegian bands that I've been collecting over the past 15 years seems disproportionate to those coming out of other countries--especially when I look at my End of Year Top Albums lists. I'll have to do some more thinking and spelunking about this, … 



The key word is “seems”. And obviously it is subjective. But there is a difference between what is getting (media) attention, and what is out there. I honestly don’t believe that there are any more high quality albums from Norwegian bands than from other countries. Bands from that country are simply getting more attention at the moment.

But I am happy to agree to disagree. I have definitely noticed more attention being given to Norwegian bands and albums lately. But when you say the past 15 years, I suspect I have more albums I think are great from (eg) Finland, than from Norway.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 11:07
Last week, I checked PA's top albums from the last five years. 2017 till Now.   I planned on backfilling albums I missed. The top five albums gave me pause, because four out of the five were Norwegian. The fifth was Swedish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 11:36
Not the case for me, 3% of my collection from 2000 onwards have been Norwegian dominated by elephant9, Jaga Jazzist, Hedvig Mollestad & Panzerpappa. 

If I ignore UK & USA then the top countries for me are France, Germany, Belgium, Canada, Sweden & Italy before I get to Norway.

If I rank them in albums per 1MM population they are a much more respectable 2nd behind the UK

UK - 9.5 albums per 1MM population
Norway - 9
Belgium - 6
Sweden - 5.6
France - 3.3
USA - 1.9
Canada - 1.8
Germany - 1.1
Italy - 0.8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 13:07
My guess is that, thanks to their generous health care system and high quality of life, musicians aren't constantly scrambling for life's necessities as we are in the States.  

I'd love to visit sometime!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 17:21
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Not the case for me, 3% of my collection from 2000 onwards have been Norwegian dominated by elephant9, Jaga Jazzist, Hedvig Mollestad & Panzerpappa. 

If I ignore UK & USA then the top countries for me are France, Germany, Belgium, Canada, Sweden & Italy before I get to Norway.

If I rank them in albums per 1MM population they are a much more respectable 2nd behind the UK

UK - 9.5 albums per 1MM population
Norway - 9
Belgium - 6
Sweden - 5.6
France - 3.3
USA - 1.9
Canada - 1.8
Germany - 1.1
Italy - 0.8

Man, I've got albums from the four bands/artists you listed but also Wobbler, Motorpsycho, Shamblemaths, Funin, Stillehavet, Weserbergland, White Willow, Tirill, Caligonaut, Soup, Leprous, Green Carnation, Gazpacho, Seven Impale, Arcturus, Enslaved, Jordsjø, Ulver, In the Woods, Ihsahn, Airbag, Bjørn Riis, Major Parkinson, Kvazar, The Windmill, Needlepoint, Arabs in Aspic, Magic Pie, The Samuel Jackson Five, Circus Maximus, Kaukasus, Giant Sky, The Opium Cartel, Moleskin, Ivar Bjørnson & Einar Selvik, Himmellegeme, and they all have at least one album in my Year End Top Albums lists!
  
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 18:43
I think you're right. There is something about Norway.

I listen to many great bands from there: Caligonaut, Circles End, Dobbeltgjenger, Gazpacho, Giant Sky, Jaga Jazzist, Jordsjø, Krokofant, Leprous, Magic Pie, Major Parkinson, Nils Petter Molvær, Motorpsycho, The Opium Cartel, Retroheads, Todd Terje, Tirill, Tusmørke, White Willow, Wobbler.

If you're looking for an explanation, maybe you can look where there is NOT many prog bands?

For example, take a country with similar population figures: Togo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 00:14
Personally, although it was never the main point of the OP, population density is completely irrelevant, as a lower population density can suggest a population is more spread out than a higher one. For example, Australia has a population density of approximately 3, while New Zealand is more like 15. (These are from memory of when I was at school, so are no doubt now changed, but their accuracy doesn’t change the point.) But, Australia has a large part of the country where next to no one lives, and their population is in more dense clumps than that of New Zealand.

If you are going to use population statistics for wondering why there is so much music coming out from a country, then looking on a per capita basis is probably better than looking by density. Not that it is a particularly good way of looking at it, either, but it does work a little better,

I am definitely not suggesting every country has as much music coming out of it as Norway, so it will be easy to find countries which are not. I just think that Norway seems to be getting more attention, so it seems like there is considerably more coming out from there than other countries, when this really doesn’t seem to be the case, so much as more of their bands getting more attention. Writing lists of what you have doesn’t change this. I can write lists, too.n

The other thing is, of course, that once one starts to dive into the output of one country, it becomes easier to find more, and more, and more, and more, from that country.

Norway has a great number of high quality music, it’s true. But it’s not alone or special in that, and it’s number isn’t considerably more than many other countries with a great number of high quality music. (Ignoring the subjectivity as to what at high quality music is, as I am using that only because it was used by the OP).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2022 at 08:26
I think their culture is very conducive for prog to take a hold and flourish. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2022 at 10:16
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Personally, although it was never the main point of the OP, population density is completely irrelevant, as a lower population density can suggest a population is more spread out than a higher one. For example, Australia has a population density of approximately 3, while New Zealand is more like 15. (These are from memory of when I was at school, so are no doubt now changed, but their accuracy doesn’t change the point.) But, Australia has a large part of the country where next to no one lives, and their population is in more dense clumps than that of New Zealand.

If you are going to use population statistics for wondering why there is so much music coming out from a country, then looking on a per capita basis is probably better than looking by density. Not that it is a particularly good way of looking at it, either, but it does work a little better,

I am definitely not suggesting every country has as much music coming out of it as Norway, so it will be easy to find countries which are not. I just think that Norway seems to be getting more attention, so it seems like there is considerably more coming out from there than other countries, when this really doesn’t seem to be the case, so much as more of their bands getting more attention. Writing lists of what you have doesn’t change this. I can write lists, too.n

The other thing is, of course, that once one starts to dive into the output of one country, it becomes easier to find more, and more, and more, and more, from that country.

Norway has a great number of high quality music, it’s true. But it’s not alone or special in that, and it’s number isn’t considerably more than many other countries with a great number of high quality music. (Ignoring the subjectivity as to what at high quality music is, as I am using that only because it was used by the OP).


Good points, Nick, and of course we're all looking around the elephants in the world: 1) Norwegians speak/command English embarrassingly well and can, therefore, promote themselves better in the more consumerist Anglo-world and 2) Norwegians probably have a higher than average per capita income with which to invest money into musical equipment, studio time, album production and promotion, etc. Prog is, after all, a privilege available to the privileged.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2022 at 16:10
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Good points, Nick, and of course we're all looking around the elephants in the world: 1) Norwegians speak/command English embarrassingly well and can, therefore, promote themselves better in the more consumerist Anglo-world and 2) Norwegians probably have a higher than average per capita income with which to invest money into musical equipment, studio time, album production and promotion, etc. Prog is, after all, a privilege available to the privileged.
 

Actually, those were also my points... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mormegil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 06:10
Whatever it is, we DO appreciate it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 06:44
Originally posted by Mormegil Mormegil wrote:

Whatever it is, we DO appreciate it!

That's right. Thumbs Up

I don't see the point of this thread. Confused
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