Possible Problem With Modern Prog |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
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Hi, Agreed. However, the "center of the cyclone" has to be better focused, and I think that a lot of these "young" bands, lack the cohesion, and internal depth required to create something different and get by and away from the "working/commercial" sound of things, and specially so in the present state, where anything that "sounds like" is automatically added to the ranks! You gotta remember that all the members of YES, JT, ELP, KC and many others were just over their teens, and very young 20's when they did what they did, and I think that it was the ability to FOCUS on what they hoped to achieve that made a difference ... not necessarily by itself, although a time and place helps ... for example ... progressive being a natural follow up from the Fillmore well known long cuts (will most of them EVER show up on CD? Fudge NO!) ... whereas in England it was probably a revolt against a lot of pop music, and its cousin, the blackguard called BBC ... that prevented a lot of new material from entering the fray for many years, and the attacks on many of those "pirate" radio stations is a well known and documented affair ... and no one, EVER, has trashed the BBC and their hidden involvement, and how those folks were paid to do the ugly stuff they did! Modern prog only has an issue in that too many of the folks, very clear here, are into the SOUND of the music, instead of the music itself ... so you ended up with even more carbon copies of more carbon copies, and there is always someone posting how great that guitarist is, or how great that drummer is, and if you break it down, it is so monotonic and badly designed and defined, to the point where the musicianship should be questioned and the group not added to the annals of "progressive wastebasket". Honestly, I would not, EVER, want to be a part of any Admin group voting for this or that ... because the sensibilities of many of those folks is to pigeonhole the material, rather than vote for its originality and idea/concept of adding them to PA simply to keep the list bigger and better than any other "progressive" (I like pop-gressive a lot), website out there! But it creates a serious issue for listeners. And the worst, is no thread about the band and its work, which ought to tell you that fans are either stupid, or they won't bother hearing something else. Got put words in on that new JT thread, of Genesis thread, or ... heaven forbid that we don't find a reason to trash Jon one more time! Again, too many of those threads are not about the "music" ... and thus, guess what you got in "modern prog" ... the same folks and sensibilities. But try to raise that level and a couple of folks in this board will immediately jump on you, and the cowardice behind the rest of the members to say that right thing is worse! Go ahead ... let the fans run the show ... the art will die a few days later! |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 41266 |
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^ hey Moshkito, can you post anymore without being rude and insulting someone?
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20178 |
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No he can't.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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MortSahlFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 01 2018 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 2627 |
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Here's something I just heard five minutes ago. Chicago's drums used to sound great, especially with Danny Seraphine playing them... Now, it just sounds awful. I honestly couldn't finish it. Maybe I'll try again right now. Now listen to this... It's like having a plate of great food. Then being fancy, "Let's add a bunch of things" and it's only worse. Reminds me of meals growing up, but enough of that. Roger Waters' last album had drums sounding alright. The entire album was compressed, but that's the enire thing, not the drums specifically. Sounds like they took a microphone and recorded them without computers, etc.... I think it's more of a chronological thing. In the 80s, many bands went with that awful 80s drum sound. The snare drum was so loud, as if every stroke and song was "epic", but then the electronic sounding stuff. Loud cymbals. They sound nothing like actual drums, whether it's watching someone else, or listen to my own playing. People usually mention brick-walling, which is to make every moment loud as possible. It feels like there's no space between the microphone and instruments. Jimmy Page always talked about distance, shades.... Of course, no one uses that method, because it sounds awful, but so many are forced to just sound like everyone, which to me, is the opposite of an artist. The artist creates their own path, and if others want to copy/follow them, fine, but to just be trendy, ugh... Cheesy keyboards that just sound (I'm making a face I can't describe), so corny. The jangly strat sound... Even the synths sounded bad, as opposed to Pink Floyd (or others) doing it just a few years before. Yeah, it's "easier" to bring a light keyboard, but that's for a band that can't afford a few dollars to bring in a real piano, electric piano... And the programming, click-tracks, quantizing of sounds.
Edited by MortSahlFan - June 15 2022 at 12:30 |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 16144 |
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I would suspect that most people who post on non prog music forums (let alone non music forums) are not very familiar with many (if any) post 70s prog bands. Let's face it. Most of the famous progressive rock bands (and thus the ones that most people know) are from the 70s.
