John Carpenter (USA) for Electronic |
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Luis de Sousa
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 17 2008 Location: Wageningen Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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Posted: June 03 2022 at 12:41 |
As far as the legend goes, Carpenter ran out of a meager budget when producing "Assault on Precint 13" in 1976 and was unable to hire a proper soundtrack as planned. Having developed a taste and talent for electronic music, Carpenter took matters in his own hands. The result was such that for his next picture, "Halloween", Carpenter purposely composed the soundtrack himself. An iconic main theme song underscored the influence of the Berliner school in Carpenter's music. In the subsequent decades Carpenter would compose the soundtracks of many of his most acclaimed pictures, including "The Fog", "Escape from New York", "Christine", "Big Trouble in Little China", "They Live" and all the "Halloween" sequels. In time Carpenter ended up adding electric guitars and other human played instruments (in tandem with the Berliner luminaries at the time). Carpenter's music would influence many subsequent musicians and groups such as Portished, Zombi, Majeure or Umberto. In 2015 Carpenter released an LP titled "Lost Themes" gathering a series of scores he never used for motion pictures. A collection of short but dense songs that echo much of the tension and mystery Carpenter often manages on screen. "Lost Themes II" followed in 2016 and five years later "Lost Themes III" further enriched his discography. This LP trilogy is a unique set of works that beg for consideration into the progressive realm. "Night" from "Lost Themes" "Utopian Facade" from "Lost Themes II" Thank you for considering. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64352 |
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Really like his music, and that he was willing to be a filmmaker who knew what kind of music he wanted and how to generate it. Clearly inspired by TD and Goblin, he saw electronic music's potential. I own a CD collection of his film music but it's not currently available, just re-recordings by other musicians. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Man With Hat
Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
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lol
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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I don’t have a problem with John Carpenter being prog, though I can imagine a lot of the “purists” might. Not only can you hear the influence of prog artists in his music, but his own music has influenced prog artists in turn. Prog > Carpenter > Prog doesn’t automatically mean that Carpenter is prog, but it certainly helps his case.
Perhaps prog related might be a better home, but in order to get there, Carpenter would still need to be appraised by a genre team. So this suggestion is not as silly as it might seem. |
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Luis de Sousa
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 17 2008 Location: Wageningen Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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One wonders indeed if TD and Klaus Schulze would have ever recorded motion picture soundtracks without Carpenter. Or if Kraftwerk would have made a soundtrack for the Tour de France. Carpenter's songs are mostly short, but are dense and dynamic enough to grant consideration, imho. Not very different from what groups like Ash Ra Temple or Cluster were doing by the late 1970s. I hope someone at the Electronic team can lend some time to this. Thanks. |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 34788 |
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You might recognise this song by Progressive Electronic artist Mark Shreeve.....
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Gordy
Special Collaborator Folk/Eclectic/PSIKE/Metal Teams Joined: January 25 2007 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 3368 |
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I'm with Nick: Prog-Related sounds like a reasonable fit (Vangelis and Jarre appropriately reside there).