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MortSahlFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 01 2018 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 2627 |
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I'll just add that I think it's natural for people to go with the probabilities. I do. I only dedicate an hour or so per week to listen to stuff I haven't before.. If I have a 40% success rate with the 70s, and a 1% success rates from the 80s, I'm going to listen to stuff from the 70s, because there's a ton that keeps showing up, stuff being uploaded, etc.
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 34702 |
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My Top 13 Modern Prog Bands
Abel Ganz Big Big Train Edison's Children Galahad IQ Jadis Magenta Marillion Mostly Autumn Pallas Pendragon Porcupine Tree Solstice Edited by Psychedelic Paul - June 16 2022 at 09:49 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
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Hi, It's not intended to be rude or insulting, but more of a challenge. I simply find it sad that you guys sit here and posturize me for not looking in the mirror and then you pull off exactly the same thing, but against one person ... because you might not be ... willing, or capable ... of saying things that need to be said in order to try and improve things. Gotta love all these "trumpistas" ... it's all they know, and continue to show a "progressive/commercial" front to their work. And it is even worse when those 2 folks are "Admin's" ... which makes me wonder what it really says about a new (and possibly) and different scene, simply because they disagree with it. Oh, really ... like Ian has not stated things worse than I have! But Ian is a God, and I'm a dog, not a person! Get ce-real!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20178 |
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Try being polite to people for a change and maybe you'll get less feedback. I see you say its a challenge but give it a go.
I'd suggest you leave political comments out of posts as that is just throwing gas on a fire. I love that you assume I'm not exploring new or different scenes. Around 50% of my purchases are new releases and practically zero of those are 'retro'. It's primarily avant, modern experimental jazz, post-punk and whatever else catches my ear. I'm pretty much always exploring. Considering you are always bashing Admins maybe you shouldn't be surprised when you get a response. |
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 41266 |
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so i guess you cannot after all. If you dislike this forum so much, I got a very easy solution for you. Walk away... leave us mortals alone, go back to your ivory tower...
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progaardvark
Collaborator Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 48654 |
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I like cereal. I practically live in a cereal bowl.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 34702 |
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Hale & Pace as "The Management".... Hale: "I don't like conflicts." Pace: "I don't like any kind of breakfast cereal."
Edited by Psychedelic Paul - June 16 2022 at 09:13 |
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Jared
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Hereford, UK Status: Offline Points: 17530 |
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The four in bold would also make mine, while I like most of the others and 20 years ago, Marillion, Jadis and Pallas would also have been in the list (which would have seen IQ at the top...)
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 34702 |
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^ Crikey! You just reminded me I forgot to include IQ in my Modern Prog list. I'd better take a Neo Prog IQ test in The Wake of that startling realisation.
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 41266 |
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so a band that has been around since early 80s is still modern prog?
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 34702 |
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Yes, mainly because Modern Prog is less controversial than labelling those 13 bands in my list as "Neo Prog".
Edited by Psychedelic Paul - June 16 2022 at 10:21 |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 41266 |
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not what I meant, it's been 40 years since IQ debuted. How is that modern (prog)?
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5091 |
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I like a lot of modern prog, but often when I re-listen to 70s classics I think to myself that somehow there was a difference in inspiration. I hear a lot of good music in modern prog, and much technical proficiency, but I can rarely find gems like those of the 70s. When I listen to things such as Long Distance Runaround, or The Lamia to name only two, I think to myself "how the hell does someone come up with such an original and brilliant song!".
The cultural environment surely had its very important influence. Then we have the fact that those who have stood the test of time were the best in their craft, and they became stars (if only for a few years), they could live from making music and they spent much time playing together and rehearsing and improvising and recording bits and pieces which later they developed into complete songs. Nowadays many of those who dedicate their musical efforts to prog have their day jobs to live from. They record ideas in their home and email them to the other members who add their contribution, but the magic is not the same.
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Zeph
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 16 2014 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 558 |
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Is it when a band made their debut that decide if it's modern or not or when the music is made?
Are newer IQ albums modern?
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 34702 |
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In a recent trio of polls I divided prog into three main eras..... Classic Prog Era:- 1967-1979 Neo Prog Era:- 1980-1999 Modern Era:- 2000-2022 Not ideal, but it works for me. |
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