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 15006 |
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Kraftwerk began creating the music for Autobahn, the album that would initially define their most successful style, in 1973. John Carpenter's Dark Star arrived in 1974, but Tangerine Dream already had three film scores under their belt, beginning with Vampira in 1971. (Edgar Froese had scored a film even earlier, in 1969.) (Either way, once William Friedkin heard Tangerine Dream perform, he immediately wanted them to score his next film, Sorcerer.) |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64352 |
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Seems like the question is, do we evaluate film score composers, either as a subgenre of prog or as individual artists, for inclusion in this database?-- . Not sure but I think the answer is 'No not really' . |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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That doesn’t seem the question, at all, to me. How did you end up there? 🤔 There are far more film score composers with not a shred of prog in their music, than those who do. There are very few I would think warrant inclusion in the database, even under prog related. I can’t say it would ever have occurred to me to suggest Carpenter for inclusion in PA, but it didn’t take much reflection to work out why the OP had suggested them. As per my previous post, Carpenter’s music was very obviously influenced by prog artists, and there have been prog artists since who have been influenced by Carpenter, in turn. Prog > Carpenter > Prog does not mean Carpenter is prog, and I’m not saying that. I don’t think it is too outlandish to see Carpenter in prog related, but there is no easy way of getting him there. He would have to be submitted to one of the genre teams first, and prog electronic is obviously the most logical route. Who knows? That team might actually agree to his inclusion in PA under that genre. I doubt it, but their rejection is the necessary first step in looking to have Carpenter accepted as prog related. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64352 |
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^That's fair, the OP's post does merit a bit more consideration. The fact , as you point out, that there are far more film composers with no prog in their music than those who do would suggest Carpenter's lack of prog credibility, but at this point in his compositional career maybe he deserves another look. He's not rock by any means and that kinda counts when you're talking a prog rock database, even the prog-related section of it. If a team were to eval and reject Carpenter, I believe a Collab would then have to ask the Admin Team to vote on inclusion for Prog-related. That would be a higher hurdle to pass. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Without doubt! And honestly, I don't see Carpenter passing that hurdle. If I were to have suggested any film composer for PA, it would not have been Carpenter. I would probably have gone for Graeme Revell. Not just for patriotic reasons, though I guess I may well have a certain bias in that regard, but because he just has more prog cred, to me, than Carpenter. After all, Lustmord is already in PA, and the two have long been collaborators. I would not have a problem with SPK being added to PA - as they were easily one of the most progressive industrial and noise bands, as well as one of the most influential. More so, in my opinion, than Throbbing Gristle, who are in PA. Revell's biggest influences when he formed SPK were bands like Can and composers like John Cage. Lustmord (then still Brian Williams) joined the band in 1982, and has worked on and off with Revell ever since. He has classical music training, and is a multi-instrumentalist, and has always sought out new sounds to use within his compositions (for example, throat singing as an additional instrumental layer, rather than as a form of vocals). Revell has always stated his desire to change and progress styles between releases (which is evident both in SPK's discography, and his film soundtrack work), and that his overwhelming desire is to not sound like everybody else. He is still largely influenced by prog band and experimental composers, and (like Lustmord) is predominantly a progressive electronic and dark ambient artist. However, Revell likes to sometimes merge these sounds with classical instruments and arrangements, which creates a very interesting result. He has also taken that prog electronic and dark ambient base, and added to it brass instruments, giving an almost dark-jazz/doom-jazz/jazz-noir feel. Or he has gone towards a trip hop/hip hop vibe. This is not to suggest I want Revell in PA, so much as he seems, to me, a more likely contender than Carpenter, having a more obvious prog background, and contemporaries and collaborators who are already in PA. Honestly, the lack of rock isn't that much of a problem as it seems, when it comes to progressive electronic. There is a heck of a lot of music in that genre in PA that is not exactly rock. (And, again, since I have mentioned him above, I would mention Lustmord as an example of a progressive electronic artist that really has little to no rock). Progressive electronic is the logical place to suggest Carpenter for. It doesn't mean he will make the grade, but based upon who is already in PA (and by that i am not invoking that old chestnut of "if x is there, so should y be", so much as saying that there are already a great many artists who are not rock, per se, rather than any individual), the lack of rock shouldn't be as big of a hurdle as it would be for other PA genres. The hurdle for Carpenter, to my ears, is not the lack of rock, but the lack of prog. I don't think it is lacking in either, necessarily, but is it "enough" for PA. Probably not. Is is prog or rock enough for Prog Related? Probably so. BUT (and it is a big but), as you say, it is a far bigger hurdle to pass, to be admitted for Prog Related than it is for a PA prog genre. This has been an interesting conversation, anyway. Far more so than some of the old retrod discussions and arguments. |
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Online Points: 10045 |
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Alain Goregauer and Fabio Frizzi are already in the archives, so yes we evaluate film score composers for inclusion in this database. Of course we do.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 15006 |
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John Carpenter has recorded several albums of original (non-score) music since 2015. His collaborators are his son, Cody, and Daniel Davies (son of Dave Davies).
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